Hi all. First post. Small amount of background....my husband (20 years in Nov.) has a congenital, degenerative heart condition. No one knows how long he'll live as it's very rare. He just had surgery after declining for some time on May 20 for a new pacemaker which should help with heart pumping. He's not bed ridden...works 35 hours a week (sometimes more) as a driver (been with the company 21 years). Can exercise (walk and bike) But still, his health has defined and designed our relationship from the beginning. It's always hanging over his head that he may not be around.

So....Before the surgery, in October of last year, he was declining and worried. That was his state of mind.

A friend of his (from child hood and one I don't like) had a business trip in San Francisco. Knowing that my husband always wanted to go, he said, why don't you come. I'll use my miles to pay for your ticket and the hotel and some food is included from my company. I only have to have a couple of meetings so we can do some sight seeing.

Now....my husband has talked about this trip for a long time. And wanted to go as a family but it's expensive as we live on the East Coast so it's a trip we need a couple years to plan.

So he has an opportunity to go for free or possibly never go (if he dies).

That's his thought process.

I see it as, you'd rather go without me than never go??

We talked it out. I cried. End result is, do I want him to be happy and do things he wants to do? What if he dies and never goes?

So he went. It's over. It's been since October. Time to move on since there's nothing to be done about it.

But hearing that country song ....

And if I never get to build my mansion in Georgia
Or drive a sports car up the coast of California
Oh, if all I got is your hand in my hand
Baby, I could die a happy man


And I cry and cry. Stupid. I know. But I feel like that's not my husband. That I'm not enough.

If the trip wasn't free, he wouldn't have gone. I try to think if it was any other friend would it bother me as much maybe not. But...here we are.

How do you get past something and just leave it there and move on?

Welcome to MB.

Have you read about POJA (policy of joint agreement)?

And resentment type A and B?

This is exactly why Dr. Harley recommends AGAINST sacrifice. The person who makes the sacrifice always remembers the sacrifice with resentment. The more sacrifices you make the more resentment and the more unhappy and incompatible your marriage becomes.

Dr. Harley recommends following the Policy of Joint AGreement, never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse.

Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112 - 113

What about Resentment?

One of the most common objections to the POJA is that it creates
resentment when it�s followed. I agree; it does usually create some
resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed.
An illustration will help make this important point.

George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells
his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.

If George goes ahead and watches the game, he�s guilty of independent
behavior. He is not following the POJA, and Sue will be resentful.
When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call
her resentment type A.

If George follows the POJA and doesn�t accept Sam�s invitation,
George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something
because of Sue�s objections, I call his resentment type B.

Which type of resentment makes the largest Love Bank withdrawals:
type A or type B? The answer is type A, and that�s why the POJA
helps build Love Bank balances. I�ll explain.

When George violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel
the effect of the thoughtless decision (Love Bank withdrawals) for
as long as memory persists�possibly for life whenever the event is
recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is
limited in time. It lasts only as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable
alternative that is acceptable to Sue.

George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection
but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn�t invited to watch
football and doesn�t want to invite herself to Sam�s house, so she
suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football.
George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts
an end to George�s type B resentment.

Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops
the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those
with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference
because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may
feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in
their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully,
unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to
them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating
type A resentment.

Thanks. I've read it. He hasn't. Since we're here, now, this particular situation won't benefit from it. In 23 years it's never come up and I can't imagine it will.

I just am trying to move on and figure out a way past it.

What would you do if Dr. Harley told you he doesn't tell people to "move on" and "get past" things?

I would say he is right. Up until yesterday, I couldn't reach my husband. Since about September ish of last year he's been off. His declining health had put him in a state of mind that he was going to die.

Yesterday, we (well I started it), talked about it all. Everything. I said everything in my heart and head and told him he was going to lose it all if he didn't refocus to what's important. If it's still important to him.

I said for months (now, for 23 years we have had a wonderful loving relationship with no issues ....) he had been so concerned with "good enough" that he forgot what we have and should have. He was concerned that everyone else thought he was a good husband (Ah facebook) but not the one that really matters. Our marriage has been wonderful because we have high standards and don't settle for good enough. Or doing enough....I told him he needs to keep his eyes on his own paper...and like a light bulb switch...he was back.

