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Thank you, brain-y. If there are more shows similar or follow-up to that one could you link me please?


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Here's another good clip.

Radio Clip on DJs

I'll continue to look for some good clips.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2845883 03/02/15 10:26 PM
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FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
Scenario #1
First of all he could ask how she feels about his idea of going out. She might not mind putting the food she made up for a later meal.

If she isn't happy about his idea they should negotiate. Maybe they go out for ice cream after eating dinner at home. Or maybe they go out and do something that doesn't involve food after eating dinner at home. Or maybe he brings home something "extra" to contribute to a celebratory meal and atmosphere.

The default is to stay home until/unless they reach a mutually enthusiastic new arrangement.

So if they haven't been able to negotiate and dinner time arrives, since eating is a health issue, at least the kids ought to be fed whatever is prepared while they continue to negotiate.

If he gets angry then she should remove the kids and herself from his presence. The same if a verbal attack begins accusing her of not caring about his promotion,etc.


So what should she do if he doesn't ask and walks in and gets
the kids excited about going out and she is the only one unhappy?

You are correct that the default is to stay home (and yes, the kids should be fed). The default is not to go out like he wants, nor is the default staying home and having the homecooked meal.

It may seem like a silly example (who would really sit there, hungry, unwilling to negotiate??) but markos and I have had similar fights in the past smile Isn't it easier to see the solution in another couple's problems?

You are also correct in that there are plenty of options that they could brainstorm and negotiate through.

In the scenario where he comes in and gets the kids excited without talking to her, she needs to talk to him privately and let him know that she is hurt that he would do that to her. She should let him know that it is VITAL that he not do this and make her look like the bad guy for saying no. He has made negotiation impossible.

Quote:
#2 the default is for him not to go unless she is enthusiastic.

They can negotiate to try to reach a solution in which he/they go with her/the family's enthusiastic support.

I don't know if family night stays on as planned though if no substitute solution is negotiated. ??? Do the kids/everyone sit around doing nothing?

What should she/the family do if he ends up staying home because no enthusiastic mutual agreement for going is reached and he is moody, grouchy, or non -participatory in the previously scheduled plans?

The default is, again, do nothing. They stay home. He does not go to the party, and they do not continue with family night as was previously planned. They negotiate until they find a solution they both would love, and there are several solutions to this problem. Maybe they move family night to the weekend and go out to a water park, and by planning a new family event she is okay with him going to the party. Maybe they call a babysitter at the last minute, and they go out to the party as a date. Maybe they change their family night to a movie night and take the kids to the theater, which he would prefer over either the party or the previous plans anyway. Those are a few options that come to mind just sitting here, but there are more.

The point is that they both need to be happy with the decision that is made.


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Prisca #2845890 03/02/15 11:04 PM
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The default really is do nothing. Dr. Harley emphasizes that the default position is not supposed to be comfortable - ideally, it makes both of you uncomfortable, which motivates you both to look for a solution that you will both be enthusiastic about. The point of the default is to minimize the love bank withdrawals while you are negotiating - all other alternatives involve one spouse taking unilateral action, which is going to make bigger withdrawals and make the problems worse. The only time this would be justified is when health and safety is at stake (i.e., feed the kids, or get help for abuse/affair/addiction) - even then, your spouse won't be happy about it, no matter how justified you are.


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Prisca #2845892 03/03/15 12:06 AM
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Quote:
It may seem like a silly example (who would really sit there, hungry, unwilling to negotiate??) but markos and I have had similar fights in the past smile
ummm... doesn't seem silly to me. smirk It is easy for me to imagine archeologists finding a skeleton sitting at the table and wondering why she died there of all places. But I think I would be there alone and that scares me.

I may be completely flunking this program so far. think seriously, we may have never have had a fight yet if this is the extent of what not giving in means. I thought I was supposed to be walking away from fights and arguments.

