i would stop doing that. It is a useless gesture and just causes conflict for absolutely no legitimate reason.

Good point, I haven't asked for it in a while and didn't last night.

Covenant eyes is a monitoring software for mature porn, she gets reports of my activity every week

Well, some good news/bad news. WW was very agreeable to go to church yesterday and it was seemingly great, all the kids were happy to be going. The sermon is related to relationships, and it was something I wish I had heard 10 years ago, about not being selfish, and leaving behind old ways of only watching out for yourself. Anyway at one point the pastor made mention of being in a marriage to serve your spouse and put their needs above yours, she became angry at this, to the point where she actually pushed my hand away during prayer, instead of holding hands like we normally do...

I could obviously tell she was upset, and didn't want to bring it up with the kids in the car. I just asked if she was ok, and she said 'not really'. Well, my valentines day gift had come in the mail, so I wrote her a very long note, highlighting that I'm committed to changing and meeting her needs, and that I took a lot away from the sermon, and that I'm waiting patiently for her and reminiscing a bit too since we first started dating around valentines day. I left the note and the gift on the bed for her and told her there was something waiting for her and went about cleaning the house/laundry.

I gave her some time alone with the note and gift and then went in to see her (she loved the gift btw!). We sat down to start talking a little bit, and she finally said if she's being honest with herself, she's angry. She didn't go into details about why, but I assumed its a mixture of things, but she's primarily angry with me. Angry that I didn't meet her needs for so many years, angry that I exposed things, angry about what she's done and the consequences.

I told her its difficult for me that she's so laser focused on what I did or didn't do to meet her needs for so long, I told her it feels like she's justifying what she did and not will to see all the good that we had. I apologized again for the way I didn't meet her needs in the past and that I see it now and I'm committed to changing. She acknowledged that she sees the changes and that she needs to work through her anger. Which is what shes doing with her new counselor. We talked for a bit longer and it was very 'emotion free' even though I was struggling with wanting to say 'you don't get to be angry', but I was able to maintain a non LB state and we talked through it proactively. She agreed that she needs to work on her anger, which is waaay more than shes said to date. She also gave me a real hug and kiss before she left for a few min to drive so she could clear her head before we went out with friends last night. Again this morning I got a real hug (better than any since discovery) where it actually felt like she wanted to hug me, not because I initiated things.

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm slightly optimistic, she seems like she's moving out of the fog and into the 'work on it' stage... praying its real!

Does she have a habit of driving to clear her head? Or did she want to talk to someone on the phone without being heard?

Did you mention in your note that you do not agree with this?

It is not unusual for pastors to give sermons about sacrifice. This is not in line with MB at all, Dr Harley does not believe in sacrificing for your spouse as it creates resentment in the marriage. Instead he believes in win/win solutions where everybody is happy and nobody has to sacrifice.

Pray to God but row for the shore.

There are many red flags here, it is NOT real if there is still contact with the AP going on. What sources of spyware do you still have in place? Do you have a VAR in her car?

T/J to say thank you to MelodyLane, you are too kind

Yes, with 4 kids in the house there is never a quiet spot to hide, and when she tries to get some time alone one of them seeks her out. So this is not abnormal for either of us.

When we talked I made a point to say that the pastor specifically gave an example where this being one sided is unhealthy and thats if that the case at somepoint that person wakes up and says 'what about my needs'. Which is basically what happened with us, except instead of communicating unmet needs to me, it happened with OM...

I also added that I don't think that's healthy, that it should be a mutual desire to meet each others needs, without having to sacrifice, but yes, it's probably worth re-iterating the MB principles here.

Just got the VAR today, its going in the car as an experiment, if it works well I'll add more to the house, if any of the VAR data raises my suspicion I'll add video capability.

I'm in a hope, but verify state.

That is sensible.

Totally agree!! Love unwritten!!

Do you have any spyware on her devices?

So I guess with days, come bad days...

Just really struggling today, had a conversation with WW and I struggle with my communication being perceived as DJ. It's hard because she's telling me she's angry, and I say yea that makes sense, but if I tell her what I'm feeling, she interprets it as trying to change her opinion. She also let me in on more of her counseling discussion, and how she's thinking she got married because she wanted everything to look good, despite the real issues that existed. So now I'm stuck, waiting for her to decide if she wants to save the marriage, or if she got married for all the wrong reasons and now has to 'do something for herself'... I don't know maybe I'm catastrophizing her words, and maybe she just needs to work through those feelings if they exist and not just ignore them. I guess for me its just devastating to hear what she is saying... this is hard, and it sucks to be hurting so badly on valentines day, somehow I have to manage to get myself back in a good mood so I can plan A.

Thanks for reading through my venting session.

No, I haven't been able to.

Also, a fun point was made, that all my plan A efforts just make her angry. She said it feels like a competition to see will get the dishes done first now. Feels like I just can't win.

Sorry, I know I'm complaining a lot today...

Some new updates...

First off, after re-reading my posts from the other day I was just distraught from a hard conversation with WW, I was thinking I was being empathetic and acknowledging her feelings as legitimate, however she still felt I was trying to dismiss them since I brought up my feelings. I since apologized and told her I see her perspective and said my feelings are real as well, but that shouldn't mean I try to change her point of view. It's my own stubbornness to not try and solve the problem when logic is so clear that she's fogged...after that things settled down.

I also informed WW that I've been working on my anxiety and insecurities and that I feel I'm in a place where I don't need to use her to cope with anxiety or compensate for insecurities. I told her I'm fighting to save our marriage because I love her and I believe we can have something amazing and that God will use this to refine us into the people He made us to be and we'll have an amazing fulfilling marriage.

At this she told me that her counselor has suggested she have some time alone to get some clarity of thought to figure out what she really wants. I asked if she meant a separation, she said no, just some time to reflect and determine what she wants. After I told her I'm confident in what I want, she said that she owes it to me to as confident as I am, and be 'all in' to saving the marriage, she plans to use this 'alone time' to do some soul searching to see if she can overcome the past (i.e. what I did wrong). Not sure how supportive of the I should be?

Also, it's got me thinking I need to start prepping for plan b. any advice is much appreciated.

Know that when a wayward wants "alone time" or "space" to think things out, what she is really asking for is for you to leave her alone to continue her affair in peace.

Don't make disrespectful judgements of her desire to be left alone, and don't debate her, but don't leave her alone either. Continue with Plan A until you are in Plan B.

Did I read right that you've been at this 5 months?
Dr. Harley recommends at least 6 months of Plan A for men. He sometimes encourages men to go longer -- you might want to talk to him about that and see if it would be good in your case.

Know that most WW do not respond to Plan B very well. It should be the absolute last step you take, because it will likely end your marriage. Are you feeling like you can't take it anymore? Is all this beginning to affect your health?

A WW that gets angry over Plan A efforts is a good thing It irritates her when you make lovebank deposits, because it doesn't fit with the narrative in her mind that you are a monster. Ignore the anger, and continue with the Plan A efforts despite it.

She hasn't yet said what she wants to do for her alone time, I told her to determine what it was that she wanted to do and we'd discuss it.

Yes, it will be 6 mos in a few weeks. I started AD's a few months into this and that has stabilized my health, otherwise I was going waste away to nothing or lose my job. Still the emotional roller coaster is exhausting for me.

My thinking is that if WW gets her alone time she might come back and want a D, at which point I'll probable go into plan B, maybe not? still plan A until the D is final?