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How did the affair end? Who was the affair exposed to on your side and hers? How do you know he has no contact with her, do you have any methods in place to confirm that?

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Please tell us what has been done from this list.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by DRSLB
OMG. No, I don't realize this. I feel like I am going insane now.. like we have been going around in circles and circles for a couple of years now. Is he really gas lighting me?

YES.
Absolutely.

Originally Posted by DRSLB
He did feel very very sorry while he was having the affair and definitely after. But he just feels now that it is in the past. And his hurt still happens everyday.

He felt super sorry about having an affair right in front of your face? Can you see how ridiculous that claim is? And what difference does it make? It's okay to betray you as long as he feels really bad about it?

Originally Posted by DRSLB
I have said the WORST things that any wife can possibly say to their husband. I have treated him Terribly. He has been made to feel like a failure, not a good provider, not even a real man. I have told him he is average looking and I have never shown any interest in initiating sex or intimate conversation (this is actually one of his main emotional needs.) Our relationship was superficial and not very deep. I wasn't very open or honest with him ever. Honestly he should have ended our marriage because of how unhappy he was.

Questions for you:
1. Did he tell you his needs were not being met, and what they were, before having an affair?
2. Are you still having angry outbursts?
3. Are you still insulting him?
4. Are you still never initiating IC with him (or showing know interest if he tries to initiate a conversation with you)?
5. Are you being honest with him about your needs now?

You both did bad things to each other in the past. (Though what he did was arguably much worse.)

If he is so angry about your prior bad behavior that he prefers mentally torturing you now to making an honest effort to have a happy, fulfilling marriage with you, then what is the point from YOUR perspective in being married to him?

Let's say you were previously the worst wife EVER. Satan's little Sister in the flesh! Does he want to have a happy, fulfilling marriage with you, or just keep you around so he can punish you for the rest of your miserable life? What motivation do you have to be married to a person who has such animosity toward you?

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Now I am feeling like maybe I am being too trusting? He never denied the affair after her told me about it. I took a totally different approach after I had found out, (did not know any of this info then) and tried to be understanding of why he found himself in the affair situation in the first place. I understand ultimately it is because he let another woman meet his needs, but why were his needs not being met? That went on for 5 months until he realized what he was doing to me and he ended all contact. I can't imagine that the OW would have gone one for this long almost 2 years with little contact and him having not left me yet.

I just have been very trusting that he has actually ended all contact. What kind of spy ware do you even put on devices? I have no idea about this.

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Please tell us what has been done from this list.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

I had exposed the affair to his family and her family and close mutual friends.
We spend leisure time together
I have access and take care of all of the banking
He has made a commitment to me to end all communications
I know his whereabouts at all times
He has revealed any information that I had asked about the affair

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We have seen affairs that go on and off for years here.

Even if he isn't engaged in the same way he was, any contact at all, even looking at her Facebook page, can keep him invested in the OW and keep his mindset wayward. And he definitely sounds like he still has a wayward mindset.

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How did the affair end?

I am guessing she broke up with him. It is very unusual for a man to just 'come to his senses' as men enjoy having their needs met by multiple women.


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Yes, preaffair, we didn't necessarily know that our needs weren't being met.. we would always end up arguing about sex. After the affair, HE realized what was missing was intimate conversation, open honesty... (these are actually needs of his that weren't being met, but he can never communicate this to me).

YES, up until about 3 weeks ago (before I read "his needs her needs and love busters") I was still having angry outbursts and beiing disrespectful. I find initiating IC very challenging. I think this has to do with my parental role models and family life growing up which was always very superficial and shallow. Once he opens up and is receptive to any attempts I make, I find it easier.

I do feel like I am being honest about my needs now... but is whole thing is he doesn't want this to be a "one way street". He feels I am incapable (or unwilling? Don't care enough) to meet his needs... so until I figure out how to, he is withholding from meeting mine.

And why stay married? The alternative seems to me seems very scary and because I actually do still love him.

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Originally Posted by DRSLB
Now I am feeling like maybe I am being too trusting? He never denied the affair after her told me about it. I took a totally different approach after I had found out, (did not know any of this info then) and tried to be understanding of why he found himself in the affair situation in the first place. I understand ultimately it is because he let another woman meet his needs, but why were his needs not being met? That went on for 5 months until he realized what he was doing to me and he ended all contact. I can't imagine that the OW would have gone one for this long almost 2 years with little contact and him having not left me yet.

I just have been very trusting that he has actually ended all contact. What kind of spy ware do you even put on devices? I have no idea about this.

DRS, the above approach is the reason why you can't recover. Instead of understanding the destructive nature of his affair, you have basically enabled him and offered inappropriate forgiveness. Because of this, he feels no obligation whatsoever to recover your marriage. And why should he, since you have allowed him to blame you. Why would he change when he is not accountable? You, the victim, is being blamed for his crimes.

You are very much like the battered wife who comes here and tells us she CAUSED her beatings because she didn't have dinner ready on time. As such, the wifebeater has no reason to change his behavior.

The analogy of the battered wife is somewhat inappropriate because adultery is much more damaging and traumatic, but hopefully you get the point.

