I would like input from parents who have been successful scheduling UA and FC who have kids in after-school team sports.

Specifically, could you give examples of what your schedule looks like and which team sports worked best for you?

Also, for any of you who have weighed the pros/cons of dad/mom/kid or dad/kid time versus team sports, I'd like perspectives on that also. At best, there are some sports that I can coach but this only gives me indirect time with one child and ignores the other two, and prevents UA.

In our area we have sports such as soccer, football, gymnastics, swimming, tennis, baseball. The problems are that practice schedules tend to be after work, the kids are split into different age group teams, practices last 1.5 to 2 hours, and practice sessions are typically 4 or 5 days per week. This could easily eliminate any regular direct dad/kid time and UA (except for weekends) which is a no-go.

How are people fitting in team sports for kids? I feel like there are obvious benefits to the team sports. I just wish it did not tend to be so all-consuming of those valuable hours in the evenings.

Thanks.

Why not drop the kids off for practice and take your wife for a date?

Do not count Team sports as FC time -- as you have pointed out yourself, there are several problems with it being indirect time with only one child.

Instead, schedule FC time doing things that will have you interacting with your children.

Here's how you handle planning your schedule (in order of priority):
1. Plan 15 hours UA time
2. Then plan 15 hours FC time
3. If there's any time left, plan team sports.

Basically, we're not. The value of UA time and the value of actual FC time far outweigh any value we would get out of team sports.

Our daughters do ballet, but it is only one day a week AND we are getting plenty of UA and FC. The ballet class is NOT FC time. We have not put the boys in team sports -- it simply takes too much time away from our schedule to be of value.

We might consider putting the boys in sports IF it would be a good time for the two of us to go on a date! If we could use the practice time as basically babysitting, we'd go for it! But the team sport in of itself would not be considered FC time.

Here's some time scheduling math from Dr. Harley:


http://marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi3350_attn.html

So after scheduling 15 hours of UA time and 15 hours of FC time, you have 20 hours per week left to spend however you want. You could spend up to 20 hours of involvement in your children's sports; your children could spend many more hours than that without you.

Markos, that is a good idea. We have done exactly that during the part of swim team practice when all three of the kids are in the pool. We get in about 45-50m of RC. The only other opportunity that we�ve found for this so far is the YMCA�s Child Watch program. That is no longer an option though because our oldest falls in the crack above the max Child Watch age and the youngest age that a child is allowed to do Y activities unattended. I wish we could find more opportunities like you are talking about.

Markos, I see that you have seven kids. That is awesome! I would be very interested to hear about specific activities you are doing with them at home. And also how you handle one-on-one time with each child. That seems to be an important thing too. I have been searching for some good dad websites with specific activity ideas. My problem is getting organized and intentional about it. If you have any resources like that or books I am all ears. I am particularly interested in character building and physical activities to set some good habits for life.

Prisca, your response is exactly how I felt about this issue. After looking at some websites on the topic of organized/team sports versus family time, I saw that it is a highly debated topic. There are a good number of parents out there who say that they have a good marriage, do team sports and still have family time. I just don�t see how their numbers add up.

I also share the feeling about the value of family time being greater than team sports, but it was more of a gut feeling than something I have worked out on paper.

There are some specific benefits promoted as being a part of team sports like relationship development, winning and losing well, respect, perseverance, cooperation, etc. I really feel like I should be able to accomplish these in family time, even better. Do either of you have any concern about not being able to do that? Especially regarding the socialization angle. That was always a concern with homeschooling but we haven�t found it to be an issue when connected with a homeschool group. But there�s no home sports group equivalent for socialization. One idea I had was to involve friends of the kids in outings as often as practical.

Thanks for the helpful info.

We have 3 kids all in a competitive sport. I would say having them in a competitive sport is more difficult, but can be done and still get FC and UA time. The key is to plan appropriately, and if there is a conflict, the sport is the first thing to go.

The hours you have outlined for practices are excessive, especially for kids who are as young as yours seem to be (can't remember their ages but they seem to require supervision still?). The most one of our kids practice is 4 days a week, for 1 hour, and that is on a traveling/competitive team. Are there less competitive options for them to do, that are less time consuming? We also have our kids in a couple sports that are much more flexible (non competitive baseball and karate) and maybe this is an option for you as it is much easier to scratch it off the schedule if it doesn't work.