He and I were crying. He said how he went a little crazy worrying about what everyone thought of him.

Did you ever see the movie Can't Buy Me Love (80's movie). Anyway this dorky kid pays this popular girl to pretend to date him so he gets popular. Then she falls for him but he is mean to her because he's so concerned with all the popular kids and girls and looking cool. Anyway, my husband had a rough childhood. Poor, abusive, alcoholic father that disowned him when he was 9 ish? Anyway, he was an angry teen and wasn't the best kid and was sort of jerky in HS and now he's not. He's grown up to be a wonderful, charitable man and great husband and father (he says because of me). Friends from highschool are paying him attention on FB (my husband is a writer of stories and they are very funny and now popular) so he got caught up in what everyone else thought of him instead of what I thought of him.

I talked about the trip and how even though it's over, I am still so hurt over it. That he would rather do/see something that he always wanted to do without me instead of maybe never getting to do it. He said he couldn't say how sorry he was enough and that he regrets it so much and wishes he never put me in that position.

Hours of talking and crying and reconnecting. Then we went for lunch and a walk on the beach and continued to talk.

He kept asking me if I had anything else I need for him to hear. That he'd been a [censored] for months and selfish. All day I just let everything pour out. It was cathartic.

We've always prided ourselves on our ability to communicate but something snapped in him and then I became that textbook hardened, resentful, cold wife.

He thanked me for continuing to bring him back. For not giving up. For letting him come back.

So, I would say that I wouldn't have been able to get past this if we didn't have that talk.

Thank you everyone for your replies and concern.

So you had this talk yesterday, and today you would say you are now able to get past this? I'm puzzled why you didn't talk to him about this before this week.

How will he behave differently if another dilemma comes up? What if something presents itself again, that he'd really like to do, that you are not enthusiastic about?

And what is he going to do about the fact that he is getting his ego stroked on Facebook?

kmac, thanks for the update. I believe these problems could be avoided in the future if you follow certain rules as outlined in the MB basic concepts. My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself with the program, using His Needs, Her Needs and Lovebusters. Every couple can "communicate" but it doesn't make your marriage a happy, romantic relationship if there are no rules in place. Even the best "communicators" end up divorced if they don't follow these rules.

For example, the policy of joint agreement: never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. If you and your H had followed this rule initially, you wouldn't be so upset. The second rule that applies is the policy of radical honesty. You did follow this rule when you told your husband your feelings about the trip. That is good, but "hours of talking" about it is not good. You can read about the basic concepts here: Basic Concepts

The entire goal of Marriage Builders is to create a romantic, passionate marriage. This is created by following all of the concepts, but most especially by meeting each others intimate emotional needs and scheduling 15+ hours per week of undivided attention. When couples follow these guidelines, they have a romantic relationship.

Your initial question was how do I "get over" this. You get over it by putting a rule in place so it doesn't happen again and by creating a happy, passionate, romantic marriage. You aren't going to forget it happened, but you can change the environment in which it happened.

Dr Harley explains his approach in his article "When should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem.""

continued here

I tried talking to him before many times about it and other things and wasn't received. Since about October (Septemberish) things have been off.

The title of the thread was for pointing out the special circumstances of the situation. If you've never been terminally ill or facing a chronic degenerative situation where you stare down your own mortality, it's certainly imaginative, at best, to say what you would do. I'm not excusing his selfishness for a bit but I don't claim to know what he's going through.

My husband was born sick. Did not have a normal, healthy, active childhood. He was always in the hospital and was restricted from normal kid things. People with his condition don't live long. That's our reality. For the first 18 years of our marriage, my husband selflessly, worked 2 and 3 jobs so that I was able to stay at home and raise our babies. He got up at 3 am and wasn't home until midnight. Sometimes napping in his car for 1/2 hour before next job.

Last year (Summer time ish) we met with transplant coordinators. There is high likelihood that he will need a new heart (and liver may also be an issue as chronic congestive heart failure has caused fluid overload and problems with his liver now). There is also a high likelihood that his condition will decline too much that he can't have one. Or that there won't be one available...given the organ shortage. So last year, he was hit in the face with his own mortality.

