That sounds like a good idea Didntquit. I'll try that.

I have another situation though. She started back going to her lunch martial arts class today. It's the same one OM used to go to until I talked to the instructor and got him banned from going. So I don't mind her going too much. But she mentioned she might go to the evening class tomorrow night. Which means I wouldn't see her all day until after 9pm. I definitely don't want her going to that. I can tolerate the lunch class for now. But am I supposed to tell her my concerns about going in the evening or hold off a little while?

I know it's going to cause her to fight with me and say "I'm not willing to give that up". That's what happened the last time I tried to stop her. We had been going together for a few months in the evenings, but I don't know if I can go anymore since the instructor got angry/worried after I exposed to some of the other members. And its hard to find a babysitter multiple nights per week.

She already knows how you feel about it. But if you try to control her then you will destroy her motivation to follow the POJA in the future. So the most you can do is let her know that you would like to join her at the class again or that you don't feel good about her going. Beyond that, there's nothing you can do.

Now is not the time to inflict the program on her. It is the time for you to win her back. Choose your battles wisely. Keep snooping and if you get evidence that she has started her affair again, or you can't handle the craziness of limbo, then you might need to move with your parents and plan B. But I would suggest that you stay with Dr. H's advice, so that she gives up any thought of you leaving and her moving OM into the house. Be consistent like clockwork.

Something else to consider is that in order to properly recover or maintain your marriage, you need at least 15 UA Hours. I would start transitioning your mindset now, or your current efforts will be wasted.

You have got to start thinking of how to be a couple regardless of the kids!!! That's how the OM has a leg up on you. As far as I am concerned, if a man can't find time to date his wife then he shouldn't have one. Of course the opposite is true.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that you aren't really listening daily to the radio show. If this is true, then that is a huge mistake. Please figure out how to do this, even if it means paying $50.

You are right Didntquit. I did stop listening to the show for the past month while she was in full wayward mode. But I started back yesterday and today and plan to listen everyday.

I am seeing more improvement today. She hasn't lost her temper in a week. That is a record for her I think. And she isn't acting sneaky, but I am afraid and discouraged that we are just getting along because she sees me as a friend and housekeeper while she talks with OM. And it drives me absolutely crazy how she bathes with the door open and walks in the bedroom naked, but covers up as soon as I walk by. I don't understand why she doesn't just shut the door and get dressed with the door shut. And I also think about her probably not rushing to cover up if OM were to walk in.

Do you think it will hurt to ask her once per day or every other day if she had any contact? It would make me feel better because at least she will have to lie if she is. One of her things before was that she didn't technically lie about the affair because I never asked.

We almost seem like very close friends right now. I'm afraid she may get used to that and then never want to be intimate with me again. I wonder if that ever happens?

At what point am I supposed to start moving to the next level, like asking for transparency and all that? I am sure she will like to keep our current state for a long time if I don't up the pressure after a little while.

One more question:

When I try to show physical affection like putting my arm around her or rubbing her shoulder or snuggling in the bed, she stops me after a minute or so. Should I stop doing this if it's aggravating her, or keep doing it until she stops me?

When I would do this last month, she would angrily say "stop" after about 3 seconds. The past couple weeks she let's me go a little longer, and then she says "stop", but she gives me an excuse now like "stop, you are making my shoulder itch" or "stop it's too hot, I need some airflow between us."

Should I stop aggravating her or is it kind of the same with the flowers, where she is resisting because it's having a positive effect?

Forgot to mention too, that our 8 year anniversary is in 6 days.

Send Dr. Harley another email and update him since it's been a few months since you've heard from him.

I'd try some other form of affectionate touch. Clutching her is going to feel awkward for both of you for awhile. And to her, maybe right now, if feels like prison. At least her reaction as you've explained sounds to be the case. So instead of clutching her I would recommend just placing a soft hand on her now and again. Nothing prolonged and before she can say stop then take it away. Brief little moments of physical contact and done occasionally. Leave her wanting more. Maybe just a gentle touch on her shoulder or small of her back. Worth trying I would think.

She's resisting because she isn't ready for too much physicality. Wait for her to give you signs that she wants more. But keep doing small things to draw her in.

Ok Brainhurts, I'll update Dr. Harley today.

Thanks for rhe info Mr.Alias. I started doing what you are describing for the past couple days. It seems to be better for now I think.

She seems to be happy and cheerful and friendly with me right now. I just worry constantly that it's because she is cake eating though. But she does seem to be improving toward me too, so at least that's good.

