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VAR will be in place for the week. WW will be stuck home with sick kids, they both have pink eye and croup.
Mel, I understand the much lower value of watcher now that it is known. One very important thing has happened though, she has broken her dependence on texting. She had over 2000 msg last cycle. She would txt facili-SIL as much as OM, so her head was constantly being filled with bad advice. She has stopped txt to all SILs and OM.
WW attitude has changed dramatically. She is remorseful and is striving to meet my EN. She made dinner last night for the first time in nearly 2 months.
When she visited her parents Friday, she was belittled, berated and shamed. That afternoon OM sent her the only txt to her phone since NC request. I accused and blamed her for unblocking, when in reality I didn't properly block by changing her number.
She has told me repeatedly that it is over, and she is fearful of OM. She has apologized for putting our family and our marriage at risk.
We have begun meeting each other's needs for SF again. I am cautiously optimistic. Feel free to temper my optimism with reality. I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but you should know that none of the above will prevent an affair. None of it. You must have good spy resources in place and you must have a plan to move.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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VAR will be in place for the week. WW will be stuck home with sick kids, they both have pink eye and croup.
Mel, I understand the much lower value of watcher now that it is known. One very important thing has happened though, she has broken her dependence on texting. She had over 2000 msg last cycle. She would txt facili-SIL as much as OM, so her head was constantly being filled with bad advice. She has stopped txt to all SILs and OM.
WW attitude has changed dramatically. She is remorseful and is striving to meet my EN. She made dinner last night for the first time in nearly 2 months.
When she visited her parents Friday, she was belittled, berated and shamed. That afternoon OM sent her the only txt to her phone since NC request. I accused and blamed her for unblocking, when in reality I didn't properly block by changing her number.
She has told me repeatedly that it is over, and she is fearful of OM. She has apologized for putting our family and our marriage at risk.
We have begun meeting each other's needs for SF again. I am cautiously optimistic. Feel free to temper my optimism with reality. I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but you should know that none of the above will prevent an affair. None of it. You must have good spy resources in place and you must have a plan to move. Agree. The changed attitude really doesn't mean anything. Like I posted to you before, serial cheaters are KNOWN for being remorseful and agreeing to everything and then backtracking over time. You need to get away from this OM and implement ironclad EPs for LIFE.
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Has her number been changed?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Yes, immediately after OM text threat.
We spent the day together working on house purging clutter, gearing up to list house. It will be a long process but progress was made. WW was remorseful and loving all day.
When we are apart last week, her mood shifted to anger or resentment. I haven't seen that this weekend. Tomorrow will be a big test with VAR.
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No data from VAR yet. Kids are home sick with WW. Security cameras are on order; some will be known some will be hidden. I think I will "uninstall" watcher today to restore stealth  . I'm not letting down my guard, but WW is acting much different and it seems like she has let go of OM.
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VAR has not provided any new data. Watcher is back in stealth mode, and there have not been any indications of contact or attempted contact. WW has been with sick kids all week. She has maintained steady contact with me throughout each day. She has not been seeking advice from SIL at all. She has been consistently expressing remorse, and gratitude for my willingness to work on M.
We are trying to expedite house sale. We are working on the HNHN seminar DVDs. WW and I have been reading and listening to SAA. We completed th EN questionnaire yesterday but haven't discussed it yet. We are both working on the LB questionnaire today.
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Good job!!! One of the most critical components of creating romantic love is the policy of undivided attention. The program doesn't work without this step. Dr. Harley recommends 4 - 4 hour dates per week. We sit down on Sunday afternoon and plan out our dates using this worksheet: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/FiveSteps_Time_for_Undivided_Attention_Worksheet.pdfThat worksheet is in the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook in the book store.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We have spent all free time together, and have worked on SF every night this week. We are going to MC today, armed with SAA, LB, Five Steps workbook, HNHN, questionnaires, and an enthusiastic agreement that if MC doesn't want to help us according to the plans laid out in MB materials, we will not go back. WW wants to go to help us work through my potential resentment, our communication issues, and issues with SF in past. I want to go to make sure of her understanding of new boundaries regarding the way she relates to men in general. She has always had a provocative sense of humor, and that must change (except when used with me.)
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WW wants to go to help us work through my potential resentment, our communication issues, and issues with SF in past. The solution to these issues is all in Marriage Builders. We address every single one of them. I am not sure what it means to "work through resentment." What does that even mean? 1. resentment. This is resolved by creating a fantastic, romantic marriage. When one is happy in the present, the mind does not tend to go to the past. if you don't create a happy, fulfilling marriage, your resentment WILL GROW 2. communication. this is a very minor problem that is resolved by creating romantic love. People in love don't have "communication" problems - this seems to be a popular buzzword in the counseling culture 3. not sure what SF issues you had, but 90% of them are resolved by creating romantic love I am very concerned that you are going to a marriage counselor, because most do not even BELIEVE that romantic love is possible and have no earthly idea how to achieve it. Instead, they destroy the remnants of remaining love between a couple by placing them in a room together to lovebust each other. This is exactly why Dr Harley does not believe in counseling couples together when their marriage is in a state of crisis. They leave the session worse off than when they went in. I want to go to make sure of her understanding of new boundaries regarding the way she relates to men in general. She has always had a provocative sense of humor, and that must change (except when used with me.) It is good that you are having this discussion but what if the MC doesn't understand how destructive opposite sex friendships are to a marriage? Then you are screwed. Does your wife understand she can't have opposite sex friendships? Does she accept this? Does she understand she should never have a personal conversation with a man?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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In short, Marriage Builders concepts are in direct conflict with traditional counseling. Dr Harley believes - and so do I - that traditional counseling is destructive to marriages.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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WW and I are solidly in agreement that if MC does not understand or follow MB principles, we will not discuss anything else.
