So here is my question, I have been wrestling with this for a while, and read the surviving an affair book by Dr. Harley but my biggest question is not answered in it.

So my wife had an affair, it began because she was dissatisfied with my level of affection toward her, I was unaware of this until after the affair and will gladly change this for our relationship. But she would often vent to her friends about this, eventually her venting was occurring so often that her friends gave her the "do what makes you happy" advice. This was followed by one of her friends introducing her to her boyfriends single buddy at a club and then leaving them alone to get to know each other. A physical affair began between them and she gave me the "I love you but am not in love with you, we need to just be friends for now." The affair stopped when my daughter told me about some "guy" mommy was being friendly with when she took my daughter to a trampoline place. My wife wasn't home so I text her asking her about the guy and she immediately said it was none of my business, followed a little later by he is just a friend. I told her since she already told me she only wanted to be friends I would step aside if she found a new boyfriend so she could be happy. She stopped talking to me, so my curiosity got the better of me and I looked at her apple watch and read some of the text messages being shared between the two, but at this point I was more curious as to when it started so I scrolled up through thousands of messages to find the first one, which had happened 2 weeks prior to her wanting to just be friends. Now the affair only lasted 3 weeks and she claims she told him the night prior that she was done with him and wanted to work on us, I have never seen any proof to this, but accept it as the truth because as far as I know she hasn't had any more contact with him.

For the past two weeks she has been very enthusiastic about fixing our relationship, after finding out her friends encouraged and facilitated her affair I asked her to please stop discussing our relationship with them, she agreed because she felt they gave her bad advice. However she recently told me that I was being controlling and manipulative by not allowing her to talk to her friends about our issues. I asked her where that came from as she assured me it was fine in the past, and she said that is what her friends and her decided. So now I am at a loss, her friends clearly do not support our relationship since she has only ever complained about it to them, and are encouraging her to leave me once more.

How can I explain to her the trouble that her continuing to talk to her friends about our relationship is causing in our reconciliation without making her feel like I am being manipulative or demanding?

I personally feel that a continued friendship with these two is a bad idea right now but don't want to tell her she needs to choose me or them as I do not feel that is fair to her. The funny thing is, I could forgive her for the affair at this point, while yes it was inappropriate and very unthoughtful, it only lasted 3 weeks and I believe that it was all just physical as there has been no "withdrawal" from the affair, and up until this point she has been openly communicating with me better then we have ever communicated before. The problem I have not been able to forgive to this point is the constant conversations with her friends about our deepest secrets. I don't know what she has told her friends about me, all I know is that they clearly don't approve of our relationship. Which to me is crazy, one of them is going through a divorce from an abusive husband, the other divorced her ex when he wouldn't stop drinking, by comparison I would think that I would look like a good husband. I tell my wife daily I love her, she is beautiful, that I think she is extremely intelligent, I give her space to do her school work after work, I take care of most of the chores around the house laundry, dishes, vacuuming, sweeping the floor, making our daughters lunch for school, getting my daughter to and from school unless I have a class, which means she picks up our daughter once a week, and my daughter goes with her friend once a week. I've never hit my wife, I have had occasional angry outbursts but less then one per year, I don't drink heavily, I contribute close to $2,000 a month to the house while going to school full time so I can get a job that doesn't require me to travel. I traveled for work while she was going to school because she expressed her need for financial support above all else while she was in school. Yes recently she has felt distant due to not meeting her intimate needs, I thought she wanted space to do school work but now I know differently and will adjust that, but that is all she has told me about as far as where I was going wrong.

So how do I approach this situation while still showing respect, honesty, and love to my wife?

Welcome to MB and sorry for your pain.

First of all if you've read SAA then you understand that your wife had an affair because she has no boundaries around men and allowed another man to fill her lovebank that isn't her husband.

Was the OM married? Who all was the affair exposed to? Has she changed all her contact information?

And I agree she needs to get rid of these enabling friends. They aren't friends of your marriage.

Thank you for the response, to answer your question:

While I have been unable to get her to read the SAA book due to her counselors outlook on Dr. Harley, I have been able to get her to complete the emotional needs assesment which had her primary need being intimate contact, this was the only need that she said was not addressed satisfactorily in our relationship. The other issue she had was her sexual fulfillment, not that we didn't engage enough, just that I wasn't doing the things she liked / wanted me to do. She has since agreed to tell me what it is she wants in both areas. Although I have informed her that I need to ensure my safety and she needs to get an STD check before sexual relations can resume.

The other man was not married, he is a single friend of her best friends boyfriend.

