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#2897820 04/25/17 03:13 PM
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First of all, my computer is not playing well with this bulletin board, so I am posting under a different name than I used here late last summer when my husband took a vacation without me. His grown son and I do not get along well, and he was going motorcycling with his son and some of the son's friends. I appreciated the responses I got here. My relationship with his son remains a problem. He has been verbally abusive to me, physically abusive to my pets, and generally behaved like a jerk around me for years, to the point where I now want nothing to do with him. I can't quite see how to implement the PJOA with this issue--but at the moment it's in the background.

We now turn to another ongoing issue in our marriage: His use of pornography. We have discussed the issue in the past. He understands that I am unhappy about it and consider it a deal-breaker and that I have monitored his use sporadically over the past several months. He's cut down significantly but last night he "slipped" I guess you could say. He was at it again and I lost my temper, unfortunately. I asked him to leave and began the process of gathering information to file for divorce. We have no children at home and do not own property jointly, so this would be a simple process from a legal point of view.

We are both very upset and do not want the marriage to end, but I have let him know that his behavior is sorely trying my love for him and if he keeps it up, I will eventually become so angry and disgusted with him that I will file those papers. He says OK, he'll stop completely, and has given me free access to all his devices and accounts that I know about. I will continue to monitor him and I really do not intend to live with this, which I have told him, probably for the last time.

He has said that my refusal to spend time with his son bothers him as much as he now understands his porn use bothers me. So if he has to stop using porn, why can I continue to refuse to see his son?

I don't see them as similar issues, but am not sure how to negotiate this. Would appreciate any comments or guidance. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by EmDee1; 04/25/17 03:14 PM.
EmDee1 #2897822 04/25/17 03:44 PM
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Hi, EmDee,

Your husband is abusive and Dr. Harley would certainly advise you to make a last ditch effort to try to save your marriage with a separation.

But the way you are going about this is likely to cause some problems. First of all, don't threaten divorce or separation - when the time comes, you just do it. You lose a lot of the effect if you threaten ahead of time. Also, when you threaten ahead of time, you end up fighting, and that's not the last impression you want to leave with your husband before separation.

No, your husband can't demand that you spend time with his son - it's not the same, that is a demand for you to do something, and if he wants that, he needs to arrange for it to happen in a way you feel enthusiastic about. Just like if he wants to have a sexual experience it needs to happen in a way you are enthusiastic about, so that means it needs to happen without porn.

Here's Dr. Harley's article on separation so you can plan to do so in a way that will be effective:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi8111_quit.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit2.html


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897837 04/25/17 09:00 PM
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Thank you for the response. I have reviewed those two articles several times, and intend to follow their advice as closely as I can.

Today while in my position as Net Nanny--a role I highly resent having been forced into--I discovered another little bit of deception my husband has been engaging in to get around what he knew perfectly well I would have objected to most strenuously. He must think I'm a complete idiot.

I have decided I will never again blow up at him as I did last night, and that I am not going to threaten him again. But I will have a very hard time being a perfectly kind and giving angel to him, i.e., executing Plan A. I am capable of being civil but meantime I am preparing to execute Plan B within the next couple of months, because it is perfectly obvious to me that despite my best efforts, sooner rather than later he is going to go porning again.

All bets off then.

EmDee1 #2897839 04/25/17 10:26 PM
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Markos gave you good advice. Follow the plan, don't threaten to separate. Just do it. Porn is especially destructive to marriage but even beyond that, your husband should quit doing anything that bothers you.

Does he ever threaten you with bodily harm?

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I agree with the others that you need to plan to separate. Have you seen this?
Dr. Harley on the Scourge of Pornography


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2897841 04/26/17 12:16 AM
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Thank you again for the responses. Yes, I have read Dr. Harley on pornography. More than once over the past few weeks. smile Along with other writers on the pro and con sides of whether people should tolerate porn use from their partners. There's no question whee I stand. This position seems logical and resonates with me.

No, he has never threatened me physically. Probably everybody says this, but he really is not the type. If he did something like that, I would be absolutely shocked.

I am following plans A and B, with emphasis on B because that's unfortunately where I expect to be within a couple of months' time. No more slips like last night's on my part. Thanks again.

