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#2883005 06/05/16 10:26 AM
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Good morning all. I posted a long time ago on here about my scenario and never really came back. I formed some connections on another website as I went through the process, but I'm returning here for some thoughts...
Since my last posting, the quick summary is, he got caught again, i stopped all efforts at trying, he left, he's still with her, we divorced. there's all sorts of drama in between, of course.
My life since has been very good. The girls and I have been enjoying many many outings that we didn't before because we were always waiting for him to be a part of it, but he rarely ever came home in time to do them. We enjoy time with old friends and new, I started a new job, etc. My older one is struggling some lately, lots of anger, finally starting to adjust and talk a bit about this. But day to day, there's a lot of drama too. He's been out of the house for 14 or so months, divorced about 6 months now. He lies to them a lot, he has given up time with them to hang out with OW (and he sees them minimally to start with)...he doesn't take part in their activities, he's just distant with them.
Now, when I am together with friends, etc., I feel like I talk about this all too much! It's not intentional, it's not like i want to give the divorce, the affair or his stupid ongoings any head space. But maybe he gave the girls a massive lie that day, I chat about it with friends, just like we all talk about the regular day to day things in our lives. When we talk about our kids/behavior/growing up, etc., I talk about her struggles lately, I get insight from them as well, etc. But as a lot of this stems from the divorce, of course, the divorce, his treatment of the girls, etc. comes up in the discussion.
Aren't my friends tired of hearing this crap? I understand we all have our own stories and we just chat about them, but I have to imagine that MY story gets tiring to them! I go into a conversation thinking "stay away from that topic!," then we start discussing kids activities/behaviors, etc. and it's sooo hard not to let it slip into a discussion of how this whole thing has played out.
How do you all get to a point where this isn't a topic of conversation on a regular basis????

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Originally Posted by Whatworld
Good morning all. I posted a long time ago on here about my scenario and never really came back.
Sorry your marriage ended.

Originally Posted by Whatworld
Now, when I am together with friends, etc., I feel like I talk about this all too much! It's not intentional, it's not like i want to give the divorce, the affair or his stupid ongoings any head space. But maybe he gave the girls a massive lie that day, I chat about it with friends, just like we all talk about the regular day to day things in our lives. When we talk about our kids/behavior/growing up, etc., I talk about her struggles lately, I get insight from them as well, etc. But as a lot of this stems from the divorce, of course, the divorce, his treatment of the girls, etc. comes up in the discussion.
Aren't my friends tired of hearing this crap? I understand we all have our own stories and we just chat about them, but I have to imagine that MY story gets tiring to them! I go into a conversation thinking "stay away from that topic!," then we start discussing kids activities/behaviors, etc. and it's sooo hard not to let it slip into a discussion of how this whole thing has played out.
How do you all get to a point where this isn't a topic of conversation on a regular basis????


You need to either let go or rebuild with your ex. Please don't stay trapped in this horrible twilight zone. I have friends that go on and on about their abusive exes and the triggers from that stuff are a nightmare for me. I try to avoid spending time around them. Talking about it is preventing you from letting go and nobody wants to hear about it anyway so stop doing it. If you want insight, stay around and learn about Marriage Builders. That will not only help you understand what went wrong but will also help you avoid making the same mistakes in a future relationship.

Above all, your children must never hear you say anything negative about your ex. Once exposure is complete (cold facts) the subject of his behavior must not be brought up by you either with or in front of your children. Answer any questions they have quickly and unemotionally and then change the subject.


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My children don't hear anything...this is all just adults.
The problem is the daily stuff. I've "let go" of him...a long time ago. I have a very different view of who he has always been, and it's been a long time since I've felt any sadness over the whole thing. The problem is the day to day stuff. Admittedly, some of it is just hanging out with my girlfriends and all us of sort of gossiping about the daily ongoings on our lives. Their gossip is the recent dumb thing their husband did...spent way too much on something silly, whatever the case may be, "I'm so angry at him, isn't that stupid?" Mine is "he just gave up his last 2 sundays with the girls to spend the weekend with his girlfriend, i'm so sad for the girls..." Now, it's just us sharing stories, and maybe there's nothing wrong with it. If there was, then there is something wrong with my friend venting her frustrations to me, too, right? But, as friends...we support each other. Maybe I am sensitive to the fact that my "stories" relate to the struggles between ex and my children, i don't know. Another example...we all discuss our kids behaviors and changes, etc. I share a story about my daughter having a meltdown recently and I fear it's anger building from all that's happened. I'm glad I raised it, because it was pointed out to me that all the kids are in meltdown mode because it's the end of the school year and there's impending changes and the teachers are really driving them now, etc. To me, it was a very worthwhile discussion, and I think to all of us as we each realized that it wasn't just our child acting up.

