None of this is confusing to us. It is just a distraction to following the plan we outlined. You need to understand that her mentality is that of a falling down drunk as long as her affair is active. It is an addiction just like alcohol addiction. Her moods will swing wildly up and down. Your best plan is to ignore it and focus entirely on your plan.

You should be 100% focused on getting the evidence of the affair so we can help you save your marriage. how is that coming along?

I cant find a P.I in this area. I put a VAR in her car tonight. I havent had a chance to get her phone long enough to go through it. I have nothing at this point but a hunch. I have been keeping an eye on suspected OM's house at times when she isnt home. Nothing so far. She just took a shower and went upstairs and text me to tell me she is sleeping in the upstairs bedroom tonight. This hurts

Keep at it!! That is a great start. Another thing you will want to get is a semen test kit: here you just have to get ahold of her underwear to conduct the test.

Im honestly not convinced of an ongoing affair. She seems to resent me about letting her sleep with her ex. Thats one of the big things she is telling me she cant forgive me for. I put pressure on her and she hates me for it.

This is why you need to get the evidence. You shouldn't be convinced of anything without evidence.


As she should. That was a disgusting, uncaring thing to do. But it doesn't lead to a divorce.

We can help you, but you need to put aside your own biases and find out what is going on here. On a FACTUAL basis, rather than a speculative one.

I dont know that I have enough time. If there really isnt an affair and she is just broken emotionally, i could sit around trying to find evidence of an affair that doesnt exist while not addressing the issues she is presenting me with. Right now I have no evidence of an affair and a long list of things that have led up to this point. Why shouldnt I address what she is feeding me meanwhile setting my traps to discover an affair if there is one?

You should do both. It is good to address her issues, but you need to - PRONTO - get evidence of the affair. There is every sign of an affair here, but in order to turn this around, you need the hard evidence. You say "right now I have no evidence" and we realize this. This is why we are telling you to get evidence. The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to save this.

Ok. Well i am doing everything I am capable of to get evidence of an affair. In the mean time what do I do?

Our text messsages tonight:

Me- I really want to talk to you and find out what you are feeling. I felt like we had a good day yesterday and im trying to figure out what happened since then. I can tell you have something on your mind. I dont want to pressure you but im ready to listen when you want to talk.

Her- I told you i wanted a divorce and you asked if we could separate instead. And neither has happened. I feel like you are trying to sweep this under the rug and move on. And I just can't do that. I don't trust anything anymore. I can't even enjoy you helping with {daughter} bc I'm trying to find your motive. That's just the truth. Sorry if it hurts.

Me- Im honestly not trying to sweep anything. Im just working on being a better husband and dad. I dont want to sweep anything under the rug. Im begging you to consider working with me on our marriage and give it another chance. I asked if you wanted to try separation instead of divorce and you said you would think about it, so i havent pressed you for an answer. I figured you would decide when you were ready. I want you to take all the time you need. I love you and I want to find love, trust, and respect with you again. You mean the world to me {wifes name} and I am fighting for us because I believe in it. I believe in you. And i want to be a family.

Her- I just feel like this is the same thing over and over again. And I'm tired. And I don't know if I can do it anymore. Or if I want to. And if we separate where are you going to go? I can't go anywhere right now. There are a thousand things going through my mind.

Me- If you want my motive, its blind faith. Im working on improving myself to be the husband you deserve and the father {daughter} deserves. I have been neither and thats come to an end. Im turning a page in life and embracing the blessings I have.
You dont have to do much except sit back and watch. You are already an awesome mother and a beautiful person. Everything I want in a woman is right here in front of me trying to walk out because I have taken it for granted. It kills me. I want you to be around to see me for who I am becoming. If we split up you wont be around to see it.

Her- But this is still about you. And that's what I'm irritated about. I appreciate the changes you are making. But I'm waiting for things to not go your way, you snap, everything is my fault and you get pissed. I don't want you to do these things for me. They should be for you. What is in your mind for separation?

Me- Im sorry if im making it sound like its about me. Its not. Your feelings and needs are equally important to mine. Im just saying i cant show you the husband you deserve if you arent around to see it. Everything else is just on me. Im not saying separation is the only alternative to divorce. There may be other ways to work through this. I want you to know I am committed to you and to our marriage 100%. I have more work to do than you do. Thats why it sounds like this is about me. In my mind a separation is about cooling off and clearing our heads about our marriage. Going to counseling together weekly to discuss things. Keeping open lines of communication, not seeing other people, and having the goal of coming back together.

Her- I don't know if I want that. I just know that living together right now is hard for me. You keep asking me what's wrong and that's what it is. There, I said it.

Me- {wifes name} I know you are broken. I know you are tired. I know you are exhausted. I know you are hurt. I should never have tracked your car. I should never have asked you to sleep with {ex bf}. I should never have gotten upset about keeping our daughter while you go out with your friends. I could make a list a mile long. Im so so so sorry. Thats all in the past. My promises may seem empty right now but in time you will see. I promise to never hurt you again. I love you so much this is destroying me inside.

