I listened to some more on the VAR. She continued to say that she feels bad for people seeing me as crazy and that I am the nicest person she knows and that she has treated me terribly during our marriage. She said she also feels bad for treating me bad and also adding an affair on top of that. OM tried to tell her she did the right thing by getting out of the marriage, but she argued saying you don't have to try to justify my actions. It's ok for me to feel bad for hurting my husband and being a bad wife.

That all sounds good, but she still thinks the reason she treated me badly was because we weren't meant to be together. She thinks the fact that she treated me bad means she never really liked me. She doesn't realize she treated me bad because she was having an affair.

Let me just comment that marriages aren't saved by husbands persuading their wives to think differently. They are saved by husbands a) making an affair extremely unpleasant and b) winning their wives by filling their love banks. Afterward, the wife tends to think differently.

I was thinking back about the original exposure and the recent mini exposure and was wondering something: does the exposure still have some positive effect even if the people interpret it as the betrayed just trying to get revenge?
It sounds like that is what happened in my case, the majority of the people see WW as a victim. But she ended up coming home to sleep in the spare room tonight. And she seems very depressed.

I assume even if people think I exposed because I wanted to hurt my wife's reputation, she still has to feel bad that the affair is out in the open. And she has to be thinking people will eventually see her as bad if she pursues a relationship with OM. And according to what she told OM on the VAR, it sounds like she thinks I exposed because I believed it to be the right thing to save our marriage. She told him she thinks I am desperate because it is close to the end, and I am just scrambling to try everything I can. So I assume it doesn't matter so much that people think I am crazy, as long as I got the affair out in the open and WW sees it as me trying to save our marriage.

You can't control people's reactions. Your job is to get the information out there. I guarantee you the affair is no longer the fantasy it once was. Her plan was to introduce OM to people as some guy she met after you two had divorced. You ruined that plan. The fantasy she had created is no longer a possibility. Affairs are unstable relationships to begin with, and you've made it that much harder for them.

You mentioned that they've already begun arguing about it. That's a good thing. You want them discussing real world problems rather than living in la la land. The quicker they have to face reality, the quicker the whole relationship will crumble.

There's no predicting how long it will take for the affair to end. Between 95 and 97 percent of all affairs end within two years, but statistics don't determine events, events determine statistics. Their affair may last a decade. That's why Dr. Harley advises to wait up to two years. I called it quits after 18 months, but I didn't have children.

Absolutely. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing them harms the affair. Sure there are some dimwits who will see the cheating spouse as a victim, but they are not someone whose opinion you should value. The value is in bringing the affair out into the open.


It doesn't matter what anyone thinks because that is not the purpose. The only purpose is to bring the affair out into the open because that will hasten its death. It doesn't matter how your wife sees it. And I doubt everyone sees you as "crazy." She thinks that because the only people she is speaking to are enablers and dimwits. For example, how dumb is it to blame YOU for ruining her reputation? If her rep is ruined, it would be because of her family.

Thanks nmwb77 and melody. I definitely needed to hear some encouraging words.

From the VAR, it sounds like I may be getting kicked out of our gym we were attending together. Even though the gym owner supported my efforts at first, when he found out I exposed to another member and mutual friend he became afraid that I will do something crazy, and has switched to WW being the victim. WW said (on the VAR) she feels bad for letting him think that and not correcting him, so at least that is on her conscience. I'm not worried about the gym though, since me and WW haven't been going together since she left the house.

It is weird though, when WW found out about the exposure 2 days ago, she was predictably angry. But last night and today she is already being nicer. She stayed at home in the spare room last night too.

This seperation is a lot different then it was when she seperated on D-day. I guess my 3 and a half months of Plan A is responsible for that.

I think your Plan A is working as it is designed to. Are you able to continue with it?

Yes. I can continue. I should be able to finish out the whole six months which ends October 1st.

I was just thinking, and I could be just paranoid, but since the small exposure tuesday WW has started staying at home in the spare bed. Tonight she actually cooked supper for the first time in over a year and has been less hateful. I wonder if she is trying to play along again because she is afraid I will try to do something drastic? And maybe her and OM are scheming sometjing in the meantime.
The other day when she was arguing with OM and talking good about me, OM kept telling her to watch how she acts in front of the kids so I don't try to get full custody or something. She argued that I wouldn't do that and also that she is very careful with what she does in front of the kids.

She went to the movies tonight with her brother in law (so she says). I was thinking it could be a test to see if I will stalk her or call to verify, or she could simply have lied and met up with OM.

By the way, how should I have handled her going to the movie with her sister's husband? Obviously I trust her very little, but she was speaking about divorce yesterday and this is only her second night back at home. I didn't want to tell her not to go since she would just leave and stay at her sisters again tonight.

Did you go to the movie house to CONFIRM she is actually there?


I would have objected strenuously. When she engages in marriage wrecking behavior you should object.

I don't understand your strategy. Is it to just go along with marriage wrecking behavior in order to avoid conflict and keep her there at all cost?

That's what I still don't understand after all these months. Even though that was her second night back home and she is still talking to OM every day on the phone, should I still have said "I don't want you to go to the movie because I don't trust that is what you are actually doing"?

Wouldn't she just get mad and leave anyway and confirm in her mind that she doesn't want a controlling life? And what do I do about her sleeping in the spare bed just so she can text OM without me watching? I want to tell her to leave if she is continuing to talk to him, but I'm not supposed to do that am I?

