What do you think is the best thing for your marriage at this stage, given that she is withdrawn from you because of her affair, and won't go? This is probably not the only pace that she won't go with you.

Is it best to take her at her word and go without her? My worry is that she wants you to go, partly because it gets you away from her, and partly because she doesn't care what you do.

Your task is to try and rebuild closeness with her. I'm not convinced that following anything separately from her is the right thing, at this time.

I think I agree I'll just wait until she's ready.

Do you guys think it's ok to ask for her phone? Im afraid it's love bank withdrawal...

I was able to get the phone for a min this morn, checked frequent locations and all of them were good, places she told me she had been.

WW is headed to a new counselor this morning, I pray she is helpful, WW has some major wounds to heal from and I hope as she heals she lets me back in.

That is good! How were you able to sneak it away? Would you be able to get it longer and slip some spyware on it?


This is not good news, unfortunately. Counselors are very destructive to marriages, especially when there has been an affair.

I swiped it for just a min while she was in he shower, but she peeked as soon as I made some noise. I didn't get caught though. I need to get the iCloud to backup so webwatcher will work. She's crazy protective of her phone, even takes it when she gets up to go to the bathroom at night. It's got me suspicious, obviously. She views me taking the phone as controlling and an invasion of privacy.

I tend to agree about the counsellors, but I have high hopes for this one. Ww has never really dealt with some major things in her past, getting pregnant at 17, my porn addiction, now this. Also, given that she is an avoidant personality she would avoid it if it weren't for counseling. However there's the obvious risk that she gets validation and is encouraged to be her own person... We shall see.

We'll see what comes of the church request.

Also, another big issue is that she has an aversion to SF. We never communicated about it in the past and she built up a resentment to it, and obviously now is using that to demonize me. I'm not sure how to work thru that other than we agreed to abstain until she desires it again. But it's pretty painful to hear your spouse tell you she doesn't desire SF with you... Ugh, and before getting on board with MB I was clingy and needy in that area which has just made it worse, I used it to reassure myself... I've been really changed the last 4 or 5 weeks, but there is no affection or anything from her, I guess this is the part of plan a that is the endurance time... Any advice in that area is much appreciated

This is a huge red flag.

People who have nothing to hide do not behave this way.

Recovery from an affair starts with NC and creating an environment which makes rekindling the affair next to impossible. This is done by creating EP's (extraordinary precautions) to safeguard your marriage. Here is the list Dr Harley provides in Surviving an Affair. I don't see that it has been posted to you before, but can you please tell us what has been done on this list? Clearly 'provide technical accountability' has NOT.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

People who have nothing to hide, don't hide. She is obviously hiding something.


That is great..........for the "counselors" bank account!! But it will just make your situation worse. I agree it is a cash cow for counselors but dragging up the past just makes the present WORSE. It will hurt your marriage and your wife.


Right, it is because she is not emotionally attached you and is hiding something. Her lovebank is closed to you because it is open to someone else.

I would put money on the fact that she is still communicating with her AP, or she has other SSL behavior she is hiding from you.

There are just too many red flags here to think otherwise.

here

here

here

Here
Beware of Bad Counselors

Thanks for all the info! I'll be reading thru it today. Sorry, it's harder for me to respond on weekends.

ML- as far as the list, the only two things she hasn't done is the letter and we haven't moved (yet). Technical accountability is a partial, she will let me look at her phone but it's always uncomfortable. I have access to all her email and social media accounts. She's blocked OM on all of it. None the less I too am concerned there is ongoing contact given the continued disconnect and unwillingness to fight for us. So I will be installing some VARs this week.

I do think she had just decided she was done with me, OM is not really an option right now, he as first child due in a month or so, and if they tried to get together both would have to give up literally everything and everyone in their life, so it's impractical, but I also understand the power of addiction. I think WW is just too stubborn to come back yet and has demonized me, hence why i have to change that via plan A.

With regards to the conselor, WW came home very enthusiastic about her, and was very talkative and in a good mood all day, she asked if we could go out for lunch, so we went out and did some shopping together, it ended up being a great day,. Adding in some great family time in the evening and a movie for WW and I. I'm optimistic that this counselor will be a good fit, she has personal history with WW and knows about the issues surrounding the pregnancy at 17. I think why WW needs to deal with it is because she's in this spot of thinking she had always done what "everyone said was best", hence marrying me for financial security etc, it's as if she's having a full blown midlife crisis. I hope and pray that as I continue to deposit into her love bank she'll start to see she did it because she wanted to and because she loved me, not just because people told her too or she felt pressured to.

I don't know, I can completely see how counsellors can be bad, in fact we are ending our couples counseling because it was bad, although that's how we found MB, but WW hasn't been this close to her old self in months... Maybe it's helping?

Thanks for all the advice! Time to go make some love bank deposits

She is in complete defiance of the checklist: _____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

She still HAS social media. And a wetbrain could "unblock" the OM in 2 seconds flat. Nor do you even know if she has ended contact because she keeps her phone hidden frm you. Showing you her phone is a meaningless gesture because she can delete and hide anything.

The goal of the checklist is transparency and she is hiding things. I get real concerned when I see BS's engaging in a check the box exercise to make themselves feel better when their WS is obviously not going along with the program. You just told us yesterday that:



The fact that she came home in a good mood does not mean the session was good for your marriage, though. The problem with individual counselors is that they help the client achieve her personal goals, regardless of its impact on the marriage. For example, if they are coaching someone in an affair, they would help that person pursue the affair and get out of her marriage.

I am not trying to be a downer, but you should not imagine that her counseling is going to help your marriage. It is not. She is not there to help her marriage. And talking about the tragedies of the past is damaging to your wife and your marriage.

I can tell you why it is uncomfortable. Your WW is deleting things off her phone that she does not want you to see, and then she is handing it over so you can see that she is not hiding anything. The reason it is uncomfortable, is because she is nervous that maybe she forgot something that you will find. I am guessing she hands it over to you, but stays very close even looking over your shoulder nervously, and takes it away as quickly as possible.

This is not even close to technical accountability.....

This is irrelevant. Oh how we wish that waywards were inclined to care about important events like the birth of a first child. But they're not. What they care about is getting a fix.

He is still an option, and even if it is not a practical option to the average person, the wayward brain does not care about rational practical decision making. You ARE underestimating the power of the addiction.

Threadjack to say I think unwritten is one of the best, most consistent posters on this forum. We are lucky to have her!

First child is a red flag, men who expect their first born are prone to having affairs. A former BF contacted me while his wife was pregnant with their first. I didn't know he had a wife and we rekindled, so I was the affair partner. I was devastated and cut off contact.

After their second child was born, I was notified he checked my LinkedIn profile several times. Before, I was certain this wouldn't happen to me in a million years. But I was tempted.

Don't underestimate the toxicity of an affair. His wife is most probably not at her best meeting his needs at this moment. It only takes one weak moment.

I'm sufficiently convinced that contact is ongoing, hence the VARs. Not sure what else I can do except monitoring software.

WW has been uncharacteristically short with me lately, which also fuels my concern about ongoing contact.

Also, She has told me that she doesn't understand why I need covenant eyes, that if I was truly better i wouldn't need it... She said I just have it so I can tell her I want to see her phone. *rolleyes*. Maybe tonight I'll just ask to see her phone...

She hints that it's weak to use covenant eyes, but happily scowers the reports every week...

Honestly this is just tiring, it's been 5 months since discovery and I'm struggling to stay motivated, my love bank is draining I fear...

Is covenant eyes a keylogger? And I take it she is aware of it?