My husband travels for work. He has made some very poor choices in the past while out of town and under the influence of alcohol. One of the agreements we made was that he would no longer drink alcohol out of town unless I was with him. He is taking a work trip for three days and three nights. He will only be working for about two hours for two of the days. A male friend of his has decided to go along on the trip to keep him company. They left today about lunch time.

I reminded my husband of his no drinking promise by text after he left. I did so because he and his friend will have a few beers when they get together. He has responded by asking me to consider an exception in this case, under the policy of joint agreement.

We are fairly new to Dr. Harley's concepts. We have been listening to the radio broadcast frequently for several months and we are working in a small group with the His Needs Her Needs workshop. We have not 'enacted' any of the policies or been intentionally working on practicing them. I am not at all comfortable with him drinking while out of town. I think he is not taking extraordinary precautions to protect himself, me or our marriage if he chooses to cast aside our original agreement. He says he would like to negotiate for this specific trip to have drinks with his buddy.

I really don't know how to respond to all of this. Honestly, at first, I didn't even think he was serious. Apparently he is serious and would like to negotiate. I don't see how we could negotiate an enthusiastic agreement because there is no way I will be 'enthusiastic' about him breaking his promise to me and shirking our no drinking agreement.

I am familiar with Dr. Harley's policies but don't have a lot of experience yet. I feel we are beginners and this is a huge topic to start. I hope someone here with more experience with Dr. Harley's policies will have some good thoughts to share.

Hi Mary, the general rule is that you should not negotiate anything that is bad for your marriage. And what is bad for your marriage is his traveling job. Dr Harley would tell you to never spend the night apart again. You wouldn't have this issue if he were home with you every night. Are you aware that is an extraordinary precaution?

Not spending the nights apart is the most basic and important extraordinary precaution.

What was the "poor choice" he made while intoxicated? Did he have an affair?

Is he an alcoholic?

There were other poor choices, but yes, he had an affair seven years ago and ended six years ago.

I don't believe he is an alcoholic.

Welcome to Marriage Builders!
The first thing that jumps out at me in your post is that your husband is travels for work without you.
Dr. Harley advises couples to never spend the night apart.

Then it is very definitely dangerous for your marriage for him to be travelling without you, no matter what agreements you have made.

So that is where I would start, by not traveling apart anymore. You can't have a happy, romantic marriage that is affair proofed any other way. So that is the first extraordinary precaution. What can you do to rectify that situation?

SEcondly, your husband should never drink again unless he has your enthusiastic agreement. That is the basis of the policy of joint agreement, never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. And if he has made poor choices under the influence, I would take drinking off the table entirely. It is a threat to your marriage. Why play with fire?

Since he is not an alcoholic, he should have no trouble whatsoever agreeing to never drink again. I am sure if he asked you to stop eating bananas because they caused you to behave badly, you would agree to never eat another banana. Am I right?

Thank you, Prisca.

Yes, obviously I realize that traveling for work is not ideal. I unfortunately have quite a bit of experience with that.

For the moment, I am not sure how to respond to his request to discuss an exception to our agreement per the policy of joint agreement. I really don't know how to proceed with this particular conversation.

WE do too, unfortunately. Just look around you and see the thousands of threads representing affairs.


There are no exceptions to the policy of joint agreement unless it involves life or death.

I want to emphasize that you are focusing on the wrong thing altogether. I see the bigger issue as the traveling job.

]
You should know that Dr Harley says alcoholics CANNOT abide by the policy of joint agreement because they will NEVER apply it to their alcohol. Just like your husband is doing.

Just so you know, normal drinkers don't have these types of debates, so I seriously doubt that your husband is not an alcoholic. A normal person will just stop drinking if it interferes in his life. An alcoholic looks for every excuse, loophole because he is desperate to keep it in his life. It is his FIRST LOVE.

if he is not an alcoholic, he should have no problem giving it up for life. Somehow I suspect he will not give it up.

MelodyLane,

Your comments, while they may have merit, are also very brash and hurtful. You don't know us, how far we have come and how much work we have done to get where we are today.

We have worked at many different programs and searched a long time to finally find Marriage Builders which seems to be the best. We have not idly passed away the last seven years doing nothing to change our marriage or circumstances.

A little empathy delivered with a little kindness would be nice. It is my first time here and now I feel completely shamed.

Thanks for your opinion.

Mary, the person hurting you is your husband, not MelodyLane. She is your friend and is trying to help you. She has not said one word hurtful or disrespectful or harsh or shaming to you, that I can see.

Is she your enemy simply because she is showing you a hard truth you don't want to hear?

MaryN, we have all come very far. And this program saved our marriages. That is not going to prevent me from telling you what it will take to save yours. You may not want to hear it, but why ask if you don't want to hear it? WE are not here to give you bad advice, but to help you fix your marriage.


I have much empathy for your situation and have shown my kindness by sharing solutions with you. I volunteer my own free time here helping others achieve great marriages using Dr. Harley's concepts. Hopefully, you will take the advice seriously.

The only exceptions to the Policy of Joint Agreement are health or safety. Your husband drinking a few drinks with his buddy doesn't fall under either of these categories. You are not enthusiastic about his drinking, and therefore he should not drink. No exception.

The way to find out if he is an alcoholic is to ask him to give up alcohol for the rest of his life for the sake of your marriage.

If he's not an alcoholic, he will not have a problem doing this.

**EDIT**

moderator's note: if you have an issue with other posters, please notify the moderators and let us handle it.

***EDIT***

Moderator's note: STOP

Mary,
I can tell that you care for your husband's feelings and that would sway your decision to negotiate your own feelings to suit his. It would be my guess as to how this behavior started from the beginning. Your giver is over riding your taker... good! Yet there should be a good balance between the two. But under no cicumstances like MelodyLane has stated should you hurt yourself to please him. DO NOT NEGOTIATE!

As an alcoholic myself, I would do anything to make excuses or negotiate so that I could find a way to feed my addiction. And even when drunk, you can never use the excuse that, I only did it because I was drunk, line. The courts will tell you really quick that it was your choice to get drunk in the first place. I know that really doesn't help...

MaryN-You may think Melody's words are harsh, but they are truth. My husband is an alcoholic. He left our 3&7 year old children home alone, multiple times, while I was at work to have his affair.That was over a year ago now.

He recently asked me if he could possibly try being a "recovered alcoholic" whatever the hell that lame phrase is supposed to mean.

I told him NO. Because he tried to use the excuse that "he only did it because he was drunk" (both the affair and subsequent leaving the children) I told him, then he should NEVER EVER want to drink again. HE should not want to ever put himself and our children in that situation ever again.

Thank you ManKeeping, for reiterating "I only did it bc I was drunk" is a BS attempt at an excuse.

MaryN, the travelling job is definitely a major problem, but so is your husbands inability to see his alcoholism. I was naive also. I actually remember that I sang along to the song "Nah, Nah Honey I'm Good" on the way home from work the nights my husband left our kids, I found out afterwards. I thought "my husband is like this guy, he may be an alocholic but at least he wouldn't cross that line"......dead wrong.


And, as another aisde, my marriage recovery is not happening at all IMO because my husband still refuses to take ownership of his actions. He wants me to let his "drunken affairs" off the hook.

Tinkluver, I started a thread for you in this very section of the forum .I would love to hear more and see you get some advice and support. I also have some questions for you. What do you think about posting there so that we don't interrupt this thread?