I don't know what to do. I thought the plan was to just be the perfect husband and make the affair difficult, so she wants to be at home with the family and end the affair. And then I would start working on getting the transparency back in place.

I still haven't grasped how to do plan A and demand she end the affair everyday at the same time. Right now all I do is continue to be nice and do every chore I can and take care of her and the kids, and once per day I tell her to end the affair because it is very painful and I want to work to create a perfect marriage.

Should I tell her she needs to resume staying with her sister or mom until she ends the affair again and gives me her passwords again?

I did listen to the VAR today and confirmed she was at the theater with her brother in law. But that's probably only because she is embarrassed or afraid to go with OM to a public place openly while still married.

She got in the bed with me last night after the movie, but said "I'm going to sleep in here because I don't feel like sleeping in the spare bed. This doesn't mean we are ok though."

Are you planning on moving before October 1st?

Yes.

Probably. But keeping her home against her will is not the point. The point is to make sure she knows that when she leaves you home alone, you are not happy with it. Plan A is not Plan Doormat. You need to complain, calmly, everytime she does something that hurts you and puts your marriage in jeopardy. This is a habit that will continue into your recovery, if you do recover. It's part of a healthy marriage.

"It hurts me when you sleep in the spare bedroom. I would prefer you sleep in our marital bed."

You can't force her. Complain. Let her know what you want and what you think your marriage needs.

Not if you want to save your marriage. Issuing ultimatums like this to a WW and kicking her out, doesn't work. IF you do kick her out, AND you somehow do manage to recover your marriage, she will NEVER forget that you kicked her out. It will be a thorn in your marriage, and will make recovery harder.

If you can't take it anymore emotionally, you need to move out.

And you need to move anyway.

"Plan A" is not "Plan Nice At All Cost." Some people tend to think that it is, but they are wrong. It is true that in Plan A you must avoid lovebusters, and you must try to meet her emotional needs as much as she will let you. BUT, that doesn't mean never let her know that what she is doing is hurting you terribly. You can avoid being demanding, disrespectful and angry and STILL tell her that her affair hurts you terribly and you need it to stop.

Not if you want to save your marriage.
Complain about her affair, let her know what is hurting you, but kicking her out is off the table.

Smile and say "Okay!"

Dollarbob, as Prisca said, Plan A involves building a lot of habits that carry over into a recovered marriage.

Chief among these is learning to manage your Giver and your Taker.

In Plan A, you don't shut either one of these down. But you do let them filter out each other's ideas.

So, she goes out and that's unacceptable to you, and you need to do something about your Taker. Your Taker might suggest that you yell at her, call her names, tell her to leave the house, etc. But your Giver knows that these aren't compatible with saving your marriage, so these ideas are filtered out. The idea that is left is that you complain: you tell your wife that what she is doing is hurting you. I wouldn't dwell too much on why that is because she will see that as controlling or disrespectful and it may lead to a fight, but as Prisca says, let her know what you want and what you think your marriage needs.

She will then make up her own mind about what she is going to do. Don't try to stop her. The goal here is not to control her; the goal is to give her the information that she may some day willingly act on to have a good marriage with you. If she never does that, you will eventually put Plan B into effect to protect yourself, but for now you keep giving her information from your Taker, and letting your Giver give to her.

When markos would get angry and threaten to kick me out, it made me afraid of him. But, not only that, I also looked down on him as a pitiful, cruel, vindictive mess who would rip any feelings of security out from under me whenever he felt like it.

When he would calmly look me in the eye and tell me "What you are doing is hurting me" without any demands, disrespect or anger, he was admirable. It bothered me to no end that he wanted me to stop what I was doing, and sometimes I retaliated with anger of my own, but I still had the memory of a strong man who calmly let me know what he needed.

Thanks Prisca and Markos. That makes a lot of sense.
So even if she does 20 different behaviors everyday that further the affair and hurt the marriage, I should calmly tell her all 20 times that that behavior hurts me and will not lead to a great marriage?

I want to move before October 1st or as close to that day as possible. I am hoping she agrees to go, so it is easier financially and there is no fight over the kids which I could end up losing possibly. Is it possible, since this is our second seperation in a few months, that she may see the logic in No Contact and be more likely to move? Or is there no other way than to just move and hope she goes with me?

What about this scenario. She has done this 3 times in the past few days.

Suppose it's 7pm and she says she is going to Walmart to get something. Especially if it is something that is not needed and could just as easily be picked up on the way home from work the following day.

OM lives about a mile from Walmart. So I suspect she could be meeting him or using that time alone to call or text him.

What am I supposed to say about that? "It bothers me that you are leaving so late to go buy something that one of us could pick up tomorrow"?
She is going to say, "oh, I can't even go to the store when I want now? Tell me again how this marriage is supposed to be so great with you locking me up like a prisoner?"

One day when she was supposedly 2 weeks into no contact, I saw her pass up several gas stations to stop at one right by OM'S house on her way home from work. She got gas and went straight home. When she got home I jokingly asked "what took you so long?" She blew up over that and didn't speak for 4 days.

Why don't you go with her to Wal-Mart?

"It bothers me when you go to the store in the evening without me. I'd rather us go together, or during the day after work."

Yeah, she may blow up. That's her choice. You can't force her to respond any differently. Complain, and let her choose how she will respond.

Don't make such jokes. It will be a lovebuster.
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