She is just trying to find someone who won't ask her to do things that are good for her marriage. She doesn't like that MB has rules that put the marriage first. But, you wont have a marriage if she doesn't do that, regardless of who tells her.

Your posts are very irrational, MrA. You are back in conflict avoidance mode, spinning as fast as you can.

What I wouldn't give to, once again, create and implement a plan. I've made attempts over the years to put the good doctor's plan into effect in our M. Only to find out, after making a joint concerted effort to use MB, that she still isn't on board, isn't a believer.

It is very disheartening to go home every day to a life where there is no mutual plan and a wife who provides a fairly cold shoulder. I'm spending my energy trying to create a MB type R best I can but there is little desire on her part to use the POJA, POUA or PORH. I'm left wondering what, if anything, is going to give that moves us in a direction of being romantically in love again.

She has acquiesced to my request of not drinking while being resentful and openly displaying her emotions to that effect. There has been no communication that indicates how long she'll remain a non-drinker and certainly no sign of how long she'll remain resentful.

I'm taking her out on a date tonight. A movie and then maybe a coffee, hot cocoa afterwards. Date night so no R talk.

The point being is if I were able to have this plan there would less need for me to ask for advice on how to resolve these conflicts that arise.

The answers would work themselves out using PORH and POJA.

Hi MrA, I am glad you are communicating with Dr Harley; hopefully he can help you work this out. Getting your wife to stop drinking is a monumental step.

What is your plan if nothing ever changes?

It breaks my heart to say it but I don't think I can live with her if she decides drinking has to be a part of it. While there may be opportunities to negotiate other parts of our marriage and improve on them the drinking has really become a trigger for me and creates all kinds of negative thoughts for me. It makes it hard to look at her in a favorable light.

I've seen enough of her over the years have trouble letting go of habits, especially the bad ones.

I haven't really explored how I would make that step of separation. Doing so will put our entire family in a tailspin of change (financially and emotionally). I don't know where I'd go, what I could afford to do, etc.

I've heard many people being told they should make those plans. I haven't done so yet. I'm clinging to the fact she isn't drinking and hopeful she won't ever again. I'd love for her to decide she doesn't want to drink instead of not drinking just because I asked. I know it's not my fault we are in this predicament yet I feel I'm on the receiving end of the all the bad sentiment, etc. I do have my supporters but I wish my biggest one was my wife.

As far as her and I not being able to create a romantic marriage ... separation may be our only option. If she cannot put this little issue behind us and work towards something fantastic I wouldn't want to settle for what we have right now.

Gotcha.

Update:

Friday I took the Mrs out for a bit. We went to see a movie. She was quiet still chilly. After the movie I asked if we could go do something else, like find some hot cocoa and something to nibble on. She said no. She just wanted to go home. Got home and she headed straight downstairs to watch TV shows with our daughter. Obviously didn't want to be around me.

We went to bed around the same time and I asked if I could ask her a few questions.

I started with a statement. "It appears you are very upset with me still and don't want to really do much with me. I'm feeling a little lost as I don't know if we have anything for a plan to work this out."

"I am still angry.".
"That I've asked you not to drink?"
"That and because you spoke to our kids about the drinking and told them you were thinking of separating."
"I see. And you think I shouldn't have told them".
"No. That's just wrong. You've just added more anxiety for them. Now they're worried about us splitting up."
"I see. Well I figured our relationship greatly impacts them and that they should have as much information they need so they can respond accordingly. Also I was looking for support as your drinking is a problem for me. I feel they have a right to know that too and they can respond how they see fit."
"What you and I do is no business of theirs."
"I don't understand? We're their parents. Are you saying we should shelter them from the truth in an effort to protect their current feelings? How do you think they'll feel if and when we approach them to say we're splitting up? There would have been a lot of shock for them."
"There is nothing they can do to change what happens between you and I."
"Hmm. I guess I see it differently. I think now that they're aware they can talk openly to you about how your drinking affects them and they can also persuade us to work on our M."
"I still think it is wrong and I am still very upset that you did it."
"I'm sorry. I am trying to save this marriage. That is why I did it. You have been cold to me since I asked you to stop drinking. You're civil but cold and practically ignoring me most days. I have been trying to interact with you but it doesn't seem to help. We don't have a plan and I feel lost and not sure where we're going. What are we going to do, if anything, to fix this?"
<silence>
"Last we spoke you said you were going to seek your own counseling. Do you still plan to do that?"
"I have set up an appt but can't get in until February."
"Oh, OK. I had no idea. Is this something we're doing together?"
"No. I'm going alone. ... at least initially".
"Alright. And what is this person?"
"She is a family and marriage counselor."
"Ok. I hope she has a good plan for helping couples fix their marriage. What do we do in the meantime?"
"I don't know. I'm resenting you right now and although it comes out that way I am not trying to punish you. I don't go home thinking I'm going to be mean to you."
"Gotcha. I hear what you're saying but it is hurtful. It's hard for me to continue to push for some positives. I'm hurting from the whole drinking thing and now I'm having to live with your resentment and the behaviors exhibited from that. It's hard for me to see a light at the end of the tunnel."
"What would be your plan?"
"My plan would be for you and I to work the program we learned about. We didn't follow through the first time we tried. Your statements to me in the recent past tell me you don't believe it works."
<more silence>
"Anyways that's about all I wanted for now. I just wanted to know something was going to happen. I'm hoping we can make this work. I know we can be happy and have a romantic marriage. I love you. I hope you have a good night."
"I love you too. Good night."