Now, my conversations are NOT about the details of what happened 2 years ago, bear in mind. That's history. The details are the day today occurrences. My daughters anger, his choice to not take children for the day, etc....when everyone gets into their stories of the day, it's just part of my day, my week. So while on one hand, we're sharing our daily stories with each other, on the other hand, I tend to feel like "oh here I go again!" as my stories don't entail the same type of stories that they are sharing (in which they are married, etc.). So, I narrow my question - how does one let go of the daily or weekly craziness that may well enfold my life until my kids are FAR more independent?? When my girls are mistreated or hurt again, how do you make yourself not bring it up in the next conversation with friends? We are all so used to sharing our lives with each other...but I don't want all of this to define me.

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You need to go to Plan B. Have you read about it?


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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i do recall the basics of Plan B from when I had read Dr. Harley's books way back when, but I'm not sure how I would apply that here? My only contact with exWH is to discuss children and even that is very very limited. (as in...what time drop off is, when support will be paid, etc.)
But I'm not certain how Plan B would prevent my daughter from having a meltdown (and thus, me from chatting how ways to handle, etc. with friends who have children of similar ages) or from my frustration for my children when he dodges the limited time he does have with them (I personally do a little secret "whoop whoop!" dance because I get to hang out with them then! but i feel awful for them bc I know it's unfair for them)? Please fill me in on that level...
I realize I've reached "meh" regarding the history of our marriage, but I certainly haven't reached "meh" regarding the impact it all has on my kids. I'm not certain I want to reach "meh" on that level because I would be capable of disregarding the burdens and frustrations they carry. It's like when your child is hurt, you would SOOO rather it be you than them. You WANT to carry their pain FOR them, so they are free of it. But finding a happy medium between balancing their pain, chatting with my friends and not letting the frustrations they carry define me/us is not something I've refined yet.

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How old are your kids?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Marriage Builders is not an a la carte plan. You can not mix and match it with ideas from other sources and come up with a course of action that is whole. Plan B is standard advice for a divorce situation. That will not work for you if you still desire secondary gain from the contact that you still have - i.e. your "whoop, whoop dance". At this stage of the problem, I don't think there is a lot more to suggest that will really make any difference.


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Ok...hang on here. This has nothing to do with a desire to gain from contact I still have. It is OK that I am always grateful to spend time with my children. AND it is ok that I believe it is unfair of him to not prioritize then.
This is not about mixing and matching ideas from various sources - this is about getting tips on how to handle scenarios- something I think most people on any scenario appreciate from others going through similarly ordeals. Plan B is limited/no contact or headspace, correct? I have a 2 and 6 year old. There is limited contact but there does have to be some contact. And even with no contact, I'd still be aware that he dodges his limited time with them and the impact that has on my kids would still frustrate me.

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Originally Posted by Whatworld
Plan B is limited/no contact or headspace, correct? I have a 2 and 6 year old. There is limited contact but there does have to be some contact.

Plan B is no contact, everything goes through an intermediary. Works perfectly well with a 2 and 6 year old.

Originally Posted by Whatworld
And even with no contact, I'd still be aware that he dodges his limited time with them and the impact that has on my kids would still frustrate me.


Once you are in Plan B and he has no further ability to contact you and realizes he cannot wind you up, he will cease mucking around with the visitation. This will be better for your children as well as taking you out of the twilight zone.

You should also cease discussing any aspect of your ex with anyone. Just stop.


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I don't think he's mucking it up though to mess with me. I think he's just selfish. So whether it goes through an intermediary or not, the schedule will still change. And i will still have my daughters walking in the door with their stories and i can't expect her to stop that or to stop have meltdowns bc she is having issues handling these changes. Maybe I need to do some more digging but I'm not sure plan b resolves everything here. I still watch her get angry and still ponder whether it's age or the changes, etc.
I agree tho, I need to stop wrapping his recent ongoings into conversations, this is all just a part of my life now though. Watching her meltdown bc of something that happened, etc and these are people with whom we all share our stories and lives and frustrations, etc. We are each other's go tos. I just don't want to go to them bc of him anymore. Practice practice practice right?

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Originally Posted by Whatworld
I don't think he's mucking it up though to mess with me. I think he's just selfish. So whether it goes through an intermediary or not, the schedule will still change.

Why do you have schedule changes? It is good for everyone concerned to develop a set schedule and stick to it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Whatworld
So, I narrow my question - how does one let go of the daily or weekly craziness that may well enfold my life until my kids are FAR more independent?? When my girls are mistreated or hurt again, how do you make yourself not bring it up in the next conversation with friends? We are all so used to sharing our lives with each other...but I don't want all of this to define me.

I guess I don't understand the issue. If your girls are being mistreated, you can't let that go, you have to address and resolve it the best you can. There is nothing wrong with talking about that with your friends. Am I missing something here?





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We agreed to be flexible with each other where needed. (I.e. Right of first refusal of one if us needs to travel for work, significant meeting, etc.). I try to avoid travel at all costs, he doesn't so there are often changes to address his travel. I sometimes learn after the fact or during, that the schedule was changed for what I view as inappropriate reasons - such as him going away for weekend with OW.