The biggest issues here are this:

1. your husband is neglecting you horribly

2. you are enabling this horrible neglect

3. you reduce your own value to your husband by allowing him to mistreat you. it makes you look very unattractive to be hanging around making yourself available to be mistreated


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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[quote=unwritten]How did the affair end?

He ended it with her. He was stringing both of us along and then he said he finally realized what he was actually doing to me, and he choose me. He said what he wanted most in life was for ME to look at him and treat him the way the OW did. He has severe "mommy issues" about never being good enough for a woman. Also, I had reinforced that feeling during our marriage.

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Originally Posted by DRSLB
I do feel like I am being honest about my needs now... but is whole thing is he doesn't want this to be a "one way street". He feels I am incapable (or unwilling? Don't care enough) to meet his needs... so until I figure out how to, he is withholding from meeting mine.

And this is a deal breaker. If he refuses to meet your needs you should separate. I would guess his abuse has caused emotional and physical damage from the suffering. This is why Dr Harley only recommends that women tolerate this mistreatment for 3 weeks, they have nervous breakdowns and suffer psychosomatic illnesses.

You could have been meeting your husbands emotional needs 100% and he would have still had an affair if his love bank was open to other women.

Please note that he has done a pathetic job of meeting your needs and you didnt have an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by unwritten
How did the affair end?

I am guessing she broke up with him. It is very unusual for a man to just 'come to his senses' as men enjoy having their needs met by multiple women.

I agree. Either she broke up with him, or more likely, the affair never ended. He just took it further underground.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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DRS, honestly, you are going to have step it up here and be more assertive if you want to save your marriage. You have lowered the bar SO LOW for your husband that he is just living DOWN to your expectations.

You can't save a marriage when you are an enabler.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by unwritten
if you divorce, how will you handle that? Will you live in the same house and continue to share a business? Of course not. You are headed for divorce right now, either that or living in a miserable marriage until you have a mental breakdown. You CAN seperate, people do it every day. If you divorce you will have to.

How have you been for the last 18-24 months, during and post affair? Have you been terrible and abusive? Or have you been trying hard to meet his needs and avoid love busters?

I just really found out about marriage builders a couple weeks ago. HE found the book "His needs, Her needs" read it and then shared it with me. I went on to read "Love Busters". The past 2 years have been a roller coaster of me trying (most times unsuccessfully) to meet his needs, then angry outbursts, disrespectful language, terrible fights... and then the cycle repeats. The fights are less now because he is withdrawn and I am more in control of my anger...

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Thanks, this article has been very helpful. I do believe that some gaslighting has been going on.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The biggest issues here are this:

1. your husband is neglecting you horribly

2. you are enabling this horrible neglect

3. you reduce your own value to your husband by allowing him to mistreat you. it makes you look very unattractive to be hanging around making yourself available to be mistreated

Thanks for your blunt honesty here. I am beginning to see this now. My questions are how do I even begin to repair this, when I have enabled him this long? When I accepted and forgave what he has done? When I trusted that he has ended it? When I have allowed him to not meet my needs for so long (because I believed didn't I wasn't deserving of having them met)?

Last edited by DRSLB; 12/02/16 09:55 AM.
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How do I change this RIGHT NOW... when I have been an enabler for so long? When I had accepted and forgave him for the affair? When I have accepted not having my needs met? When the bar has been set SO low by me?

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New to marriage builders and my husband and I have both read "His needs her needs". I have read "Love Busters".

We have prioritized our needs and my husbands are:
-intimate conversation/open honesty (surprisingly *his major need)
-sexual relations
-attractive spouse
-admiration (but he actually doesn't receive compliments well, and gets mad when I do compliment him)
-recreational partner

I should preface this with we are rebuilding after he had an affair... not in the way marriage builders recommends, but we just came across this work very recently.

So my question is... even though the above are my husband's needs.. he says his real need is for me to know his needs without him having to tell me what they are. In other words, come up with ways to meet his needs in the above categories without him listing them out specifically. He says if he has to tell me, then he feels like he is begging, and then he doesn't want me to meeet his need in that way then. If I meet his need in a way that he tells me, he doesn't feel that is a love bank deposit... more just neutral.

I am struggling here, post "his affair", because I feel like (and he has told me) that I can't figure out new ways to meet his needs. He is also withdrawn from our marriage of me not meeting his needs, almost 2 years post affair and he still feels empty from me not filling his needs. (He also is not meeting mine, and he knows it. He wants me to prove that I can meet his first.)

Is this a real meetable emotional need? (To be a mind reader is what I feel like he is asking me to do.)
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Originally Posted by DRSLB
How do I change this RIGHT NOW... when I have been an enabler for so long? When I had accepted and forgave him for the affair? When I have accepted not having my needs met? When the bar has been set SO low by me?

Read this:
When to Call it Quits

And start preparing for Plan B.

Also: You need to change your mindset. You need to recognize that you CANNOT accept a marriage where you are being blamed for your WH's disrespect, abuse and now (to add insult to injury) refusal to meet your ENs.


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Parallel Parenting in Plan B
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