Quote:
Isn't it easier to see the solution in another couple's problems?
it is easier because I don't have to do any of it. I can come up with solutions for our problems. Lots of options. I just don't get very far in practical application or negotiating and I own that it is not all his problem that we don't negotiate. I am sabotaging the motivational system and it took me months to realize that. banghead

Really struggling with the concept that it is not ok for me to just adapt and try to make the best of it. How happy I am about something has never been a big consideration. I am pretty upbeat and cheerful on the outside, I don't feel unhappy, just tired. But that doesn't keep my health symptoms from telling doctors to ask me if I am depressed over and over again. So I may need a good dose of honesty directed at myself and a paradigm shift. I love the way the goals of marriage via this program sound so I really want to shift the paradigm and give it a chance to work. Can't go back. Ha.

I can't even imagine the fireworks that might result if I did what it sounds like I should do in not giving in. Which is rule one in negotiating -be safe. I don't know if we could even get started.
He already went from mostly happy to out of love just from a few attempts at negotiating and respectful complaints. I do not see how do nothing preserves the lovebanks.


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Summary....."Do nothing" is not status quo.

It means literally do nothing.... no matter that it makes everybody very unhappy.


So Marcos and Prisca.... what do you do with the kids while you do nothing? I am guessing from your signature you understand my frustration. Our kids do know how to sit quietly with small items to occupy them under some circumstances, but what to do with them during a do nothing episode is not clear to me. I would hate to "fight" in front of them and obviously if negotiating stalled for hrs you end up needing to do lots of little things with and for them.
I have asked things like " would you be happy if I turn on a movie for them?" Is that appropriate?

Last edited by buildsherhouse; 03/03/15 12:23 AM.

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Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
Really struggling with the concept that it is not ok for me to just adapt and try to make the best of it. How happy I am about something has never been a big consideration. I am pretty upbeat and cheerful on the outside, I don't feel unhappy, just tired. But that doesn't keep my health symptoms from telling doctors to ask me if I am depressed over and over again. So I may need a good dose of honesty directed at myself and a paradigm shift. I love the way the goals of marriage via this program sound so I really want to shift the paradigm and give it a chance to work. Can't go back. Ha.


Right, that is your Giver that wants you to do that. The Giver is in all of us (even the most hardened criminal) and is an instinct that prompts us to make other people feel good even if it makes you feel bad yourself. The Giver is a really shortsighted emotional irrational thing. It is not good to fuel a marriage just on your Giver, because it will destroy you.

You have to start listening to your Taker. Your Taker prompts you to make yourself good even if it makes other people feel bad.

What is crucial to realize is that YOU are the being in the middle hearing the ideas of the Giver and the Taker, and if you will filter out the ideas that one side or the other does not like, you will be left with a lot of really good ideas. You can't let yourself be ruled by those two emotional instincts; you have to override them and stay in control and select solutions that satisify both your Giver and your Taker. In marriage it is CRUCIAL that the Giver and Taker be happy with the actions that are taken, because you want the relationship to last for LIFE and to bring both you and your husband happiness.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
So Marcos and Prisca.... what do you do with the kids while you do nothing?


Well for starters, doing nothing should be temporary, and these occasions will become fewer and farther in between as you get to be better at negotiating. So this has become less and less of an issue for us.

It has also become less and less of an issue for us as the kids have gotten older. For the dinner example, it would be completely reasonable for our oldest kids to just go make everybody sandwiches or something.

Quote:
I have asked things like " would you be happy if I turn on a movie for them?" Is that appropriate?


Sure; nothing at all wrong with saying "How would you feel about me turning on a movie for the kids?" We'd be likely to send our kids outside or, depending on exactly what time it is, feed them dinner and send them on to bed or their rooms to read.

But really our negotiations do not usually stop everything in the way you are describing. We tend to discuss conflicts over time in an email, and since we've been negotiating so long we don't usually have a conflict over something that needs to be resolved immediately that lasts very long.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897965 04/27/17 04:48 PM
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I noticed my husband is posting again. I'm here if anyone wants to ask me questions or make comments to me.

It's been two months since our coaching came to an end. He did not want to renew and it is not offered to one spouse individually so I 've been going it alone, but it's the same things so I have those two years of coaching and Dr Harleys direct advice to help.


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Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
I'm here if anyone wants to ask me questions


How are you feeling about pearlseeker and your marriage?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2897995 04/28/17 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: buildsherhouse
I'm here if anyone wants to ask me questions


How are you feeling about pearlseeker and your marriage?