As for my friends, yes, on some level I think it's ok to discuss with friends, don't we all seek Input, etc from our friends on some level? But 1. I don't want to give the whole scenario too much headspace, 2. I dont want to annoy/drive them away with the drama of all this. But it IS hard to let go bc I appreciate their input about behaviors, etc. I feel better swapping stories. But do they want to hear these ongoing stories forever? No.

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Quote
There is limited contact but there does have to be some contact.
No, there doesn't.


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Originally Posted by Whatworld
We agreed to be flexible with each other where needed. (I.e. Right of first refusal of one if us needs to travel for work, significant meeting, etc.). I try to avoid travel at all costs, he doesn't so there are often changes to address his travel. I sometimes learn after the fact or during, that the schedule was changed for what I view as inappropriate reasons - such as him going away for weekend with OW.

This is where I would start. Being "flexible" with a wayward is a disaster. You and your kids need a stable visitation schedule otherwise you are placing your children at the whims of a wayward. If you have a standard visitation, then everyone knows the WHEN and can plan for it. Sure, there will be emergencies, but for the most part, there should be a set schedule.

Additionally, not having a schedule just keeps you in constant contact with him for absolutely no good reason. It is not in ANYONE'S best interest to be "flexible", especially your children.

Quote
As for my friends, yes, on some level I think it's ok to discuss with friends, don't we all seek Input, etc from our friends on some level? But 1. I don't want to give the whole scenario too much headspace, 2. I dont want to annoy/drive them away with the drama of all this. But it IS hard to let go bc I appreciate their input about behaviors, etc. I feel better swapping stories. But do they want to hear these ongoing stories forever? No.

To me, this is the least of your worries. I would focus on getting more stability in your kids' lives. They have had enough upheaval.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Whatworld
I don't think he's mucking it up though to mess with me. I think he's just selfish. So whether it goes through an intermediary or not, the schedule will still change. And i will still have my daughters walking in the door with their stories and i can't expect her to stop that or to stop have meltdowns bc she is having issues handling these changes. Maybe I need to do some more digging but I'm not sure plan b resolves everything here. I still watch her get angry and still ponder whether it's age or the changes, etc.
I agree tho, I need to stop wrapping his recent ongoings into conversations, this is all just a part of my life now though. Watching her meltdown bc of something that happened, etc and these are people with whom we all share our stories and lives and frustrations, etc. We are each other's go tos. I just don't want to go to them bc of him anymore. Practice practice practice right?

Whose meltdowns are you talking about? Your daughter is having meltdowns when her dad jerks her around?

Yes I think you absolutely can and should expect your daughter to stop having meltdowns. That is part of growing up. We all have horrendous things happen to us in life and get to choose how we respond. Responding with a temper tantrum is the two year old way of responding and doesn't help anything.

I had a wayward parent and one of the best things that ever happened to me was not having to visit her and have her in my life. Maybe you and your daughter can plan some fun things to do for when her father doesn't arrive for his SCHEDULED visitation. It IS scheduled, isn't it? It isn't all done on the fly?

How old is your daughter?

I have an extraordinarily happy life today and my wayward parent is not in it, THANK GOD.


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Originally Posted by Whatworld
We agreed to be flexible with each other where needed.

I would see your attorney and tell him this isn't working and ask to have the agreement modified.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
It is not in ANYONE'S best interest to be "flexible", especially your children.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Makes sense re schedule and we do have a "set schedule" but agree to switches as necessary (I.e. travel for work) and right of first refusal. He took it to the extreme though seeking changes in schedule to go away with OW though. He hasn't asked for a change since and I will be hesitant to agree to a change again if there's not a solid reason for it. I need to decide how to respond in the event it happens again.
On one hand- I say "no. We have a scedule in place and as you know, we shouldn't be altering it on a whim." But as Markos is highlighting, when there's an unreliable, incapable parent involved, less contact may be ok. And before anyone suggests that "bad husband doesn't always equal bad parent," let me make the suggestion that this doesn't apply here. So when he is making changes, I see that my girls end up with the solid reliable parent more and I'm not inclined to say "you can't change the schedule". To me, stability is me. It is not him. So I do tend to say "no problem" when a sshede change keeps them with me more. Maybe wrong, I don't know...but I'm still learning this crazy new world.
My children, by the way, are 2 and 6. So while my 6 year old needs to start recognizing and understanding her emotions for what they are, she is still only 6. Half the adults I know don't have adequate coping skills. I and her IC think she is actually highly developed on this front in that after she calms down, she very clearly see and understands what really set her off and is capable of discussing it with me far better than many adults could.

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I think it is GREAT when he vacates his visitation, but I would not allow him to veer from the schedule outside of that. [like getting them at varied times] I know that waywards are horrible parents, so you won't get an argument about that from me!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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