The next day we went our separate ways for a while. She needed to find an outfit for her Xmas party. Yes we went. Her, my son and I went to the party (he works there part time). We had a very nice time. My wife was in a good mood. We had some nice conversation even with each other.

She's been a little less cold since we spoke Friday night.

I continue to treat her with respect and kindness and look for fun things to do together. I don't know what the future holds. Not sure what's going to come out of this counseling that won't happen for weeks upon weeks.

I started a conversation with her sister a couple weeks back and this weekend she provided some insight. Seems my wife wants what she has.

Her and her alcoholic H don't do much together. He tries to control his drinking. He does stuff for her. They cohabitate but also have fun together teasing each other etc. Seems that's enough for them to be in love with each other. She does the best she can knowing he admits to be an alcoholic and continues to drink.


My sister says if the positives of her don't outweigh the negatives then maybe I'm asking her to change too much and that maybe we just aren't right for each other and should call it quits. My wife has told her she just doesn't think whatever she does it will ever be good enough for me.

I don't know. All I ask is that she try to maintain a healthier lifestyle (eating and booze related), we rid our home of what looks like hoarding, we align our schedules so I'm not the only cook in the house and we spend more time together having fun and we build a romantic marriage together where my needs are met regularly.

I guess for my wife that's asking too much.

Did she drink at the Christmas party?

No. She won't drink because she knows I don't want her to.

The counselor she made an appt. with had a cancellation and my wife will be going in today to see her. Not that I think anything will come of it. I will ask her questions about it when we're home tonight.

I know your sister means well, but this is the kind of destructive advice that most "marriage counselors" aka divorce facilitators give. Dr. Harley warns about it here:

here

I hope you aren't giving into the pressure to relent on your request for her to stop drinking. I realize its very hard for you to deal with conflict and hope you realize that conflict avoidance only leads to more conflict down the road.

Thanks for the feedback Melody.

I misspoke, it's my sister in law not my sister. I am fully aware of what she does with her life is very different than what I know to work.

The world needs a plan. Dr Harley is the only one that I know of that has a fool proof plan for making a marriage great IF BOTH PARTIES are engaged in following the plan.

She hasn't been pressuring me to release my request for her to drink. I'm not positive but I'm thinking I may be seeing a light at end of the tunnel on this subject. But then again that may just be wishful thinking.

I did encourage her recently to considering seeing a professional about the drinking. Alcohol counseling is an eligible HSA expense. Marriage counseling is not. Her claim was she didn't want to see a professional and we can't afford it. So now she knows it's just that she doesn't want to that is the obstacle.

Time to end this stupid debate her and I have had in the past about the level of her drinking problem. The other day I said this to her when the subject of alcoholism came up. "Your drinking hurts me and I'm asking you to not drink. If you have an addiction you should get yourself some help and get that resolved. I'll be here to support you in any way I can. I want us to get past this and move on to the great marriage I know we're going to have.".

Just keep standing strong!! You are doing great...

She gave me the name of her counselor. Another EFT, EMDR therapist. Drumming up trauma from the past. Man I hope not. We all know that that really doesn't help.

This lady counselor does have experience with chemical abuse patients so maybe there is some good that could come out of her counseling.

There won't be, though, unless your wife says that she is addicted.

If your wife tells her that she is a perfectly reasonable drinker, who likes the occasional glass of wine at home, and likes going out with her friends for one or two, and that you are trying to control her and ruin her fun by stopping her from drinking altogether, just because you've stopped, and that you ruined Christmas and New Year by letting her know that you'd be miserable if she drank, the counsellor will not act as a "chemical abuse" counsellor. She will act as an individual counsellor who tells your wife that she needs to take back control of her own life.

The counsellor will only know what your wife tells her.

I know it isn't your fault your wife is using her. I just don't want you to hold out any hope for a good outcome.

Understood. Thanks SC.

MrsAlias said the counseling session went well. First visit was more debriefing than anything of course. However she did say her and the counselor talked about ways to help MrsAlias with her anxieties.

I am invited by the counselor to come to her next session if MrsAlias is up for it. I told her to let me know if and when she decided that it was OK for me to attend. Sometime in early February.

Meanwhile she continues to be in good spirits and is very pleasant around me. So at least that stressor is gone for now.

I forgot to mention that I will be bringing my MB knowledge with me to every session with this counselor. I'm going to encourage this lady to help us use this program to its fullest so her and I can move forward. I'll just have to be careful how I bring it to her attention. Basically I will spout the MB principles as if they are my principles (I am a firm believer).

If she's not on board and provides us with harmful advice and strategy I will have to have a discussion with her about her not being able to help us solve our marital issues.