New to this program, in coaching with Steve Harley. Starting the program has been difficult. Wife of 15 years is resistant, openly negative to the concepts of UA, POJA and Openness and Honesty. After years of therapy, we're at a make or break point in our marriage.

Steve has us sharing sharing our emotional needs and love busters. During the sharing, she's been getting angry and noticeably irritated with my answers. She gets angry and irritated when I ask for more specific examples of how I can meet her emotional needs, and if she thinks the frequency of things like affection are high enough (asking if she wants me to note a higher frequency than initially shared).

The final straw was during our trying to go through the love busters, during her 2nd one, I was asking questions to make sure I was capturing her feedback correctly and in the right areas / sections of the questionnaire, so I would be able to go back and refer to it correctly later.

At one point, she's sharing with me that she thinks I do Love Buster things to "make myself feel better" and to "get things off my chest". I calmly explained I took those notes, but also said those are coming across as disrespectful judgments and according to Steve, were not to be part of how we shared the feedback. I think these are disrespectful because she's making negative judgements about my motivations and not sharing her feelings or perspective.

She reacted with anger, starts raising her voice, told me I was being anal and making this too difficult. With very few exceptions, I'm not interrupting. I'm trying to listen for understanding and asking clarifying questions to make sure I'm capturing her intent correctly.

I left the conversation at that point, came back later and told her I would not tolerate AOs and name calling any more in our discussions.

FYI - My #1 LB with her is AO. That's the only one I had the chance to share.

Now, I'm very upset with her reaction and what I think is an inappropriate AO. She leaves, I then see that she had sent a text to her mother who was supposed to come over that morning, and says, "FYI - he's in a bad mood. we got in a fight and he's mad a me. don't take it personally, he's mad at me".

At this point I'm furious. My MIL is a massive negative influence for many reasons, and here's my wife telling her I'm in a bad mood. I feel this further undermines me, shifts blame to me, and a betrayal of loyalty to protect the marriage. It also is very assumptive that I would behave poorly to my MIL if she came over (she didn't end up coming over BTW, due to this text).

Is this an overreaction on my part? Am I being too sensitive?

Have you shared this with Steve Harley? What does he say about this? Do you have access to Dr. Harley on the private forum?

We're talking with him together in the morning. I'm just overall feeling really hopeless. No access to Dr. Harley on private forum... not sure what that is. Is that part of the home study coaching?

My wife is kind of participating at this point, but she's vocal about her concerns about many areas and says things like "we're never going to be able to do anything because you won't let me do anything". There are behaviors & activities that she's said she won't change and don't think should change (because "it wouldn't be healthy"), even if I think they are hurtful to me personally and/or harmful to the marriage.

When I discovered the text message to her mom, one of her responses was, "see, this is why we shouldn't be completely open and transparent about all our texts and phone calls".

What I feel are Angry Outbursts from her are part of just about every conversation that is not in the category of what I consider "neutral" and sometimes, even those are. I recently asked her "Is there anything I can do to help you?" and that was met with an Angry Outburst. When do you think you'll be home? Where would you like to travel to? Who were you talking to? Etc... those can and do often prompt AO responses, and almost always make her cringe and get irritated.

I hate spending this much money feeling like it's pointless. Again, am I way out of line on my expectations? I'm really impatient right now to see tangible change and improvement, and I'm done with the AOs.

I think you and your wife are crying out to do the online MB Course with Dr Harley, who founded this programme.

The online course costs about $1000, and this represents unbelievable value for money. You'll get a box full of books and materials. You are assigned a coach who takes you through the weekly lessons. The coach consults weekly with Dr Harley, and if you need advice from him on a specific point, you can post to him on the private forum that is only for online participants (that is what BrainHurts was referring to, and you won't have access to that by doing phone coaching with Steve). You'll have access to the private forum for life, not just for while you are doing the course.

The online course takes about a year to complete, doing lessons every week and working on your annoying habits, disrespectful judgements and crucially, angry outbursts, until they are eliminated.

When you do the online course you'll be guided so that you do not argue with each other about the concepts.

