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We have not been arguing about it for days. I did not want to talk about it at all in order to protect my love bank balance. I was hoping she would go on here on her own and ask you guys but she only did that after I suggested it to her in a discussion that deteriorated badly, but for which I apologized minutes later. You guys did point out her LB to her right away but I did not sense a recognition of it coming from her until finally yesterday. So from my perspective, I have not been punishing her or rewarding her IB, I have simply been hiding out since her IB in an emotionally safe place, waiting to sense from her that the "coast is clear" and it is safe to come out of hiding.
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Indiana, I couldn't agree more with what Marcos said.
We are ALL blind at times to our lovebusters, you included.
It doesn't help to go into hiding and stop feeding the marriage until the other person admits guilt. That seems demanding to me.
I know that it doesn't seem fair to play by the rules when she isn't. Don't let that keep you from priming the pump.
Remember when you first turned a corner and how it affected her?
Go back there. Submit to each other. You will both win in the end.
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You are correct that our UA time has been a bit short but we have been having planning meetings regularly. Her mothers slow recovery from open heart surgery has demanded extra time lately and harvest is a very busy time every year. Fitting it all in has been very difficult. In years past we have tried to equalize it later by taking some 7 day vacations after all the winter preparations are complete. Getting through the crunch however is always a strain.
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How many hours per week do you spend on undivided attention? What do you do on your dates?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You are correct that this is a murderous pattern in our marriage. You are also correct that we are all blind at times to our own LB and I do include myself. However, this goes beyond occasional blindness to deep denial with blame-shifting and severe disability to admit mistakes. I was undoubtedly the person of my generation closest to my father-in-law (God rest his soul) and over the 30+years I knew the man he NEVER admitted fault, even when confronted in my presence with the abuse (including physical) of his daughters. Once I personally received the blame for him hurting himself. My mother-in-law was too afraid to confront or separate. This is the parental example my wife witnessed. When she asked you concerning her recent IB she used words like "impossible" because she actually really could not accept or admit to herself or anyone else that she had done anything to hurt me. Then you will find in her posts her attempt to shift the blame to me, she is the one being hurt by me. She should separate from me because my actions are the ONLY reasons we have a poor marriage. Call all of this DJ if you like but I know my churning gut,sweats, sleeplessness, and depression are not lying to me. This last go-round is just an example of the countless circuits through the desert outside the promised land in the last 33 years. If she leaves now it is probably for the better, I don't think my health can take any more.
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Stop trying to make her admit blame and focus on being a pleasant, loving husband. No one wants to live with a scold who tries to force admissions of guilt. LEad by example!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You are correct that this is a murderous pattern in our marriage. You are also correct that we are all blind at times to our own LB and I do include myself. However, this goes beyond occasional blindness to deep denial with blame-shifting and severe disability to admit mistakes. I was undoubtedly the person of my generation closest to my father-in-law (God rest his soul) and over the 30+years I knew the man he NEVER admitted fault, even when confronted in my presence with the abuse (including physical) of his daughters. Once I personally received the blame for him hurting himself. My mother-in-law was too afraid to confront or separate. This is the parental example my wife witnessed. When she asked you concerning her recent IB she used words like "impossible" because she actually really could not accept or admit to herself or anyone else that she had done anything to hurt me. Then you will find in her posts her attempt to shift the blame to me, she is the one being hurt by me. She should separate from me because my actions are the ONLY reasons we have a poor marriage. Call all of this DJ if you like but I know my churning gut,sweats, sleeplessness, and depression are not lying to me. This last go-round is just an example of the countless circuits through the desert outside the promised land in the last 33 years. If she leaves now it is probably for the better, I don't think my health can take any more. Even if all of this were true, it does not prevent you from being constructive about the situation instead of destructive. Your selfish instincts led you to vomit this garbage out because your stomach is churning. But knowingly DJing your wife here and threatening to leave are destructive ways of satisfying your taker. This is the messy pattern you both repeat. Trust me that I know from experience, that when you follow the program things will change over time. You will feel much better if you stop trying to solve the irrational past by arguing to prove fault. This applies to your wife as well, but don't you tell her that. No counselor needed. Firm up your relaxation skills and MOVE FORWARD! "Honey, I'm sorry that we disagreed. I would love for us to move forward. I would love it if you would go out to dinner with me tonight?"