I often feel discouraged and worn out if I take the time to think about how I feel. Mostly I just ignore my feelings and do my best to do the right things on my side of the street in the marriage and take care of responsibilities of life. I refuse to argue so if he can not hear a complaint or stop demanding I try to just let go of it instead of carrying the stress and hurt internally. I'm trying to be well physically and credit the two years of coaching with helping me sort through a lot of the confusion on what I should or should not do in marriage.

Four or five days ago he told me he's decided to make me his "one and only" and felt more drawn to me than ever before. I said, "great".
But following that I felt there were comments and implied demands for me to feel or respond in certain ways to those statements. He was frustrated I "didnt believe him" and although he is doing better with anger(and I've told him it is better) I still feel it is a problem that is not completely gone. I do believe he says his change of feeling sincerely, but it's not the first time I've heard it. He's also stated very hurtful and opposing feelings sincerely so I believe both were true at the time he said them.

A day or two after that he told me in tears that he was afraid it was too late and that I wouldn't respond. I tried to encourage him that if he can be consistent in not demanding nor disrespectful or angry I believe with time I would feel better about him than I do now.


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Thanks for the information, buildsherhouse. That will be helpful as we advise pearlseeker if he keeps posting. Hopefully we can help him learn how to finally stop his demands, disrespect, and anger so he can create a happy marriage for both of you. At this point I think the ball is definitely in his court.

If your coach or Dr. Harley had you giving pearlseeker a weekly love busters worksheet, I would definitely suggest you continue those. It can help prevent the arguing and debating that sometimes arises when you complain directly. If he has questions about what you put on the worksheet he can ask us here or ask Dr. Harley for help, rather than troubling you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2898433 05/05/17 11:44 PM
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First, we never really did lovebusters sheets. We had to switch to it being relayed via the coach. I wrote done a couple things since he emailed me asking if I would, but the most severe lovebusters this week is the same old things. Even with the coach there to relay it just right without any hint of anything wrong (disrespect, etc)it was turned back on me that I wouldn't meet his needs or was lovebusting HIM. I'm not seeing the point to the exercise or feeling up to risking the backlash.


Secondly, right now he's saying he's triggered horribly painful memories and has to be alone away from me to pray. I know he said the two years of coaching were a nightmare for him, I'm just very confused how tonight fits in with all the loveydovey stuff earlier this week, especially when he says I didn't do anything. He says he's not punishing me he's just suffering from painful memories and all he wants to say is that openness and honesty is a big need to him. I told him I thought I'd always given him that. He's not interested in talking about it.

It began with his conversation with "Mr Smith" sometime today. Mr and Mrs Smith are a younger couple -friends of ours. Mr Smith recently confessed deceit.... hiding his sexual history and current sexual misconduct. Mrs Smith is struggling to process it all and talked to her brother and his wife. My husband mentioned to me that Mr Smith was struggling with feeling like they talked behind his back. I commented that I could see why he would be uncomfortable and feel out of control. He's used to using deceit to manipulate people and get away with independent decisions.... but that she has every right to seek support and he is not entitled to control her and hear every word she might say in the process of getting support.

I guess my husband agrees she has every right to talk (so he said) yet says he knows how Mr Smith feels and it's painful. I asked if he meant it was painful to him that I talked to get help and he says no.

I'm lost. We had some discussion in which I asked how Mrs Smith has done wrong or hurt her husband and mentioned Dr Harley saying a betrayed or abused wife can talk to her friends or anyone she chooses to which he said he's never heard Dr Harley say that.

I'm not willing to be drug up and down emotionally anymore. I'm trying to be well (not stressed) so I decided to sleep in a different room tonight where I feel safer and give him space.

Your thoughts?


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After sleep and reviewing things from our two years,the confusion I felt last night is gone. I still don't understand every thing, but I think I've got it in perspective now.


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What perspective are you seeing?

I honestly don't see much you can do unless and until he gains control over his emotions instead of letting them control him. Telling you that coaching was a nightmare and that he has to get away from you to pray sounds like punishing. I would feel punished, for sure. He's got to get to a point where he can feel hurt without taking it out on you.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2898455 05/06/17 09:51 PM
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You stated some of my perspective, Prisca.
It's probably better not to elaborate further.


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