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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Regardless, she has a restless heart and there is a history of this with her mother and father.
It bothers me somewhat that you say this, and also what you said about BDSM, as if they are innate aspects of her that cannot be controlled.

It could be that she has a "restless heart" - or that she needs the thrill of knowing that men find her attractive; that she is addicted to knowing that she can "pull" as we say over here, anytime she wants...but we are all like that, to some extent. We are all wired to have affairs. She may be more so than average, but I'm not sure you've EPd your life so that she does not go seeking opportunities. By that I mean both from the point of view of having a fulfilling marriage, and also of not having the space for a secret second life. if you've been coaching your daughter's team, that probably took up a lot of time that you could have spent with your wife.

And as for her mother and father: when he was young, Dr Harley worked out that every man in his direct line, for a few generations, had had affairs. That didn't mean that he did the same thing; in fact it made him determined to be the opposite.

I'm sorry if this sounds like criticism, but I just don't think you've done recovery the way Dr Harley advises, and I would urge you to reconsider going through with your threat...if there is a small part of you that does not want divorce.

Has your wife given you the BDSM argument as the reason why she does what she does? How did she hope to have that "need" fulfilled over the Internet?

Yes, I understand SC. All fair points that I will consider. I've seen her tendencies and they are hard for her to run away from, and I don't think she has a desire to. She is open about them. She was clear with me that her internet trists were not physical and that she was just getting her mind fix. For her, its the mind games that get her turned on. So internet works fine for her.




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Yes, I gave my wife the list of EP's and they were agreed upon.
Those EPs include never spending the night apart and having UA time. They were for you to follow as well. If you're not following them, why should she?


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
I've seen her tendencies and they are hard for her to run away from, and I don't think she has a desire to. She is open about them.
You didn't really answer my question. Does she use the argument about her "tendencies" to explain why she was back on chat rooms?

To put it another way: what has she said about why she did this again?


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Marcos,

I will be ignoring your posts and your wife's. Just letting you know out of consideration for your time.
This takes my breath away.

Why are you ignoring them?


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Marcos,

I will be ignoring your posts and your wife's. Just letting you know out of consideration for your time.
This takes my breath away.

Why are you ignoring them?

After years of reading their replies to others who post here asking for help, I have ignored them a long time now. But I never say anything because its not my thread. This is my thread, so I am saving them time by letting them know. To answer your question, I believe that they take pleasure in giving out the 2x4's. I've always considered there approach to be perverse and I've always been really put off by it. They have a very strong grasp of MB teachings for sure, but I believe they get their jollies hammering those who come here. By the way, I'm not against 2x4's. They are very important. I have bonked many with them myself here, and I have received them when deserved and took it like a man. And please know that I am acutely aware of my own shortcomings in this particular situation I find myself in. I'm not excusing myself.

Finally, I am dealing with something far more important than personality conflicts on the MB Guidance Forum right now so that is my last comment on them.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
I've seen her tendencies and they are hard for her to run away from, and I don't think she has a desire to. She is open about them.
You didn't really answer my question. Does she use the argument about her "tendencies" to explain why she was back on chat rooms?

To put it another way: what has she said about why she did this again?

She said she was bored and she needed to get a fix for her "mind sex" needs.


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
She said she was bored and she needed to get a fix for her "mind sex" needs.
If that's what she said, why did you tell us it was because of BDSM needs?

Do you realise that you are disrespectfully judging her by describing what you think she really feels?


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
She said she was bored and she needed to get a fix for her "mind sex" needs.
If that's what she said, why did you tell us it was because of BDSM needs?

Do you realise that you are disrespectfully judging her by describing what you think she really feels?

I said it because she herself has lumped BDSM with the mind games that she enjoys.

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My daughter is fuming mad at her mother right now. They are very close, but at this moment DD can't stand being around WW. Before this blew up, we were scheduled to take a family vacation with more college visits. DD doesn't want to go if her mom is going.

Even though I have told my wife that we are separating permanently, I feel that she should go with us on this vacation if she wants to. She works very hard as a teacher and is excellent at it. She deserves a vacation and hasn't had one yet. Even though I am very angry with her and deeply hurt by what she has done, I feel she should go if she wants to. But if she goes, DD will be miserable and we will get nothing out of the visits. This isn't DD being a brat. She just can't abide by her mother right now. I have been clear with her that she has a right to her feelings, and her feelings are not misplaced. But she must still respect her mom even if she doesn't respect her recent actions.

Getting back to this trip, the college visits are what are most important. This is my last block of time to take DD to see colleges that she may attend, and so I don't want her to miss this opportunity. It's a quandary.

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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Getting back to this trip, the college visits are what are most important.
And you don't think that your daughter's college is equally important to your wife and not just your problem? The fact that you place it before your marriage says much. Your daughter is quite capable of deciding this without you holding her hand. If she is not capable, then she isn't ready for college, anyway. In ten years, the college trips will be long forgotten, but what you do about your failing marriage will be in full force. Your priorities are wrong.


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You are right, Mr. Eureka. But I have already given up on the marriage. Sugar Cane has given me something to think about, but ultimately I believe my wife will do this again. I no longer trust her and she has depleted my love bank. The piggy bank has shattered.

I quit.


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
You are right, Mr. Eureka. But I have already given up on the marriage. Sugar Cane has given me something to think about, but ultimately I believe my wife will do this again. I no longer trust her and she has depleted my love bank. The piggy bank has shattered.

I quit.
I propose the following thought to you:

Have you given up on your marriage specifically or have you given up on marriage globally?