Interesting feedback... The reason I started with individual coaching is because my wife is so resistant to the concepts and to committing time to even do very basic homework. I thought have a direct one-on-one coach would expedite and engage better. In fact, even scheduling the calls when we do is an area of frustration for her.

I'm pessimistic, based on past experience, current feedback on the program overall, and current progress with Steve, that she would follow through on the homework, or that we would be successful in completing the homework together with positive results and conversations.

Could you elaborate on this? What are her concerns? What are some of the many areas?

What does she mean by "we are never going to be able to do anything" - do what? And what won't you "let her do"?

What behaviours won't she change (apart from the angry outbursts, that we already know about)?

What has led to to make or break point? What has been going on in your marriage to get you to this stage? Is there anything in addition to the angry outbursts?

Some examples:

She doesn't think it's healthy to have the POJA because it takes away the individuality of a person.

She doesn't think radical honesty is appropriate because she thinks she should always be able to have private conversations with friends and family to be a healthy, functioning individual.

She thinks 15 hours a week of UA is totally unrealistic and unworkable. She needs "Private time" alone and that would take away "all" her private time.

Along those lines, she places a HIGH priority on watching TV. I think we should recapture some of that time for UA. She hates that idea and gets angry at the suggestion.

I think her drinking is damaging to our relationship by making her more prone to anger, and drains her energy for daily tasks. I think she should stop for a good 3-6 months to see how she does. She won't do this.

I think she should stop smoking immediately. She promised she wouldn't before we were married, then started again a few years after we were married behind my back. She now uses a e-cig after I found out 4 years ago, originally said she would stop, but now thinks it's none of my business and angry and resentful that I want her to stop.

Once or twice a year, she wants to be able to go out to clubs and bars with girlfriends for "girls night out" even though I think that is a totally inappropriate place for a married woman to be, esp w/o husband.

She wants to spend way more time with her parents and family even though I find the time spent destructive to our marriage. Her mom has recommended divorce attorneys, talks bad and is very critical of me, and is very critical of everyone. She treats her own husband like dirt and sets a bad example overall of what a healthy marriage should be.

She thinks my expressed emotional needs around sex and domestic support are totally unrealistic and unfair, and my sharing makes her angry. She thinks her definition in these areas is the only reasonable criteria.

She was recently angered by the suggestion that we be more selective in our social time to spend our time with people that emulate the relationship we want, and share our faith. She called me controlling and judgmental, even though I see some of the existing friendships encouraging us both to engage in activities that don't represent who I want to become (usually heavier drinking and late nights out). I know we become most like those we spend the most time with, and I was expressing my desire to be much more selective and conscientious of this in our social planning.

Does that help?

livin, your wife sounds just like my wife did when I came to Marriage Builders. What I learned is that in the end you have to learn how to be your wife's motivator. A coach will not do it; the coach can coach you to learn how to be the kind of husband that your wife will want to be in a relationship with.

Right now Marriage Builders isn't going to make anything in the world better for her. She's not in love with you and is upset with you for a lot of things. I wouldn't expect much progress until you can correct some of the things she is upset about. What kind of things is she upset about?

livin, is this a first marriage for both of you? Do you have any children?

Her first marriage, my second. No kids from previous relationships. I have one 5 year old son with her, which is my primary motivation to continue working on the marriage at this point (probably for both of us).

That is a very long list from her. You can see some examples above.

Part of it for me is hard to really know what is legitimate vs. her just being an angry person. I know that's a loaded statement. But what I mean is that she makes horrible assumptions and judgements about my motivations without ever asking me any questions about my thoughts.

For example, she'll say she wants non-sexual attention. And when I offer it how she says she wants it, she gets mad because she thinks "I just want sex". Or when I ask her how I can do better, she gets angry and says I should already know and I'm just pretending to be ignorant.

She will almost never accept an apology and will stay resentful for years. We recently spent 40 minutes of a 1 hour therapy session to get her to accept my apology for something I said. A week later she brought it up and said I wasn't really sorry. She brings up things from 7 years ago like they're happening today.