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I have not been punishing her She says you had an AO. That is the ultimate punishment. However, this goes beyond occasional blindness to deep denial with blame-shifting and severe disability to admit mistakes. Your disrespect of your wife is scathing. What are you doing about that?
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We have not been arguing about it for days. I did not want to talk about it at all in order to protect my love bank balance. I was hoping she would go on here on her own and ask you guys but she only did that after I suggested it to her in a discussion that deteriorated badly, but for which I apologized minutes later. You guys did point out her LB to her right away but I did not sense a recognition of it coming from her until finally yesterday. So from my perspective, I have not been punishing her or rewarding her IB, I have simply been hiding out since her IB in an emotionally safe place, waiting to sense from her that the "coast is clear" and it is safe to come out of hiding. Okay, so do this: First stop arguing with her and trying to get her to agree with you.
Then start trying to spend enjoyable time with her again. She may decline at first. Let her decline. But keep coming back and trying again. Show over time that if she will start spending time with you again she will not end up in an argument with you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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You are correct that our UA time has been a bit short but we have been having planning meetings regularly. Her mothers slow recovery from open heart surgery has demanded extra time lately and harvest is a very busy time every year. Fitting it all in has been very difficult. In years past we have tried to equalize it later by taking some 7 day vacations after all the winter preparations are complete. Getting through the crunch however is always a strain. Equalizing UA later works about as well as "I'll sleep when I'm dead." I don't recommend it at all. This is like trying to run an engine when the oil is old and half burned up and gone from leaks, without changing the oil. UA time is the oil for your life.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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You are correct that this is a murderous pattern in our marriage. You are also correct that we are all blind at times to our own LB and I do include myself. However, this goes beyond occasional blindness to deep denial with blame-shifting and severe disability to admit mistakes. I was undoubtedly the person of my generation closest to my father-in-law (God rest his soul) and over the 30+years I knew the man he NEVER admitted fault, even when confronted in my presence with the abuse (including physical) of his daughters. Once I personally received the blame for him hurting himself. My mother-in-law was too afraid to confront or separate. This is the parental example my wife witnessed. When she asked you concerning her recent IB she used words like "impossible" because she actually really could not accept or admit to herself or anyone else that she had done anything to hurt me. Then you will find in her posts her attempt to shift the blame to me, she is the one being hurt by me. She should separate from me because my actions are the ONLY reasons we have a poor marriage. Call all of this DJ if you like but I know my churning gut,sweats, sleeplessness, and depression are not lying to me. This last go-round is just an example of the countless circuits through the desert outside the promised land in the last 33 years. If she leaves now it is probably for the better, I don't think my health can take any more. Okay, so do this: First stop arguing with her and trying to get her to agree with you.
Then start trying to spend enjoyable time with her again. She may decline at first. Let her decline. But keep coming back and trying again. Show over time that if she will start spending time with you again she will not end up in an argument with you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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"First off, angry outbursts by either spouse prevents recovery. No marital problems can be solved if one spouse has even a very occasional angry outburst. Whatever the anger is related to, it makes a solution impossible." "I regard angry outbursts as the worst Love Buster. That's because it's not only physically and emotionally dangerous to the other spouse, but it completely eliminates the possibility of marital problem solving. For most couples we try to help, if they can't stop their angry outbursts, nothing else works. They can't follow the Policy of Joint Agreement and they can't follow the Policy of Undivided Attention. Without those two rules in place, there's no hope for a satisfying marriage.
So you must do everything in your power to stop all angry outbursts completely." "Early on, I came to recognize that angry outbursts are probably the most damaging thing a spouse can do in marriage. I say this in spite of my recognition that infidelity is also a very damaging behavior. But I'm often more optimistic about the recovery of a marriage that has suffered from infidelity than than recovery of a marriage that suffers from angry outbursts. The primary reason that angry outbursts just about eliminate the hope of marital happiness is that even if they are very infrequent, they prevent a couple from solving their problems because the threat always hangs over every conversation. The first guideline for marital negotiation is to make the discussion pleasant and safe, and an angry spouse fails that very first condition, making the rest of it impossible to implement. Angry spouses simply create an environment that makes it impossible to make marital adjustments. That's why I advise couples with multiple problems that include anger to overcome the anger first, and then focus on the rest of the problems later." "In some cases, I've recommended separation when one spouse doesn't take their angry outbursts seriously. For those who have not experienced physical abuse, they often feel that separation is too extreme. But I know for a fact as a clinical psychologist that angry outbursts are a form of temporary insanity, and most people who have angry outbursts cannot control what they do. In some cases, the very first angry outburst that became physical resulted in permanently injured or even death. The angry spouse has no idea that they would hurt their spouse so badly until it had already happened. Then they are grief-stricken at what took place. Angry outbursts must be completely eliminated in marriage, or the marriage is too dangerous to continue." Prisca:
How is Markos doing with his anger management program? A point we often make is that if angry outbursts are not eliminated from a marriage, no other problems can be solved.
Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
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Angry Outbursts are the final and most inappropriate form of abuse and control. As long as either spouse can�t control their anger, their marriage has little hope of improving or being fulfilling. It�s not only an ineffective way to overcome problems, but it is also very dangerous. There are many cases every year of people who killed or maimed their spouse in a fit of rage, where they never thought they would do such a thing. I usually recommend that overcoming angry outbursts, and all other forms of abuse and control (demands and disrespectful judgments) be eliminated before trying to resolve conflicts, or even trying to meet emotional needs. Your sincere effort to please a controlling and abusive husband puts you in a dangerous position both emotionally and physically. So until your husband learns to control his temper, I wouldn�t even consider trying to meet his emotional needs.
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She told you I had an AO but I am certain she did not admit to you her AO because this is the main issue over which she is in denial. I have not been calling it AO for so long I just now realized I have not been using that title with you either. Above I described it as her "unpleasant way of speaking to me". For so many years now I have received such firm denial and reprimand for the slightest hint that she was having an AO that I stopped using the word to describe her behavior. I guess it's a habit. I can assure you that her IB last week was the action of an AO, but she mostly chooses verbal attack. During our "discussion" before she stormed away she got loud, repeatedly interrupted me while I was speaking, and used words and phrases like "impossible" and "this is stupid". When the children were smaller she would sometimes yell at them so loudly I could hear it 30 yards from the house. Loudly interrupting me with phrases such as "YOU ARE WRONG" and just this past Sunday " A BIG FAT LIE" when she is clearly angry is an AO to me no matter how many years she vehemently denies it. But wait, that's not all. In the past she has thrown books and kitchen utensils across the room and onto the table, slammed doors and punched me in the arm and chest clearly while angry. I am not telling you this to bad-mouth my wife, shift blame or justify my actions. I have plenty I of personal work to do. I am simply giving you information so you have full knowledge from which to counsel me. This may help explain things.
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So, what are you going to do about your disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts? What is your plan?
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She told you I had an AO but I am certain she did not admit to you her AO because this is the main issue over which she is in denial. ... I am simply giving you information so you have full knowledge from which to counsel me. This may help explain things. Okay, now that we have the full picture, this is what you need to do: First stop arguing with her and trying to get her to agree with you.
Then start trying to spend enjoyable time with her again. She may decline at first. Let her decline. But keep coming back and trying again. Show over time that if she will start spending time with you again she will not end up in an argument with you. This is what you need to do to bring your marriage back from this situation.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I am not sure what to do about my lack of respect for her. I believe that, to a degree, respect is earned. A few pages back in my post I asked you guys about my wife showing up late for an agreed upon time whether this is disrespectful to me and someone said that it is. This recent go-round was just another example in a long history of this practice. It is part of this "murderous pattern": tell my husband I agree to..../ not follow through with what I say/ blame my husband or someone or something else for not not following through. I could not tell you how many plans for weight-lose I have graciously agreed to/supported/agreed to pay for that were ineffective over the last 20 years and she is still over-weight. This ingrained behavior does not earn respect with me. What do you suggest?
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This ingrained behavior does not earn respect with me. What do you suggest? Writing disrespectful posts like this is not likely to motivate her to want to do anything. Do you want her to be enthusiastic about your marriage? Because your approach will not be very effective.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Am I remembering correctly that Dr. Harley asked to drop the weight loss issue because the request was unreasonable?
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First of all I am not writing this post to her I am writing it to you and secondly from my perspective carrying extra weight for 20+years for a time breaching the obesity threshold is a health issue. The healthies and longest living people in the world are those who are not over weight. I made this case to Dr. Harley in an email and never got a reply . This issue will almost undoubtedly affect our marriage in the future and it is a situation to which I have never been in enthusiastic agreement. Thirdly I was merely using the weight loss issue as an example of the pattern. I have not mentioned weight loss to my wife since the broadcast
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