If you have given up on marriage globally, then you have made the right choice. But, if you have given up on this specific marriage and have hopes of establishing a future successful marriage, then you need to face the fact that the best likelihood for you ever experiencing a successful marriage lies in a marriage with your current spouse. There are many reasons why this is so, and you should already know these if you are a diligent student of MB. So, think beyond your current emotions. What is your goal? You don't want to cut off your nose to spite your face.


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
They have a very strong grasp of MB teachings for sure, but I believe they get their jollies hammering those who come here.

I get my jollies helping people avoid mistakes that can ruin their marriage and their life.

I don't take any pleasure in people simply not listening. The mistakes catch up to people, each and every time. frown


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Marcos,

I will be ignoring your posts and your wife's. Just letting you know out of consideration for your time.
This takes my breath away.

Why are you ignoring them?

After years of reading their replies to others who post here asking for help, I have ignored them a long time now. But I never say anything because its not my thread. This is my thread, so I am saving them time by letting them know. To answer your question, I believe that they take pleasure in giving out the 2x4's. I've always considered there approach to be perverse and I've always been really put off by it. They have a very strong grasp of MB teachings for sure, but I believe they get their jollies hammering those who come here. By the way, I'm not against 2x4's. They are very important. I have bonked many with them myself here, and I have received them when deserved and took it like a man. And please know that I am acutely aware of my own shortcomings in this particular situation I find myself in. I'm not excusing myself.

Finally, I am dealing with something far more important than personality conflicts on the MB Guidance Forum right now so that is my last comment on them.

I would get my jollies from having a large mass of men in our culture rise up and realize that it's unfair and unrealistic to expect a woman to live in a marriage without sufficient attention from her husband, and for those men to realize that the best thing they can do for their children is to give their children's mother a happy marriage.

What I'm seeing is that you didn't want to follow the policy of undivided attention, so you didn't do it. Regardless of my internal motivations, you wouldn't have done this anyway. You don't want to hear that this could never work like that because according to Dr. Harley a marriage cannot recover from an affair unless it becomes better than it was before the affair. You returned to the status quo for your wife, not better for your wife, and so it didn't work.

You don't want to hear that and so you blame it on me and my wife's feelings and approach.

You may not listen but hopefully at least I can reach the lurkers.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Regardless of what you think of my motivation, the fact remains that you did not follow the program. You yourself did not follow the EPs. You set your wife up to fail.

If you ever intend to remarry, these marriage wrecking behaviors of yours will need to be changed, or any future marriage you have will also fail.


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
She said she only did it to fill her mind. She loves sex of the mind. I am fairly conventional. We have great sex, but there are areas that go unfulfilled for her. She's a teacher and has been off work this summer, so she got bored and turned to chat rooms again. ...

Still, trolling for mind sex is not okay with me even if she did nothing physical. Further, I know where this leads. ...

I hate to throw it all away over this, but I'm not willing to go through this again. I'm not willing to enable her for a third time.

I am SO sorry to hear this, Just.

What she did is not acceptable. EVEN if you weren�t meeting her needs 100%. She crossed your well laid out boundaries. So I can see why you want to divorce.

I am so glad that you had the courage to share the bad news and post for support.

Your wife obviously needs stimulation from the opposite sex. Another name for that stimulation could be romance. Or it could also be that she is an addict and needs excessive stimulation. You know that you were not following the plan 100%, but that doesn�t justify her going outside the marriage.

Having been in a situation similar to yours, with a spouse who needed high levels of stimulation to maintain happiness, I would recommend that you run all of this past Dr. Harley. He might bring some things up with you that you had never considered.

It is so difficult to be hurt like this after ALL you have done to save your marriage after betrayal. Please tell me that you will at least email Dr. Harley your post and ask for his input. I say this not to talk you out of a divorce, but to help you gain peace and understanding as you make decisions for the future.

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I'm so sorry to hear this Justthe3ofus. Praying for you and your family!


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

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I'm so sorry to hear of this.

Will you be writing Dr. Harley?


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WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by mrEureka
I propose the following thought to you:

Have you given up on your marriage specifically or have you given up on marriage globally?

If you have given up on marriage globally, then you have made the right choice. But, if you have given up on this specific marriage and have hopes of establishing a future successful marriage, then you need to face the fact that the best likelihood for you ever experiencing a successful marriage lies in a marriage with your current spouse. There are many reasons why this is so, and you should already know these if you are a diligent student of MB. So, think beyond your current emotions. What is your goal? You don't want to cut off your nose to spite your face.


Mr. Eureka,
I'm not sure if you know my story, but MB restored my marriage after my wife and I divorced over her first affair. I was in Plan A for a long time and eventually it paid off.

I am going to e-mail Dr. Harley. I have not left my wife. This week we are visiting colleges. On Wednesday she and I spent the day alone together as we dropped our daughters off at Disneyland for the day and did not pick them up from the park until midnight when it closed. They are teenagers.

I don't want to throw away the marriage, but I don't trust my wife. She hasn't shared with me everything she did, and she kept changing her story as I came up with evidence that countered what she was saying.

She is not in withdrawal. We are intimate and loving. She is not having an affair with any one person. But the fact that she went back to chat rooms and was skyping with different guys getting her thrills and giving them thrills is still infidelity, and I feel its only a matter of time before she does something like this again and it leads to another affair. This has caused a huge withdrawal in my love bank.

I will update you after I hear from Dr. Harley.

Thank you, Axe, Brain, and DQ for your thoughts. They are much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Marcos,

I will be ignoring your posts and your wife's. Just letting you know out of consideration for your time.

I am really a loss for words, I have a great respect for Marcos and everyone else here that take there time to help others.
I really consider your statement disrespectful.


BH 34
D-Day- 6/2015
Married 4 years
DD 11 and 4
DS 1
Plan A+Exposure

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