EmDee1 #2897847 04/26/17 07:01 AM
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Sorry to hear about your experience EmDee.

Coming from the opposite side, you H needs to acknowledge that his use of porn is very hurtful to you and make a choice to take EP to end his use. If he isn't willing, follow the plan as Markos described.

I hope he comes around and ends it... not only is it hurtful to you, he's hurting himself and he doesn't even know it...

There are a ton of great resources online, if he decides to come around I recommend Covenanteyes software, and check out xxxchurch, they have a bunch of great resources and articles to help both of you.

Last edited by Messy; 04/26/17 07:02 AM.
EmDee1 #2897851 04/26/17 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by EmDee1
Thank you for the response. I have reviewed those two articles several times, and intend to follow their advice as closely as I can.

Today while in my position as Net Nanny--a role I highly resent having been forced into--I discovered another little bit of deception my husband has been engaging in to get around what he knew perfectly well I would have objected to most strenuously. He must think I'm a complete idiot.

I have decided I will never again blow up at him as I did last night, and that I am not going to threaten him again. But I will have a very hard time being a perfectly kind and giving angel to him, i.e., executing Plan A. I am capable of being civil but meantime I am preparing to execute Plan B within the next couple of months, because it is perfectly obvious to me that despite my best efforts, sooner rather than later he is going to go porning again.

All bets off then.

For a woman in an abusive marriage, Dr. Harley says Plan A does not need to involve meeting emotional needs. It is enough to refrain from demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts, and to make it clear that you are willing to meet your husband's emotional needs if and when he comes around to ending the abuse and meeting your emotional needs.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
EmDee1 #2897852 04/26/17 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by EmDee1
Along with other writers on the pro and con sides of whether people should tolerate porn use from their partners. There's no question whee I stand. This position seems logical and resonates with me.

Isn't it unbelievable that there are actually people out there who think that people should tolerate this sort of pain in marriage?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897889 04/26/17 12:58 PM
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[quote} Isn't it unbelievable that there are actually people out there who think that people should tolerate this sort of pain in marriage? [/quote]

Well, gosh, I mean, we wouldn't want to seem prudish or anything, would we? Or--horrors!--uncool!!?? Nonono!

I am very far from being prudish. There are just some things that are WRONG, and letting people run over you, back up and then run over you again--now THAT is uncool.

EmDee1 #2897894 04/26/17 01:07 PM
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I'm fine with sounding prudish! But aside from that fact, most women hurt like hell when their husband uses pornography, which is the best reason of all not to use it. Unfortunately a lot of the communication on this subject gets more complicated and judgmental and debatable and then people lose sight of the all important fact that married people shouldn't hurt each other!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
BrainHurts #2897904 04/26/17 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I agree with the others that you need to plan to separate. Have you seen this?
Dr. Harley on the Scourge of Pornography
I know you've read the article, but have you also listened to the radio clips in here?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2897905 04/26/17 02:26 PM
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Also, in regards to your AOs have you listened to the clips in here?
Anger Management 101


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2897914 04/26/17 04:34 PM
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EmDee1 Offline OP
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BrainHurts: Yes, thank you, I have read all you listed here, and have read whatever I could find. Suggestions welcome.

Last edited by EmDee1; 04/26/17 04:35 PM.
EmDee1 #2897961 04/27/17 02:27 PM
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Ugh. What an ordeal. I have access to all his devices that I know about, and have cleared them of porn that he probably did not realize I was aware of. Spyware installed everywhere except on his ancient phone. (He will not share a cell phone account with me. The account I know about is shared with his adult son.) Also I cleared the attic of old porn tapes and the ancient, not-very-well-hidden means of playing them.

Probably should have insisted that he do all this, but frankly I believe he'd have saved quite a bit of it. This morning I noticed him looking at a screen on his computer where porn clips used to be, even though he told me he'd sworn off. He didn't say anything about the disappearances, and his obvious fury is under control. We have not discussed my recent bout of "housecleaning."

I am not sure what else to do except work Plan A, which I am doing to the best of my ability. Comments and suggestions welcome.