This has only been exposed to her friends (who encouraged it while it was occurring), and her mother (who told her to have an affair if she was unhappy with our sex life). Other then that there is no one else around us aside from our daughter who is still too young to hear any of this. Her contact information has not been changed, but I'm not concerned about her being attached to the other man / contacting him, she had no difficulty ending the relationship with him. She has begun counseling to address her issues, and has infused herself back into our marriage completely.

Honestly I'm more concerned that her friends will encourage her to do it again with someone else. While I only have the information she has shared with me, her friends are not exactly encouraging of our relationship, which is the understatement of the century. By encouraging and facilitating an affair I feel that they are the single greatest obstacle for us to overcome. However she is convinced that now she needs them more then ever because of the negative feelings she is having about herself after the affair. She continually tells me she feels like an idiot, she doesn't deserve to be loved, she should just disappear so she doesn't hurt me again (this is her second affair in our relationship, albeit much less intense then the first). I wish I had found Dr. Harley's books after the first one because I feel this would have never occurred again if we had followed the instructions in it. But now she is only willing to see her counselor, who does not specialize in reconciliation or marriage counseling, and refuses to see a different counselor. Her counselor has already told her she does not need to follow the idea of radical honesty or joint agreement as they will not allow her to express herself freely. She has continually told her that this affair is my fault, and that I am trying to manipulate her by getting her to read SAA, and that her friends are her closest allies in this "battle."

So I am working against an ever rising brick wall trying to show her why discussing her relationship issues with her friends, at least until we figure out how to repair our marriage, should be limited. She still only sees her friends as trying to do what was best for her, even though she is suffering worse then she was when I wasn't providing enough intimate contact, she can't comprehend that while her friends were trying to help her they made it worse. In fact because of her counselor she now thinks that all her negative feelings are caused by me.

I don't know, I'm lost here, I am trying to get things back on track for us but I seem to be hitting a wall at every turn. It is becoming impossible to navigate this reconciliation with her and I am left to do everything that is recommended alone. I am following radical honesty with her, I am ensuring that any decisions I make that affect both of us are agreed to by her, I am ensuring I spend 18 hours a week with her without distractions of my own, though she still spends much of the time on her phone, and I have been making sure I am fulfilling her intimate contact needs as well as all others (aside from sexual fulfillment until I am assured she is not bringing an STD back to our marriage). However she has yet to participate in any of this with me. I'm hoping that she will eventually see how it is helping her to fall back in love with me and decide that she wants to participate with me. Unfortunately it has been a lonely road up to this point, though I will continue to do this as I feel like our marriage is worth saving.

Hi wornoutshoes, welcome to Marriage Builders. You are likely facing more affairs in your future unless you both follow this plan. Following MB by yourself won't save your marriage. Not only that, but Dr Harley doesn't recommend radical honesty when there has been an affair. That leaves you in a more vulnerable position.

The main problem is not that she is not in love with you, but that she does not have an affair proof lifestyle. My suggestion would be to email Dr Harley and see if you can persuade your wife to consult with him together. He will give you both free advice on his radio show and if she can be persuaded to join the program, we can help you with next steps. I don't see a future here unless you can successfully get her on board.

Do you still travel? Her need for financial support should be met in a way that is not destructive to your marriage. You can see that this strategy does not work.

I apologize that i wasn't very clear earlier, I traveled for work while she went to school as this was her biggest emotional need at that time. When she stopped going to school she became the primary bread winner and it was my turn to return to school, this was about three years ago now. So for the past three years I have been a college student working part time in between my classes for 5-10 hours a week.

As far as the friends issue goes it might have resolved itself last night after all of this. My counselor recommended that I reintroduce myself to her friends as all they had heard for the past 2-3 months was complaints about me. So I verified with my wife that she was alright with this and we set out to write an email to both of them that we felt highlighted my personality as well as my downfalls in our marriage. She actually thought it was a good idea because then they would see how much I was trying, as well as see the attributes that initially drew my wife to me and still make her want to be with me. In essence I wrote that I understood they had a negative picture of who I was as a person due to the constant complaining about me, I told them what I valued above all else, and asked them kindly help me to keep my marriage alive for the sake of both my wife and I by not suggesting she leave me / have an affair.

After we wrote it she felt like it was a good representation about who I am as a person and was a very polite way of asking them to help us instead of hinder us. She thought neither of them would be too upset over the email, but insisted that we put in there that it was written by us both and she fully approved of everything that was written.

Then about 5 minutes after the email was sent she got the first phone call from one of her friends telling her that she was being manipulated, that I was garbage, a terrible person, constantly lying for my own means etc... She spent an hour on the phone listening to her friends telling her that our marriage was a sham, and that if she didn't get out of it now they would no longer be able to be her friend. While it wasn't what we had hoped for it gave her a better idea of who her friends really were. She told me this morning she didn't care if her friends didn't like me and she could find new friends. If they were that awful over a simple email where I only tried to explain who I was as a person and how I was changing to fulfill her needs then she didn't want them in her life anyway.

