How does your wife feel about it?

Concerning UA when my wife became a mother UA time by Harleys definition ceased and I mean almost completely. She breast fed and practiced the family bed for 15 years. We were almost never alone that whole time. We moved to a new area where we knew no one and the closest relative lived 3 hrs away. I am not sure it would have mattered, she almost never left the children even with Grandparents when they came to visit and where do you find an affordable baby-sitter qualified to handle 5,6,7 kids one being special needs? We came across Harleys HNHN about 5 years into childrearing but knowing what he taught made no difference in her behavior. I was not able to convince her to leave the children and go out with me until she felt our oldest daughter was qualified to handle it (and after our first visit to the marriage counselor) about 10 years ago. By this time we were having major problems. For the next 5 years we probably averaged about 7 hours per week and that only happened if I initiated it. So I have been dating my wife very consistently for 10 years and I have tried for years to get it up to 15 hours. According to my calculations, in the last 10 years there were only 22 weeks we exceeded 15 hours per week and they were ALL on trips away from home! And they were ALL initiated by me. This may help to explain my strong desire to get her away: it is the only way she has ever met my need for sufficient, pleasant UA time in 25 years. I understand that the time has to be pleasant for both. It would help if both were committed to the minimum time.

If you want to persuade her to do things with you then you should stop making selfish demands, stop trying to control her and present yourself as an attractive, fun, LOVING person. Trying to FORCE her to go on a vacation with you is not the way to do it.

Sell her on the idea of spending 15 hours a week with you, but propose to find things you BOTH like.

Ask yourself if you could ever get a woman to date you based on the things you have said about and TO your wife on this thread. I know, as a woman, I would run the other way. Nothing here would attract me. Do you think you could ever get a date if you sent a woman a note like this:


So why do you think your wife would want to do anything with you? Do you think that such a self centered, demanding letter would attract any woman? It will never attract your wife.

I don't think you are going to make much headway until you figure out how to offer enjoyable time to your wife. I definitely didn't.

So are you going to take her out on dates or not?

Did I forget to mention that we are home-schooling all seven kids completely through high school? To answer someone, she has been abusing me for years by practicing her own lovebusters. Have none of you ever heard of "snowbirds?" People from the north traveling to sun destinations in the winter months primarily to maintain their mental health. There are literally millions of them. My wife's parents and almost all of her aunts and uncles have been doing this for 20+ years. As for separate reciprocal breaks from the kids, this is something we have practiced for years. We were advised by health professionals, in regard to raising a special needs child, that we get regular respite from his care. Sometimes it is just not possible for both of us to take it at the same time. This is why I requested to go alone if she would not come with me, not to try to force her. Believe me, it is in her best interest for me to maintain my mental health. Concerning "my feelings" letter, I learn from Harley that she needs me to be completely open and honest with her in a loving way. I understand that I failed on the last part.It is a consequence of feeling forced to communicate while depressed and exhausted. As I stated above,and this is not a threat it is a fact, it is not in her best interest for me to allow myself to sink into depression.

Yes, you are trying to FORCE her to accept a very bad idea, taking a separate vacation. That is an attempt to control her by forcing your ideas on her. That will have massive destructive implications on your marriage that will last for years. Don't do it. As we also told you, Dr Harley recommends that you NEVER spend the night apart. Don't do it.

Do you want to have a good marriage? Then drop this beach vacation idea and focus on being an attractive husband. So far you have given your wife no reason to want to do anything with you. You are demanding, controlling, abusive and unpleasant. YOU WILL NEVER GET A DATE THAT WAY.

Stay away from the beaches. Be an attractive person. Ask her where she would like to on a vacation, if at all.

It is in your best interest to find a way to maintain your mental health that does not harm your marriage or upset your wife.

Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112 - 113

What about Resentment?

One of the most common objections to the POJA is that it creates
resentment when it�s followed. I agree; it does usually create some
resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed.
An illustration will help make this important point.

George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells
his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.

If George goes ahead and watches the game, he�s guilty of independent
behavior. He is not following the POJA, and Sue will be resentful.
When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call
her resentment type A.

If George follows the POJA and doesn�t accept Sam�s invitation,
George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something
because of Sue�s objections, I call his resentment type B.

Which type of resentment makes the largest Love Bank withdrawals:
type A or type B? The answer is type A, and that�s why the POJA
helps build Love Bank balances. I�ll explain.

When George violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel
the effect of the thoughtless decision (Love Bank withdrawals) for
as long as memory persists�possibly for life whenever the event is
recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is
limited in time. It lasts only as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable
alternative that is acceptable to Sue.

George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection
but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn�t invited to watch
football and doesn�t want to invite herself to Sam�s house, so she
suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football.
George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts
an end to George�s type B resentment.

Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops
the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those
with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference
because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may
feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in
their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully,
unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to
them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating
type A resentment.

We're homeschooling 8!

Did you realize there's more to the south than beaches? We live in the sunny south, and there's not a beach in sight.

And it's still a very bad idea for your marriage.

Don't blame her for your lovebusters.

HEY.

Why should we post to you when you ignore us and don't answer our questions?

So, are you going to start taking your wife out on dates?

I honestly thought she enjoyed and felt good about going to sun destinations with me. She has willingly gone with me at least a dozen times just in the last 3 years. This has me really confused. Does not this seem the least bit odd to anyone else? To help me establish this regimen just to yank it out from under me? Does that not seem at the very least unwise? What would I be if I was not feeling hurt by this? Would anyone else out there be feeling like I am if you were in my position? I do not understand why you are asking me if I am going to start taking her out on dates. I already stated that I have been doing that consistently for the last 10 years.

So now you know she does not have any desire to go anywhere with you. I understand you might feel hurt, but you have to look at this logically. She has explained that she wants to spend no time with you at all because of your lovebusters. It is much like getting an NSF notice from the bank. It might not be pleasant to get the notice, but the alternative is much worse.

Now that you know what the problem IS, you can start working on eliminating your lovebusters and becoming an attractive, appealing partner. Stamping your feet and amping up the selfish demands does not make you more attractive. It makes you LESS because it looks like you are trying to gain at her expense.


No.

Just last summer the two of us went to Europe and I thought she had a wonderful time. She talked about how great it was afterward and even talked about going again.

You have not been taking her out on dates 15 hours a week. You stated that perfectly clear. So are you going to start?

Do you own Lovebusters?
Are you going to eliminate demands, disrespect and angry outbursts?

Not really.

Will you go on antidepressants?

Is that supposed to be an answer to my question? Because I'm not seeing an answer there. I'm just seeing a bunch of your thoughts.

How does your wife feel about the beach?