I know that sounds like a weak topic but it is one I need help with. My wife and I have been together for 17+ years married for 12+. We (mostly me) have been struggling with the MB program for nearly a year. When we started my wife told me that she hasn't been in love with me since before we got married. She is in a state of mostly withdrawal. She will peek out briefly from time to time but some action or inaction on my part pushes her back in, making the next trip out more difficult to achieve. With that background what I feel is our biggest problem is trying to date. We have a fun folder as well as a list of ideas that either or both of us like, at least like the idea of. I have tried and continue to try to ask her on dates on ideas from her likes a lot list and "because of her withdrawal state"? get repeatedly declined. Anyone else having or had this problem? How did you get past it without getting completely bummed yourself? How did you keep on? Thanks for any help you can offer.

Welcome to MB.




What have you done to rule out an affair?

We are together more often than not. We both are open with our phones and computers but most of all is that I do trust her.

Your wife has many of the classic signs of having an affair. This is where you should start, as SusieQ suggested. Don't talk about it or ask her; just quietly snoop.

Is there a particular man she talks about? Does she hide her phone? Saying she was never in love with you is a red flag. Most people don't realize they aren't in love with their spouse unless they have a point of comparison.

Spouses should not trust each other. Any one of us can have an affair given the right circumstances.

Have you checked her phone history to see what she's doing? Often, a person in an affair will get a second phone so they can be open with the phone their spouse sees.

The first thing to do is to rule out an affair. If she is having an affair, any steps you take to create a romantic marriage with great dates will be wasted because she is in love with another man.

While you quietly snoop, make sure you eliminate any love busters.

I am not having an affair. Tryinginmd has full access to my cell phone, computer, and knows my every move. That is not the issue or what we need help with.

Would you like me to offer my perspective, or should I start my own thread?

Please feel free to add to this thread cindymoon

I'll wait for an answer from one of the MB veterans. The forum has rules that I don't know. I want to be respectful.

I am super happy you are asking help.

Sounds fine to wait for some additional veteran responses. I believe what you said in your first post

Hi Cindy! Can you please start your own thread and give us your perspective. It would be helpful if you gave us some very specific examples of the behavior that has led you to withdraw.

Generally, it is better for each spouse to have their own thread. It is not a hard rule, but it usually works out better that way.

It is unusual for one spouse to discover that they are not in love. Married couples who have lost their love typically run by habit alone, so unless something disruptive happens, the years-old habit of just living together simply prevails. When affairs happen in such situations, the betrayed spouse is no more in love than the wayward spouse, but the wayward spouse has a point of comparison in their affair partner, and this enables their realization that the love for their marriage partner is missing.

So, if you know you are not in love, how is it that you have come to this knowledge? Knowing how it has happened will help us in advising you on a solution.

I agree with Dr. Harley that if one has to ask themselves if they are in love, they aren't.

I have been advised to start my own thread. Will do that as soon as I'm out of work today. I am so grateful that you each are asking me questions and I am looking forward to answering as soon as I can.

Thanks to all of you who have answered so far. With all due respect, I will continue to believe that my wife is not having an affair. I still would welcome answers from anyone else who has had and dealt with dating a wife in withdrawal. Thanks.

Have you read through the basic concepts on this site? Dr. Harley has also written excellent articles. Have you read the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love, by Dr. Harley? It's an overview of the Marriage Builder program.

Your wife states she will start posting on her own thread, which is a great idea. Meanwhile, make sure you read up Love Busters, and eliminate them from your life.

Would you wife say you are meeting her emotional needs in the way she enjoys? Do you know what her ENs are? For most women, the top two ENs are intimate conversation and affection.

You say that your wife will peek out briefly but some inaction or action on your part drives her away again. What does she say you are doing or not doing?

Let me try to answer your questions and elaborate a bit. We have not read Fall in Love Stay in Love yet. We have read He Wins She Wins, His Needs Her Needs, and Lovebusters. We have worked on the He Wins She wins and 5 Steps to Romantic Love workbooks including the CD's. We have done the online weekend seminar as well as have coaching. Wow with all that and still having the problems we have it sounds like I am realy doing a pretty pathetic try! I think my wife would agree that I have eliminated most of my lovebusters and have none of the abusive lovebusters. I would say that my wife certainly does not feel I am meeting her emotional needs in ways she enjoys. Dating as Recreational Companionship is a huge EN and a huge problem. I think I know what her ENs are. She says that I am not doing the MB program completely. She really wants dating that she enjoys as well as IC and affection that is manifested more with helping her with her personal care rather than affection as often thought of (non sexual physical touch, hugs, cards flowers etc. She does say our not dating is one of the bigger problems. Any suggestions on that issue? Thanks

Which ones have you not eliminated? Do you still debate with her? When was the last time you lovebusted her?

I still have occassional independent behavior. That seems to be the toughest to eliminate completely. I'm not sure what you mean by debating her. I;m not sure when i last lovebusted her but would welcome her anser to that question about me.

Can you give some recent examples?

Your wife told us this a while back:
Are you still debating right versus wrong?

That is really an interesting question. I know that I tend to think of myself as wrong quite often not sure that I would describe it as a debate. Pretty sureit's something I learned about myself doing Imago theapy.

Do you challenge her when she tells you how she thinks/feels? And do you have some examples of IB?