I also received an email back from both of them that was rather unpleasant to say the least. For me it didn't matter, I would rather not associate myself with negative people like that. I'm sure my wife will have difficulties with this but she has other friends that are more supportive of us. All told I feel my wife was able to see that I handled the situation with dignity as an adult and it gave her more respect for me as a person.

Anyway just wanted to post this update as I felt it was important. Thank you again for all the responses and recommendations.

I am glad to hear she dumped those anti-marriage bit**es, but I want to point out that the problem was not that they only heard bad things about you, but that they are immoral, selfish enemies of your marriage. I can understand people being jaundiced against a spouse because of the bad things they hear, however that does not explain their affair supporting behavior.

I don't think your "counselor"' is helpful to your marriage or understands this dynamic. Is there a reason why you go to a counselor?

Do you have spyware on her phone to confirm no contact?

How old is you daughter ?

So you haven't exposed to anyone on OM's side? Did you expose the affair to your parents?

I do not have spyware on her phone to ensure no contact, and I have asked about giving each other access to our phones which turned into a terrible fight about respecting her friends boundaries. She claims they say things in their group chat that they wouldn't want me to know. So that was a no go, and she has her phone on her 24/7 now so I don't know that I could get spyware on it.

My daughter is 6

I do not know anyone on the other man's side to expose this too. She met him through her friend, so the only person I know that knows who he is hates me and continues to tell her that she would be better off without me.

I did not tell my parents about the affair, I guess I am waiting to see if we are able to work things out or not first. I would not want to make family get together's awkward by sharing that information and having everyone in my family shun her if we are all together.

Since my wife's affair I have learned her emotional needs and where I was not filling them. She as well learned mine. I have spent the time since I learned them getting better at that, and ensuring that I fulfilled them for the amount of time per day that she requested. She has not seemed to make much of an attempt to fulfill mine. I mean she is trying some, but when she does she acts like she is on the clock, pointing out that she is doing this for me multiple times. For a reference, my number one emotional need is intimate conversation, I'm not sure why but it always makes me feel closest to someone when I am able to have conversations with them. As of now the only time she has intimate conversations with me are when I initiate them. I am would be willing to accept this if that was all, but last night while we were having a conversation she told me that I was just too boring to talk to, all I had to talk about was my school, my past jobs, our daughter, or something I am interested in. So I asked her what she was interested in that she wanted to talk about, and her response was "nothing" I just really hate talking. So with that our conversation ended. She still insists that it counts as her trying to fulfill that need of mine, and that she is just being honest so it should cover the honesty need I have as well. Today when I was asking her how she was feeling about everything she told me she just doesn't think she can handle having a conversation with me because she thinks it's stupid and conversations are boring. I asked her why it felt that way with me but not with her friends, and she told me it was because her friends have more exciting things going on in their lives, and when she would converse with the OM it was because it was secret and exciting / new.

Is it possible to get her to actually want to talk to me through repeated attempts at communication, you know build it into a habit, reward it by telling her thank you and I appreciate it / feel closer to her afterwards?

Also she said she felt like all her emotional needs were easier to meet then my intimate conversation need and therefore doesn't put much stock into the enthusiasm I have been placing on filling them for her, (admiration, intimate touch, romance) and I'll be honest aside from the amount she wanted each I had already been doing most of these. While her idea of romance and my idea were different I was already putting energy into trying to be romantic so it was just shifting how I utilized my energies to better support her needs.

So is it fair of her to act like what I have been doing to fulfill her emotional needs is trivial, while what she is doing is like climbing Mt. Everest, blindfolded, in a blizzard?
What can I say to her to point out that I have been dedicating myself to her emotional needs and up to this point I still feel neglected in mine, as everytime I bring it up she gets angry and yells / says things like "this is why I assume we will just never work."

Please stick to one thread.

Threads merged. Please stick to one thread.

WOS, the best way to meet each others intimate emotional needs is out on dates where you are each other's captive audience. Trying to meet each others needs at home usually results in what you have experienced, almost anything is more interesting than your spouse when she/he is checked out.

Dr Harley recommends getting out of the house on 4- 4 hour dates and focusing on the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. Those are the 4 needs that will create romantic love the fastest.

My H and I started this by sitting down every Sunday afternoon and planning out our dates for the upcoming week, using this form: UA Time worksheet

Read this article for some suggestions about boring conversation: What to Do When Your Conversation Becomes Boring and Unpleasant

Romantic love is CREATED by spending 20-25 hours per week of UA time out on dates meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of conversation, affection, RC and sexual fulfillment. It takes 20-25 hours to CREATE, and 15 hours to maintain.

Have you been doing this?