What should I do about our anniversary coming up tuesday? Do I plan something big or keep it small or what? I will probably have flowers and a card sent to her at work, and try to go on a date that night. Is that enough or too much?

I would think that would be enough IF what you do on your date night (should she accept) is enough. A fun, positive dinner with no negatives will be something she'll remember. Enjoy your time with her and let your enjoyment with her show through.

You put far too much thought into what she's thinking. You'll never be able to read her mind so stop trying. Keep up a great Plan A and watch for signs that she's coming back to you. From what you've described things have shifted direction a bit. So take encouragement from that and build up your Plan A momentum.

As far as the cake-eating your snooping has to prove that she's not.

Dr. Harley emailed me back and said to set a date in my mind for plan B. He said to gently persuade her to join me on a path to recovery and if nothing changes by the date I set, to consider plan B.

It's going to be hard to set a date with all the holidays coming up soon. Maybe I should pick a date around January 2nd.

Now I just have to find ways to "gently persuade" her.

You have already been in Plan A for 6 months, right? I'd set the day sooner than January. Give her an AMAZING anniversary, then go to Plan B the next day.

I was thinking about going sooner too Prisca. We went to the movies Friday night and laughed at eachothers jokes and got along good, but that was about it. I'm not sure if she will allow me to do much for our anniversary tuesday, I may have to cook a nice meal at home and buy a bunch of roses or something. We have a Halloween party this Saturday, so I may be extra special for that and then head to plan B the next day.

She was angry at the world all day today, getting frustrated with the kids very easily and just waiting for me to slip up so she could tear into me and rip my throat out. I didn't give her an opportunity though.

I'm wearing down though, because she lets me touch her less than she did a week or two ago. She pulls away now as soon as I lay a hand on her shoulder or leg.

I dread the coming storm of the fit she is going to throw when I finally leave. I'll ask y'all for help with the plan B letter a few days before I leave, but do I say anything to her when I leave or just be gone before she gets home?

This sounds like a good plan. Do it.

Don't say anything to her -- just go. Give her a GREAT memory of what life could be like with you, then go.

Start working on the Plan B letter now.

Read:
How to Plan B Correctly

IM Training School

I believe there's a Plan B sample letter in Surviving an Affair. Read up on that, too.

Thanks Prisca

It's going to be hard to find a good intermediary. I was planning on using my mom or WW's sister, but after reading that link it doesn't sound like a good idea.

Plan B is very scary the closer I get to it. Some moments I'm ready to leave that instant and then later I'm scared to death.

What if WW really hasn't talked to OM since she said she hasnt? Will that make my leaving seem worse like it's my fault I can't keep going?

And since I haven't mentioned transparency or moving or recovery in about 6 or 7 weeks, should I start bringing that up again so she can't say "why did you leave? You quit talking about transparency and did t give me a chance to do it?"

First of all, your WW broke the marriage vows and blew up a nuclear bomb. She ended the marriage, not you. You have every right to divorce her because of her infidelity. It's not your fault you can't keep going.

As for her saying what you wrote, that is exactly what your Plan B letter is for. She agrees to the extraordinary precautions or your intermediary replies that you are too hurt to communicate with her, but when she is ready to commit to the marriage and agree to the extraordinary precautions you will be more than willing to try again (until you're not, but you can let the IM know if you ever decide to move on).

You shouldn't take this path again. You tried this in the past and it made the situation more combative and stressed you out. You can say all this in your Plan B letter and she can reject it or accept it. In the past she has rejected it many, many times so you can't say you didn't give her a chance. You gave her a 100 chances; she rejected them.

I get it. What if, What if, What if...

You can't control the What if's. At the point of Plan B, you can finally control YOUR life. You have given her a taste of your willingness, and the letter will tell her that you are still willing. If you are in a proper Plan B, you won't be hearing any of those questions from her, because you will be dark.

Just focus on planning a great anniversary for her. Along with dinner, you might prepare a gift that will be there for her to see when you are gone.


There are some ideas in the links below:

Archived: Anniversaries

Archived: Creative Affection

Man, the radio show today was pretty discouraging at the end. When Dr. Harley was saying if the lady's husband doesn't want to be transparent and thinks the EP's are controlling, he said that means there is no hope for the marriage.

That's what I have been dealing with for the most part. She eventually agreed to transparency at one point for a month or so, but she resisted it nearly every few days.