I didn't post this thread to have him (or I) judged. I tried to give some background so people would understand that our situation is unique. He has stage 4 heart failure. And a wife and children and he's scared. He had a [censored] childhood and now has a good life and he doesn't want it to end. There are things he hasn't done and he was comfortable with us and his kids are great so he focused on himself for a while. He realizes that it didn't help anything and made us bad for a time. People make mistakes. Our marriage hasn't ever been bad. We've gone through so many things that have made us stronger and more supportive of each other. Deaths, family separations, our child was molested.....

And as far as what will happen when another situation comes up? Well, if the dr finally says he has to start preparing his final preparations, he has already told me that he would never go anywhere without me again.

The trip wasn't his idea. The friend bought and paid for the tickets. It was a done deal before my husband was even asked. His friend was trying to do something nice for his best friend of 30 years before he died.

Again, extenuating circumstances. He didn't just go to a friend's house and leave me home because he wanted to watch the game.

And the ego stoked on FB comment....I suppose he's going to manage it. Like actors, and performers....some people like the attention their work brings. My husband happens to write. His stories are presented on facebook for his friends and family. My problem wasn't with that happiness he gets from that. My problem was that he forgot what was first. In all things. He doesn't need to balance. He needs to put us back at the top and everything else is not as important. He's done that for 22 of our 23 years together. I'm more inclined to believe he's capable of returning to our regularly happy, in love, supportive marriage than I am to him not fixing these past few months.

And it's ok if you can't imagine acting like that if you were dying. I've thought the same. But the reality is that we don't know. They have support groups and experts in this field that say it happens.

I've never been one to settle for mediocre or excuse bad behavior because that's how they are...which is why I tried every day to reach him and let him know that how things were was not ok.

He's always risen to the challenge and I believe he will continue.

Thanks. We didn't talk about that one thing for hours. LOL We talked about everything for hours. Things he couldn't hear for a few months even though I was saying them. Things that I missed. Feelings, etc.....All things.

Again, we have never had another situation that he did something (or I did something) that the other wasn't happy about. Never. I was drawn to this site because, without actually knowing, we've done these things for years. My husband is semi retired (medically) so we do have lots of time together.

I do appreciate the comments. But I think there was not enough consideration given to his illness. That was why I titled it that way and gave background.

If, for example, "Sally" got a phone call that informed her that her mother was tragically murdered in a home invasion. "Fred" came over to comfort his wife. "Sally" freaked out and screamed and cried and pushed him away throwing things in the kitchen. Would it be ok for "Fred" to call out "Sally" for her angry out burst. Or ignoring "Fred's" efforts to love her, there by withdrawing from his love bank? And what about when Sally says she needs to be alone and gets in the car to leave? Fred doesn't want her to. He wants to take care of her and he's not enthusiastic about her leaving. Is that a violation of the POJA? Or are there extenuating circumstances that sometimes, people don't act the same way that they normally do under unique, painful situations?

I know my example is extreme. But my husband's is too. I don't know anyone who goes through what we've gone through. I have 2 people somewhat relatable (1 who's husband has cancer and it's bad and 1 who's husband had a stroke and has cognitive differences she now deals with). Things are different here, for us, than in a normal relationship. They just are.

Some days my husband can walk around and do stuff like normal. Than all of a sudden, he can't make it to the couch to sit down.

He has thoughts that are solely about himself. Because of this. It's different. That's all I can say.

I don't understand your purpose on this board.

In your first post, you appeared to be very unhappy with your husband's behaviour, and it seemed that you were seeking Marriage Builders advice (since you came to the Marriage Builders site).

You've been given that advice, and your response has been to come back and berate us for not being understanding of your husband's illness, and not taking into account his extreme circumstances - for setting standards that are too high for the particular situation in your marriage.

"I do appreciate the comments. But I think there was not enough consideration given to his illness. That was why I titled it that way and gave background. "

Not only have you rejected what we offered, you've told us what we should have said instead. But this is what I don't get: if you had the right answer and attitude all along, what were you looking for here?

No, we gave full consideration to your husbands illness. Did you disagree with the advice that was given? If so, then explain how. I won't address your exaggerated hypotheticals, but I will address your specific situation if you need help understanding Dr Harley's principles. I agree with Sugarcane that it is puzzling that you came here and asked for advice if you didn't want the answer.