Yeah Sugarcane. Spouses aren't invited, but I thought about how it must have sounded as soon as I asked. And I knew she wouldn't go since she is claiming to be done with the marriage. But I ended up asking if she wanted to go, right after I asked her to get the kids. But she never responded anyway.

"Spouses aren't invited" is a nonsense phrase. Nobody who has a good marriage thinks that is a normal practice.

If you invite me, you are inviting my spouse, because we are one. if you tell me, you are telling my spouse.

Sure, lots of people don't live like this, but most people don't know beans about how to have a good marriage. Or how to avoid an affair!

I agree Markos. It was an unthoughtful mistake.

I guess it doesn't matter now though. She just sent me about 50 texts saying she is done and I was never a good husband and she is finished being nice to me and that I have been holding her hostage by refusing to leave the house. She is sounding like she did after D-day when I first exposed. I guess she is mad because she believes I am really having someone follow her like I led her to believe last night.

Maybe I damaged the affair some and that is why she is so hostile today? Or maybe because yesterday was the first time she actually talked to OM in person in a couple weeks? Or maybe she really is done this time?

If spouses aren't invited, then how did you end up asking if she wanted to go? Would you have been able to take her if she'd said "yes"?

I said, "do you want me to ask if spouses can go?". If she had said yes and the job said no, then I wouldn't have went and woukd have asked if she wanted to do something else instead.

I overheard WW on the VAR last night complaining to OM that her job is not wanting to give her an apartment anymore for free like they first mentioned. So she was sad at home all night because she can't afford an apartment by herself and OM barely makes any money.
The job has given lots of other employees free apartments, so I don't know why they aren't doing it for her. I have a feeling they will eventually cave and give her one for free or reduced price.
Should I try to speak to her boss and let him know that the apartment is really for OM? WW will not stay anywhere at night by herself and OM works nights, so technically the apartment will be mostly for him. He will stay there all day and sleep and WW will probably stay on the nights he is off work.

Yes.

Thanks Prisca.

Also, on the VAR from last night, I heard WW saying that she doesn't understand what I am doing. She said she keeps telling me she doesn't want this marriage and this life but I just won't listen. The person asked if I was dumb, but WW said I was very very smart. She said she knows it hurts me to keep telling me she doesnt want me and she feels terrible, but I just wont stop. Then she told OM that she keeps telling me she is done and I am being super nice, but she thinks it is just so when we get divorced I will have proof showing I tried to save the marriage.

Do people really recover from this type of stuff when it's this bad? Should I just give up now?

I think I keep getting little hints like she is not wanting to get divorced, like her staying at home and sleeping in our bed instead of staying at her mom's or the spare bed. And last night she told me she was done being nice and discussing anything other than important matters with me, but today she was back to talking normal.

I just worry that maybe I really am holding on for nothing. I have days where I know it is just fog speak, but when I hear her on the VAR sounding so tired and beat down saying "I am just done", I feel that maybe I am wasting time.

But maybe I am just down because I forgot to take my antidepressants for the past 2 days. Or maybe the antidepressants are clouding my brain keeping me from seeing the real situation.

This is how Plan A creates conflict in the WW's mind. Eventually causing her to end the affair. Keep Plan A'ing.

I guess there is no point in stopping the plan A early. I have nothing to lose really. But I keep having all these negative thoughts. Like how last month it really looks like she stopped contact with OM a few times and at one point made it about 1 month with no contact. So maybe she thinks she gave it an honest try and it didn't work, so she won't be trying again.

But anyways, she is actually acting better today. She was going to get food and asked if I wanted anything. And she has been at home all evening so far with me alone. It's a sharp contrast to her saying last night that she was done and finished being nice.

Quite often there is back sliding by the WW and NC is broken by the WW but then she resumes NC.

Remember an affair is an addiction. Many addicts going through withdrawal get weak and fall off the wagon for a moment. Just hold tight and keep up your efforts.

Thanks Road. I thought about that. When she first resumed contact I wasn't worried at all, but now it has been a month or so and I am starting to get worried. But I guess there is no time limit on a relapse. Hopefully my plan A can shorten it though.

A back slide is a brief break. Continued contact for a month is more than a back slip.

Maybe time to Plan B her and serve her with D papers. Email Dr Harley for his advice. Then as you wait for his response continue to Plan A.

I emailed Dr. Harley. Just waiting on a response.

I don't know if this latest relapse is a back slide or what. Even though she stopped contact for a month or two, she could have still been communicating thru coworkers who are also friends with OM. And there was never any affection on her part during the whole 2 month period. The only progress made during that whole time was she stopped being mean, answered when I said "I love you", and appeared to really stop contact for a while. But she never showed any real withdrawal symptoms or anything. So I am guessing the affair just took a break or never really ended.

By the way, they haven't worked together since April, but OM still was communicating with her coworkers probably knowing they would relay info to WW.

Let us know what Dr. Harley says.

I will Brainhurts. Still waiting.

Tell me if this was a bad mistake or not:

Last night I found WW talking to OM on the VAR. So I told her she is hurting me terribly and to stop the affair and we can make our marriage better than ever. She got mad and said I have to stop spying on her. So I said I will not share her with another man. She said she will not stop talking to him, and that I need to leave since she has nowhere else to go. She said she is trying to be nice but that she is going to have to file for divorce and force me out. She kept trying to argue so I told her I wasn't going to argue and I went to sleep.
She still hasn't figured out that I have a VAR, so she accused me of having spyware on her and her friends and mothers phones. I told her I didn't and just that she was being watched.

This morning when I woke up I was furious still thinking about everything and how OM has my number blocked and hides when I try to confront him, and he tells WW that he isn't afraid of me but he is such a good person and doesn't want to engage with me. And she claims to believe him. Since she was saying last night she wants me to leave, I calmly told her this morning, "tell OM that if he will come over here and confront me in person like a man, I will leave. I want you to see that he is afraid." She told me to shut up, so I left for work.

Was that a big mistake to say that?

I do not know if that was a mistake. I would of told WW: Thing is if the OM wants her why does the OM not provide her with a place to stay, have her move in with him, is what I would of told WW.

Thanks Road. I told her that several months ago before I discovered Marriage Builders. We had both talked to lawyers and I was moving out, and I told her it wasn't fair that I was losing everything. I said she shoukd have to move in with OM. She told me something like our divorce has nothing to do with him and she wasn't divorcing me to be with him, but she said they coukd end up dating one day. I guess her plan then and still now is to divorce me and talk to OM in secret for a while until things die down and then they can date out in the open.

But OM makes very little money and has to pay alimony and child support, so he lives with his mother. So I guess that is why she can't live with him. She was trying to get an apartment thru her job for free or reduced price, but that fell thru when her job only offered it for a max of 3 months.

Other than all that, she has been acting better towards me and the kids for the past week. She quit yelling and cursing, and unblocked and sent me a friend request on Facebook. And she still sleeps in the bed with me and shares her paycheck with me. So everything is pretty much back to how it was during our false semi-recovery, except for the communication with OM.

Is there a way I can let her know I can hear her conversations on her phone with OM? She doesn't know about the VAR, but she thinks I have spyware on her phone. Wouldn't it be good if she thinks I am using that spyware to hear their conversations? I think that would make their conversations a lot less fun if they are worried about me listening in.

What do you think?