We made the choice that marriage and family comes first, and we stick to that. We pull our kids out of sports for family time, and we do not participate in all of the extra training and activities that seem to go along with a sport. We do not feel obligated to be heavily involved as parents or with the rest of our team. Our kids are old enough that we can go out on dates while they are at practice, and we take advantage of this rather than to always be sitting in the stands and mingling with the other parents. Our kids are not A team players, and maybe this is why, but we could care less. They are still getting team sport lessons but also learning how to prioritize and set boundaries, which is not a super common theme in the kid athletic world.

And we POJA'd a sport that H and I both love to support, watch, etc. (and all 3 kids are in the same one, so we are not divided).

You are correct in saying that most people are failing at this. I see many, many parents who put the sports before marriage and family. I see parents who consistently sit with others at games instead of together. I see husbands/wives who travel to games and tournaments alone. But you CAN make different choices and still make it work.

Erastis, when it comes to your children, I would focus first on meeting your wife's emotional need for family commitment. Her emotions are probably one of the best guides to what you can do for character building in your children.

Over the past few years, my church attendance has transformed from a religious duty into an act that I engage in specifically for the purpose of meeting my wife's emotional need for family commitment. That changes my emphasis, changes what I do at church, and the benefits are tremendous. I believe God is very pleased with the results.

I would say put the same priority on your wife's feelings in whatever you do with your children. That is far more important than the recommendations of any book.

Dr. Harley's recommendation is that you spend 15 hours a week together as a family. During that time the value that Dr. Harley most recommends you work on imparting to your children is: thoughtfulness for other people. Of course, if you are following Marriage Builders, then you are teaching this value all the time by example by the way you treat your wife. If you will have this family commitment time every week, individual time with children will still happen, but I believe you will find that the time you spend together as a family is even more important than that.

For the purpose of meeting Azurite's need for FC, does time count as family time if Azurite is not present?

Not really - what does Azurite want?

Azurite has consistently demonstrated a high level of desire for participating in family activities, and this has only improved overall since MB. However, there are specific times when she prefers to not be a part of the activity.

For example, when I get home from work I have about 1 to 1.5 hours available when I can spend time with the kids in FC. At those times she rarely participates. The reason she stated is because she has been with the kids all day and enjoys the time to be able to do other things (certainly understandable).

Part of the answer to my question is somewhat obvious - that Azurite should be the one to determine whether something qualifies as meeting her need for FC.

The reason for my question was that sometimes in MB, the principles are counterintuitive. I want to make sure that the obvious answer is a complete answer, and that I am not missing anything with this. I surely do not want to spend a lot of time doing FC without Azurite's involvement just to find out that although she prefers it that way sometimes, Harley may have found through clinical experience that it doesn't work or isn't as effective as it should be.

UA is one of those areas that can be counterintuitive as to what activities qualify. What may be UA to an individual, Harley may say otherwise because of his experience. That was the purpose of my question - to make sure that Azurite's determination of FC is the only qualification.

I have been operating on the assumption that if Azurite says family activities without her meet her FC need, then that is probably right. A side benefit of Azurite not participating in certain cases is that I have an opportunity to bond more directly with my kids.

To flip this around, when Azurite does not participate, it does not meet MY need for FC. But, I feel that Azurite does participate plenty at other times and my FC need is properly met at those times.

Bottom line is that what we are doing seems to be fine. I just wanted to make sure I was not assuming anything with this.

Have the specific activities been negotiated?

I probably should have started a new thread. My original thread was about team sports versus family time. Then I branched off to a second question about whether family time qualifies as FC at times when one spouse is not participating.

Apples123, I will assume that you may be referring to the latter. Azurite and I are in enthusiastic agreement with the after-work FC time and activities that I was talking about. (Where I am doing activities with the kids and she is doing other things.)

I would continue to be in enthusiastic agreement as long as it is OK by MB guidelines that she is not participating, and that whether her FC is met is determined by her alone.

Stick with one thread; it is easier for us.

Both should be negotiated- both the activities (team sports or otherwise) and the times. Team sports don't get a special place. FC time is similar to UA time- 15 hours for recreation, fun and conversation as a family. Team sport usually preclude this as they involve a lot of people and the opportunity for conversation is limited. Plus somebody is always left out.