EmDee1 #2897963 04/27/17 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by EmDee1
Ugh. What an ordeal. I have access to all his devices that I know about, and have cleared them of porn that he probably did not realize I was aware of. Spyware installed everywhere except on his ancient phone. (He will not share a cell phone account with me. The account I know about is shared with his adult son.) Also I cleared the attic of old porn tapes and the ancient, not-very-well-hidden means of playing them.

Probably should have insisted that he do all this, but frankly I believe he'd have saved quite a bit of it. This morning I noticed him looking at a screen on his computer where porn clips used to be, even though he told me he'd sworn off. He didn't say anything about the disappearances, and his obvious fury is under control. We have not discussed my recent bout of "housecleaning."

I am not sure what else to do except work Plan A, which I am doing to the best of my ability. Comments and suggestions welcome.

If he wouldn't have been willing to get rid of the porn himself, and he has obvious fury, you still need more than Plan A. How are your Plan B preparations coming along?

Originally Posted by markos
Hi, EmDee,

Your husband is abusive and Dr. Harley would certainly advise you to make a last ditch effort to try to save your marriage with a separation.

But the way you are going about this is likely to cause some problems. First of all, don't threaten divorce or separation - when the time comes, you just do it. You lose a lot of the effect if you threaten ahead of time. Also, when you threaten ahead of time, you end up fighting, and that's not the last impression you want to leave with your husband before separation.

No, your husband can't demand that you spend time with his son - it's not the same, that is a demand for you to do something, and if he wants that, he needs to arrange for it to happen in a way you feel enthusiastic about. Just like if he wants to have a sexual experience it needs to happen in a way you are enthusiastic about, so that means it needs to happen without porn.

Here's Dr. Harley's article on separation so you can plan to do so in a way that will be effective:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi8111_quit.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit2.html


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897964 04/27/17 03:23 PM
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Thank you for not telling me that my "housecleaning" was a huge mistake.

I have an appointment with my lawyer. I'll follow his advice, and think I want him to write an eviction notice for H. Our assets are all owned separately. I have retained sole ownership of my property, which has chapped H's behind no end but in hindsight was probably smart of me. I have divorce papers almost ready to file should the need arise. I'm going to start moving my valuables somewhere safe, not in the house. They are appraised and insured, and I have records in case things mysteriously disappear, but many of these items have sentimental value and money cannot buy new ones.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for to start Plan B. H is vanishingly unlikely to attack me physically. He may get verbally nasty. The likeliest next event would be for him to slip up with porn although I have things locked down so tight I'm not sure how that would happen, or at least how I'd know. Any slip I know about will bring out the eviction notice.

Ugh and ugh again.

EmDee1 #2898006 04/28/17 02:33 PM
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I think it's time to deliver the eviction notice. Webwatcher tells me that he took a quick look this morning to see if he's really blocked from his favorite porn sites. He did this while I was out of the room for a few minutes, so it's obvious he was "just checking" to see if he really has been cut off. Yes, yes he has.

Thoughts? I'm headed to the attorney for advice this afternoon.

EmDee1 #2898008 04/28/17 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by EmDee1
I think it's time to deliver the eviction notice. Webwatcher tells me that he took a quick look this morning to see if he's really blocked from his favorite porn sites. He did this while I was out of the room for a few minutes, so it's obvious he was "just checking" to see if he really has been cut off. Yes, yes he has.

Thoughts? I'm headed to the attorney for advice this afternoon.
You need to separate and go into Plan B like we said.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



EmDee1 #2900691 07/11/17 08:05 PM
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Although it is early days, it looks like Plan B may save this marriage. I won't bore you with details right now.

I came into the marriage with a modest amount of property, and could-be ex?? came in with bupkes and a recent bankruptcy. I insisted on a pre-nup. It is now 10 years on, and we both have excellent credit and are financially stable. I still have a lot more assets in my name than he does. Dr. Harley mentioned that it can sometimes be advisable for couples in similar circumstances to put property into a trust. Although I realize that everything depends on how well Plan B shakes out, I am starting to think about a possible future. I will have to talk to my attorney for details, local laws vary, no one here is giving legal advice, etc., etc., but I would like to know Dr. Harley's general ideas and approach to this kind of situation.

Thanks so much for all you do here. Your kind service is invaluable.

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