I have added it to my list and as soon as it has loaded in the archives I will post it.

Here they are.

Radio Clip of Indianswife's Follow-up
Segment #2

Thanks BrainHurts. So, a few days ago my husband wanted some help with the garage, and my 18 year old son was home from work because he sprained his wrist. He normally works full time, has his own car, is very responsible. However he and my husband have butted heads over how much work my son has to do around our home and farm. Husband went in and asked son to come help him right now. Son said he did not want to. Husband told son he no longer had laundry and shower privileges. Son got upset, packed his stuff and left. He has been gone for 4 days now. Husband did all this without my agreement. In fact, I expressly asked him not to do this. I have asked my husband to withdraw his punishment and apologize, so that things could go back the way they were. Husband does not want to. I want my son to be able to live here in peace. What do you all think?

Also, I stopped having sex with him after this incident with our son, and I notice that my husband is now very careful not to show me any affection. He says that since marriage is contractual, if I am not meeting his need for sex, he should not meet my need for affection. What is your response to that?

I think I would agree with him and say "You're right, husband - marriage is contractual, and I don't feel enthusiastic about meeting your emotional needs when you are engaging in independent behavior and doing what you want with our son no matter how I feel about it, and when you are refusing to meet my need for affection. In fact, I don't think our marriage can survive if you continue to behave like this. Do you want me to feel in love with you and feel enthusiastic about making love to you? If so, the way you are going about it is completely wrong, because you are not doing things that make me feel good - you are behaving in a way that disgusts me. Marriage is about making each other happy and you are choosing to act in ways that make me miserable. If you want us to stay married I am going to need you to quit running rough shod over my feelings and doing whatever you want, and start meeting my emotional needs, because otherwise, what we have now is not a marriage at all, to me. Would you like to contact Dr. Harley together and get some help?"

In other words, call his bluff: "Sure, marriage is a contract, great idea: YOU GO FIRST."

That's absolutely in keeping with Dr. Harley, by the way. According to Dr. Harley, in most situations, the husband needs to be the one doing the pursuing. That means he needs to be meeting your emotional needs and meeting them well in order to expect reciprocation, rather than expecting you to go first and meet his. When something has gone wrong, the husband gets to be the pump primer to get things started again. The wife can't do it.

When I showed him this he begins to argue that I have not given important information. He began to argue that he talked to me before he talked to son and I would not negotiate with him. So I interrupted him, saying I do not want to argue, I just wanted him to hear this. He got angry and said I have made the discussion very unpleasant. Now what?

Now he has left. He informs me he is going for some recreational time and will join me in town later. He wants you to know that he is not showing affection because he does not feel anything towards me, not because of sex. I did not ask him how he would feel if I went to see my counsellor today that he does not need to ask how I feel about anything.

I'd say tell him "it's up to you - if you want to turn this around you can have a talk with Dr. Harley about how to start making me happy so I will be in love with you and enthusiastic about meeting your emotional needs again. If you don't feel like doing that, it doesn't seem like we have much of a marriage."

Indianajordan, if you are reading this, please pull your head out of your anus and get back on this forum or back in touch with Dr. Harley. The first Marriage Builders is to not be a horse's butt to your wife.

My wife and I both think your husband needs a healthy dose of the speech Dr. Harley recommends in this article:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

The letter from Dr. Harley there is addressed to a formerly wayward wife, but I think it definitely applies in your case. If you aren't certain, please feel free to run it by Dr. Harley and see if he thinks markos's suggestion is a propos here.

Here's how the speech goes:

" I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. ... if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

Your husband needs to step back and analyze his strategy, because he has set himself up in such a way that the only possible outcome is for him to lose. What is his best possible outcome? Reluctant SF? Compared to a romantic relationship, that result is a total failure.

Today he started with "ok, you're in charge, tell me what you want me to do, you are in control". Then on to "you've read about how men get when they haven't had sex for too long" and then silence. The comment about an adversarial relationship resonated with me, that is how it feels. It seems no matter how much I try to be giving and not so sensitive to things, it is not enough and not good enough. He has said a few times that he feels trapped so I wonder how can he be nice and pleasant to someone he views this way? Honestly, the way he treats me and talks to me why am I still here?

Wow, he really knows how to chat up the ladies, doesn't he? With lines like that he could get anyone into bed!

Is he nuts????

I wouldn't be.

Charming.

Wow, how turned on you must be! Yuck!!

That silver tongued devil!

Interesting observations about my husband and his threats of an affair. I have thought for some time that the message is stronger, that he actually is determined to have an affair. He keeps telling me "needs will not go unmet (HNHN)". At the same time he makes clear that I don't meet his needs well and even if I start now, he will always remember the 20 years where I was not. The masturbation stuff over the last 5 years was a trial run to see if he could pull off a secret life. I see the handwriting on the wall.

iw, what precisely are you referring to when you say "husband did all this without my agreement"? What "all" did he do?

What did you "expressly ask him not to do"?

What is the punishment that you wish to be withdrawn?

H went to son (who had a sprained wrist) and asked him for help in the garage. When son declined, saying he had other plans (laundry etc) H said he would have to take away privileges. (this is an 18 year old who works full time, has his own car and pays his own bills. He lives here and does some regular chores like everyone else). H then requested his keys for the laundry and shower facilities we have in another building.

I had requested H not give a punishment for not doing what H wanted him to do. I requested positive motivation or an agreement with Son to elicit his cooperation. I have been able to do this with him. He is a reasonable person who just doesn't want to be threatened. H wants to be able to say "do this" and have him do it immediately and then mete out a "consequence" if he doesn't do it. Fine for a 10 year old but not 18.

I want H to apologize to Son, assure him he will stop threatening and ask him to come home so we can start again from before Son left. I would then be willing to negotiate how things should be handled going forward. Son wants to be home but is not willing to put up with his Dad's " do this or else" attitude. Come to think of it, neither am I.