She thinks I'm controlling, even though multiple therapists have told I'm not in the abusive sense. I am seen as Type A achiever, organized, etc so I do definitely like order and "control". But I'm very open to talking finances, plans, goals, etc... she just won't make time to plan and/or understand and gets angry when I do something she doesn't like.

She's been a Stay At Home Mom for 5 years. I've been vocal that I think with us having a regular house cleaning service and our son in a regular day care program for 2+ years, theres a LOT more she could be doing around the house than watching her soap operas and napping while messes are all over (I work from home, so I do know this is happening).

This was an improper time for you to share with her that you felt she was being disrespectful. When she is giving you feedback through the worksheets, you are supposed to sit and listen quietly. If she makes a disrespectful judgement, you are to write it down on the lovebuster worksheet and give it to her later. You don't stop the whole process to lecture her about her disrespectful judgements (educating her on what she's supposed to do according to Steve is also a disrespectful judgement on your part, btw). Markos used to do this to me -- it only drove me away from trying.

livin, while I was writing above that your wife sounded like my wife did at one time, you posted some more details, and I now see that your wife is an alcoholic. That alcoholism is what I see as the big pressing problem, here. Have you discussed it with Steve Harley? I would encourage you to also discuss it with Steve's father, Dr. Harley, on the Marriage Builders Radio show.

5 year old child whose mother has a drinking problem - that's a tough row to hoe. This kid is going to need a lot from you.

I do think there is some truth to what your wife is saying about you being controlling. I would be interested to hear what Dr. Harley says about that. I do think there are some things you can learn here that would help with that. But I see alcohol as the big pressing issue here.

I'm done being miserable in a loveless, sexless marriage, without physical or intellectual intimacy. I'm done with the constant angry outbursts, name calling, and being around someone who thinks I'm a POS.

I've given it enough time and effort at this point something MUST change very soon for the better. It's unbearable and I don't want to miss the opportunity to build a real relationship and marriage with someone who wants that while I'm still relatively young.

Yes it does. Thank you.

She sees things this way, and behaves this way, because she is not in love with you. She is trying to escape from you with "alone time", more time with friends, and girls' nights out. She doesn't care that you want her to stop drinking and smoking, because she isn't in love with you. She probably sees the demands of this programme as unpleasant, because they require you to spend time together and have intimate conversations with each other. The programme is designed to make you fall in love with each other, and she doesn't want that.

She needs to end her angry outbursts. You need to create the conditions under which she falls in love with you. You won't accomplish that trying to pin her down on things that she doesn't want to talk about, or do.

Would you say she was in love with you when she married you? What did you do at that time, that met her ENs?

This is a good example of a problem in the present that she has with your relationship that will need to be fixed. When the problems of the present are solved she will be less likely to bring up problems of the past.

You know from Marriage Builders that your wife needs 15 hours of your undivided attention a week. So what do you do when your wife won't spend that time with you? You get it to her some other way. Your wife is not getting enough of your attention, and she may fight you all the way while you try to give it to her, but find a way to give it to her. Don't mention Marriage Builders or UA time to her. Don't remind her that the program or Steve says she needs to spend this time with you. Just get with her, get something to do with her that she enjoys, and give her your attention during that time. Watch TV with her if you have to, and talk to her about the show later.

Again, alcohol is the pressing issue here, but this is a big issue for her that you need to fix for her if she's going to want to do this program.

I hate to tell you this, but that will destroy your son.

Please talk with Dr. Harley directly about your wife's alcohol use and anger and about what can be done to create the best future possible for your son.

What I'm asking is: what has led to the loveless, sexless marriage etc? Did it start out that way from day 1, or has it deteriorated over the years?

Respectfully, I have to disagree. Our explicit instructions from Steve were to be flat, without DJ. What I said is, "FYI - I noted that, but it did feel like a DJ because you making assumptions about my motivations." It was derailing and distracting me from listening to her needs, not to mention taking the focus off her needs and placing blame on me.

I'll ask tomorrow when we talk to Steve, but I hardly see that as a lecture or DJ on my part. Maybe I'm wrong... but I don't see how you can productively talk and learn from someone if you can't give that kind of feedback in the moment.