And to me.

Thanks, guys.

I just remembered that he recently came home with passes for me to go to one of the rec classes with him with his favorite instructor, whom I know fairly well. He asked me if I'd ever been to that rec place before. I'd been about half a dozen times with him over the year. He didn't remember that I had gone with him.

Could it be possible that he just doesn't SEE me anymore? Or he totally takes me for granted and this class is an obsession/addiction? He used to go surf for 3 hour stretches and we'd fight about it, after we had kids. I felt like a single mom then too, especially on the weekends. He would not give it up. But no other women were involved.

ETA: In no way was he inviting me to join him- he said the instructor must have heard that we've been meeting up at another place once a week to go together and wanted us to go to hers as well. He gave them to me because she asked him to, as far as I know.

Kat...
I think it would be good for you to plant a VAR in his office. The fact that he works alone gives ample opportunity for underground behavior. The fact that he went to the pool with the men, where there was more action makes me think that he is seeking outside stimulation...same thing with his class...sure hope it's not zumba.

If he hid the gambling from you, that alone signals blatant disregard and doing things behind your back. There IS some type of secret second life going on. Slip a VAR in his car and office, and give it a week. You'll get a pretty good assessment of the situation. Do not let on that you are snooping or suspect an affair. Just know that a guy gets sex, whether with you, another person, or by himself (porn). Even in his 40s.

Thanks Didn't Quit. I'll look up what a VAR is and I appreciate the advice and insight. One problem is I do not have access to his office by myself.

Yes, the fact that he's seeking outside stimulation bothers me a lot. And I do feel that not telling me what he's doing, gambling, is a sign of troubling behavior. He would say that I knew where the T was, of course he'd hit a blackjack table, didn't think he needed to run it by me but now he knows for future.

LOL about Zumba...(not it).

VAR = voice activated recorder. A lot of people place them in their spouse's vehicle, you can velcro it under the seat. It might be a better option for you than the office since you will not only need to put it in, but also check it systematically, and having it in his car would be more accessible to you.

Some things to point out:

1) How can you claim no other women were involved? Unless you had a GPS on the car, VAR on his person or PI following him, you don't know what he was doing. It sounds like your H has a long history of IB and some signs of a SSL. You have to stop assuming you know what he has been up to - this is for any poster who has a spouse who has a life that he/she wants to keep separate from them.

2) "could it be possible that he just doesn't see me anymore" - that is a passive action. The things your H is doing are not passive - he is actively engaging in marriage wrecking behavior. He is doing things for HIMSELF at your expense (not for your children, as you seemed to use to justify his behavior in an earlier post).

3) Try not to get so hung up on whether this is about another woman. The big MB picture is that a H that behaves like yours (lack of EPs, not interested in meeting your ENs, IB, etc) WILL have an affair, if he has not already, or will ruin your marriage regardless.

Both Susie and I were married to serial cheaters. They are quite different from other kinds of cheater and there are some (not lots ) of signs here that you might be married to one.

Generally they do not get that emotionally involved, the thrill is in the chase and capture. So they are very calculating and careful to cover their tracks. Mine would always leave his cellphone unlocked and his email open. He just never used either of those for his affairs. He used only cash for meals and gifts.

He would introduce me to many of his girlfriends. Of course I did not know that they were girlfriends. The story he gave them, I think, was that he stayed with me because he loved his children so much (in real life he ignored his children). Your comment that the women looked surprised made me remember this. They would look surprised. I imagine looking back on it that this was because I was younger and prettier than them.

His first affair coincided with his first major lie. I only realised that putting the pieces of the puzzle together 20 years later.

Kat, Prisca and I are listening to your show with Dr. Harley right now. We'd like to encourage you to listen to the repeat several times before the next show takes its place tomorrow.

We may seem like a bunch of skeptics. Nobody here is trying to upset you. However, we all came here with reasons similar to yours. We had no idea why there was a disconnect, but we gradually figured it out. Many different reasons, but the symptom was an independent life, quick excuses, gaslighting and a hidden inappropriate behavior.
Your husband is not putting all of his eggs in your basket, and he doesn't want you to put your eggs in his.

Maybe the reason for the class passes was because the instructor was trying to send a message. Maybe a round about way to give you a hint and help you shore up your husband's poor boundaries. Just a thought. Man or woman instructor?

What did you think of the show?

Did Dr. Harley talk with you more about snooping off the air?

You sound like a very sweet woman, btw, and I'm sorry you're going through all this. I know separation talk can be scary (been there!). But, if you follow the plan Dr. Harley has for you here, you're going to come through this shining -- either with a fantastic marriage, or on your own and happier than ever.

Thank you, Prisca, and to everyone who posted here to help me. Being able to come here and get your insight has really helped me see things clearly (though not easy).

Prisca, your experience that you've shared has really given me a lot of hope that even if it did come to that (separation), I'd get through it. My parents have a terrible marriage and are still together, so I fully believe that either a happier marriage or even being alone is better than suffering through a terrible M.

Dr. Harley helped me see how challenging the situation is, but it was interesting that he did not suspect infidelity or even discuss that. It was all centered around the IB and my negotiating skills. He really hit the mark in helping me figure out how to address both. I can only do so much- invite my H (like Prisca said) to join me for a happier, integrated M or make plans to separate by living independently myself and observing if he will meet my needs or not.

My H met me right after to go for a long walk and discuss. He was not happy about giving up R class, but he is going to start practicing from home. He said he wants to integrate me into his life, yet he agreed he sees the world differently. He has the theory Dr. H pointed out about how some men believe they aren't compatible with any woman and prefer to do their own thing and come together at the end of the day. He said he does see it that way, but he is open to changing to do things together we both enjoy.

Then he asked if grabbing his paddle board to go out for a while solo is off the table. I think it will be baby steps for us. I don't think he will ever be able to give up doing his own activities, but everyone here has helped me realize how important it is that he give up any activity that is causing me pain, and he agreed he will stop with overnights away and outside classes with OS.

It's a martial art, isn't it?

Notorious for the close relationship between teacher and student...i.e. affairs.

Yoga

Oh, good grief...I think that might actually be worse.

I know. What better way to ogle women's rears?

It is.

Are you going to snoop?

No, Dr. H doesn't see it being the issue, due to previous IB back when dating/throughout M. I would if H refused to give up rec activity tho.

My plan is to continue to show him how we can integrate our M. My H made plans w me today on how to do that going forward. And, like Dr. H said, my challenge now is to get him to change his theory, that we CAN get along and enrich our lives doing things together, making decisions and plans together.

As long as there are no more rec classes w OS and overnights, we can move forward. I do need to have a plan in place if he reverts back to class w OS instead of me and overnights away.

It IS an issue because the IB lifestyle LEADS to affairs. It is Dr. Harley that has taught us this, and that is why we have been telling you to snoop all along.

You need to snoop.