No reply. She went to bed.

First off, you can stop with the relationship talks and focus on being as pleasant and inviting as possible. The conversation you tried to have above was very futile and unpleasant. It only pushed her away. Simply let her know you love her, be as attractive as possible and don't try to force any deep relationship talks. It just makes you look bad. Don't try to reason with her, just be pleasant and inviting.

Do you have an anger problem?


Hopefully you understand this was the wrong thing to say? There is nothing wrong with tracking her car. Don't say that now, but in the future you should know it is not appropriate to apologize for snooping on spouse who is obviously hiding something. That is out of line.

You might find this thread very helpful: here If you can follow a plan you can likely end up like him.

I would let her know you are not interested in divorce OR "separation." You can't claim to be fighting for your marriage and say you will agree to "separate." That is not logically consistent. The best stance is to just to say you don't want either, you want to work on your marriage.

Pleasant and inviting has been my strategy for the past couple weeks. Im hearing her say she questions my motive for this transformation and doesnt put any stock in it. This really is the first "relationship talk" we have had since she asked for a divorce 2 weeks ago and we had some dialogue at that time about the state of our marriage. Ever since then i have made an honest and conscious effort to be as positive, optimistic, easy going, helpful, and happy as possible. Have not brought up feelings or relationship once until tonight and it obviously didnt go well.

Honestly this is good advice. My suggestion to separate was my initial response to her asking for divorce. Its not what I want but its a compromise and in my mind buys time to let cooler heads prevail. I dont want a separation. I want to work on our marriage under the same roof as a married couple. But she may think i want to separate now because I suggested it. Will clarify this with her tomorrow. Any suggestions on how to pitch that?

Edit: she told me in the texts tonight that living together right now is hard. She mentioned she wanted a divorce and i wanted separation and neither has happened. If she wants a divorce she can file. Im not going to do it for her and make it easy. Its not what I want. Neither is separation. Im leaving this ball in her court fully expecting her to file for divorce at this point.

You have the right idea! Focus on a) being as pleasant as possible and b) snooping like a blood hound to get evidence of her affair. I know you don't want to believe it but she is having an affair. Getting that evidence is the first step in saving your marriage. Go read that thread I linked and you can see how it works.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? If not, you can download it and read it on your computer or phone. It will help you understand the dynamics of what is happening here.

The best way is to tell her you have been doing a lot of thinking and have decided you don't want to separate or divorce. You will stay and work on your marriage. Tell her If she wants to move out, you can't stop her, but you are only interested in recovering your marriage.

I dont have the book but feel like i have read it already by reading all the threads on this forum. I have poured over her phone records and see no contact with the OM in several months. She deleted her texts with him on her phone. She changed her FB password recently and i havent had any luck guessing at it. I am not being naieve when I say i dont think she is currently cheating, but i wouldnt be at all surprised if the grass appears greener due to the past relationship and the goings on that they have had since we have been married.

Edit: they go to the same gym. He wasnt there today when she was, but that doesnt mean much. She does hair for a living and her schedule is spotty during the day. Assuming she is having an affair AND assuming its with the one guy i have in mind, he works for the school district, not sure of his position or wether he is off all summer like a teacher or not.

Ok, you need to get the book. You can't understand the program just from reading threads.

And yes you are being naive when you say you don't think she is cheating, since it is based on pure blind speculation. Just know this can't go forward until you do some real Intel and get the evidence. If she deleted texts, they can be retrieved.

I don't understand why you won't hire a PI. A P.I. Can get everything you need in a couple of days. I am getting the feeling that you are not taking this very seriously.

I have googled P.I's and there are none in my area. We live in a small town.

Just laying here and cant sleep. Thinking about the last time we had sex. It was weak and she wasnt into it, and when we were done she started crying. Feeling guilty about cheating maybe? Why else would someone cry after having sex with your husband of 5 years/lover of 9 years?

Lets say nothing turns up from the VAR. i cant get her texts and no P.I. - What about, as a last resort, confronting her and bluffing that I have evidence.... "Look, {wife's name}, I know you have been having an affair. The tracker was on your car for a long time, you cried after we had sex the last time, and I have tested your underwear, theres nothing else for me to say. You are busted."

Something along that line? Her reaction to that statement will tell me everything i need to know and hopefully get her to confess?

No, don't do this. Most people in affairs when caught redhanded or with solid evidence still try to deny it, so a bluff is unlikely to get a full confession. It is likely to just start an argument and send her affair further underground. You need to get the facts, and they are not going to come from her.

You need to put more thought into how you can install spyware on her phone. I believe you said she leaves it lying around and it is not password protected, which puts you at a huge advantage. Most people who come here are working with phones that are heavily guarded and PW protected, and yet when they put effort into it they are still able to install spyware on it.

It could be with a different OM, don't narrow your search to include just this one OM (for instance, looking at her phone logs only for his number).