SF issues stemmed from loss of romantic love due to my very low T and very low libido. This is being fixed now, and results are already evident after first injection.
WW understands concerns about friendships with opposite sex, but I am not sure she understands fully what other changes are needed (using innuendo as humor device with anyone but me, private conversations, etc.)
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WW and I are solidly in agreement that if MC does not understand or follow MB principles, we will not discuss anything else. Good! And I would also agree beforehand that you NEVER commit lovebusters in your sessions. If you are invited to discuss negativity about the other person, the sessions will harm you. The solution is to stay entirely focused on your PLAN for a great marriage. If you go there and rehash the past, you are doomed. SF issues stemmed from loss of romantic love due to my very low T and very low libido. This is being fixed now, and results are already evident after first injection. Perfect, and I would agree 100% with your assessment. WW understands concerns about friendships with opposite sex, but I am not sure she understands fully what other changes are needed (using innuendo as humor device with anyone but me, private conversations, etc.) I would be crystal CLEAR in expressing what bothers you in her communication. She needs this kind of guidance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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WW and I are solidly in agreement that if MC does not understand or follow MB principles, we will not discuss anything else. Critical questions for your MC would be: do you agree with our objective of creating romantic love? do you agree that we need to work on steps to create a great marriage while AVOIDING the bad things from the past? See, if she encourages you to dredge up every bad feeling from the past, the sessions will be destructive.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Session completed. She does believe in creating romantic love. She encouraged us to continue SF, but to focus equally on RC, conversation, openness and honesty.
She did say that the past things may need to be discussed, but that building our love now is most critical. Afterwards, WW and I talked, and she agreed that the past should stay in the past.
She suggested that WW look up narcissist and sociopath to see which traits could be attributed to OM, stating that WW was likely groomed during prior interactions. ??
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She suggested that WW look up narcissist and sociopath to see which traits could be attributed to OM, stating that WW was likely groomed during prior interactions. ??
She suggested that YOUR WIFE look up these things, in order to analyse OM?  The OM she should be putting firmly out of her mind?  If this marriage counsellor believes that people who have affairs might be narcissists and sociopaths, what does that say about your wife? Is she aware that your wife had an affair before? How about she talks to your wife about strengthening her poor boundaries, instead of encouraging her to focus on OM's personality? This counsellor will harm your marriage, and you should ditch her. We warned you about this, and her lack of expertise raised its head in the very first session. She said what you wanted her to say about agreeing with Dr Harley, but then she reverted to her own methods, which include talking about the past.  Of course she agreed that you should work on SF, RC and conversation and O&H. Who in their right minds would say that these were wrong? But to her, O&H means rehashing the affair, and as for getting your wife to think more about OM... She is a danger to your recovery. You have been warned.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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She did say that the past things may need to be discussed, but that building our love now is most critical. Afterwards, WW and I talked, and she agreed that the past should stay in the past. Good, because dredging up the past might be great for the bank account of therapists, but it is not good for the clients! It is a good way to keep clients coming back for YEARS to dredge up the past. She suggested that WW look up narcissist and sociopath to see which traits could be attributed to OM, stating that WW was likely groomed during prior interactions. ?? This type of advice is what we were worried about. The OM should not be discussed at all. Dr Harleys advice would be to never bring him up again. MOST people in an affair have all the traits of a narcissist so this is a moronic exercise. You can go look up your wife and find the same traits.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She suggested that WW look up narcissist and sociopath to see which traits could be attributed to OM, stating that WW was likely groomed during prior interactions. ?? If you exercise appropriate boundaries, then it doesn't matter what other people are doing. Your door would be shut to "grooming". This is extremely dangerous thinking for a repeat offender like your W, to scape goat the affair onto the OM when she just needs to look at her OWN affair-proofing behavior. Oh boy.
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WW and I both thought that request was strange, to say the least. We talked more about this evening, and will not be going back.
We are both committed to the MB program.
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WW and I both thought that request was strange, to say the least. We talked more about this evening, and will not be going back.
We are both committed to the MB program. *RELIEF* We can help you through this program. Will you pick up the workbook and Lovebusters? And you do have Surviving an Affair, right?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You can also get free advice from Dr Harley on his radio show if you need it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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