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MelodyLane #2898222 05/02/17 08:07 AM
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You're going to have to spell out in specific steps what you think I should do and say.

I do not have to do anything for someone who is not serious about taking the advice he has been given. I would like to know why we should give you more advice when you haven't taken any of the advice provided?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
She is embarrassed that I found out about it all. And now she has cleaned up her act, at least temporarily. She no longer reads books on her phone (something that I never confronted her about, but I've noticed the change). She no longer visits her brother in other cities. She hasn't gone out drinking (I have other ways I've tracked this). I hope these are permanent changes, but I suspect she simply cleaned up her act so that when she leaves me in September (when our youngest goes off to college), she won't look like the bad person in this divorce, because despite all these changes, she has made no positive step to rebuild our relationship, and any time I try to talk about us in loving positive ways, she gets irritated and builds walls. Every indication is that she is just delaying and postponing til she pulls the plug on our marriage in September.

This is all the more reason to tell people what she did. This will dispel her fantasy of being able to divorce you and seem like she did nothing wrong. Then truly reconciling with you may start to seem like the more reasonable option to her.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
So the reason I keep resisting the advice to expose her now is simply because I already missed my chance with the past affair.

I don't think Dr. Harley says anywhere that you can't expose an affair after it is over, and I know he says family and children should definitely be told.

And I know that Dr. Harley is an expert in helping couples recover a romantic loving marriage they BOTH like after infidelity. And you don't look like an expert in recovery from an affair - so far you are failing. Maybe you should stop following your own instincts and start learning what the expert has to say?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
I have snooped and not found any evidence of any contact for an affair. I have looked on her laptop, her phone, and tracked her every movement with her phone. She has it with her 24/7 and has no idea I can track her phone.
Snooping is not a 100% way to "know" the affair is over.

You gave your WW huge clues that you were spying on her (taking her to where the OM met her etc). Again, something we NEVER advise. It always backfires.

It is quickly becoming common knowledge that a snooping spouse can track you by your phone. I was just watching a TV show where one of the characters tracked where the other had been all day by checking their phone. There are webpages and websites designed to help waywards conceal their activities from their snooping spouses.

Any time I see a BS declare the affair is over without really following any of the steps, it throws up a lot of red flags:
* this is a BS that grossly underestimates a WS
* there are issues with denial
* this is a BS that wants to skip the uncomfortable parts of MB and this going to be A LOT harder to recover

Some signs that the affair is over?

You would want to see are WS is willing to work on marriage, WS is willing to be transparent with their phone, email, etc, WS spends most of free time with you, etc. If your WS is still clinging to their SSL and not working on the marriage, then, sorry, but no...they took their activities further underground.



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SusieQ #2898229 05/02/17 08:52 AM
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*Even if she DIDN'T know and wasn't being careful about being tracked via phone (you said she and the OM are miles and miles apart), all she would have to do is use a burner phoner and/or another device (work phone or computer) to contact the OM. Any type of contact would be a continuation of the affair and her lovebank will be closed to you.

**Even the affair has cooled between her and this OM, because you didn't expose it, it is likely to flare back up at some point, because that's what waywards like to do - it's like a hit off a crackpipe or a small high to have contact. It doesn't matter if she only viewed him as a "boy toy".

***Even if the affair has cooled down, your WW could very easily start a new affair. Again, it is something we often see when an affair is not exposed.


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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
To markos:
I plan to listen to the show in the car today.

Why pass up yesterday's show? It's going to be unavailable to you at noon Central time today, when a new show becomes available.

5 hours of free marriage counseling a week from Dr. Harley who has been a successful marriage counselor for nearly 4 decades and specializes in recovery from infidelity. Why pass this up?

By the way, a lot of my questions are rhetorical - I don't want to know why you are passing it up: I want to point out you are making a big mistake in passing it up.

I just got done teaching a Marriage Builders class at church - 13 weeks, and it was translated into Spanish by our bilingual minister. At the end of the class the last week he talked for a long time to the class in Spanish. I couldn't understand everything he was saying, but at one point I could tell he was saying "There are no excuses, brothers, for living in a bad marriage when all this free help is available."


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
Well, she did really neither. She wants space, freedom, and independence from me and the kids, but she's also not willing to end our marriage.

There is probably a plan in place to leave you for the OM. She will have complete freedom to do this because no one knows she had an affair with this guy. She will be free to introduce this rat to your children and family as a result. Do you want to be facing this OM for years to come at family events?

You would wreck this plan in one fell swoop if you exposed the affair. Exposure will effectively ruin the future of an affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2898237 05/02/17 09:25 AM
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Here is how it will play out, she leaves you ["marriage didn't work out and I was unhappy for years because anonymityplease is satan incarnate] and meets this new wonderful man that makes her so happy. She introduces new guy to family, friends and children. They are all so happy for her!! She has found true love and happiness!

And who is the NEW GUY? The OM. The rat that contributed to the demise of your marriage. So at that point when you object, you just look crazy, bitter and jealous. No one believes you when you talk about an affair. Your kids become friends with the RAT who helped destroy their family.

Have you ever watched those reality affair shows on TV? This is a very common scenario.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2898264 05/02/17 12:43 PM
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To MelodyLane:

I appreciate your continued responses, but you're not answering my questions. You copy & paste steps about exposing a current affair. I have asked for you to clarify specific steps about exposing a past affair. I've asked twice now. What am I to say to family members, friends, church members?... about a *past* affair? They will want to know why I'm airing all this dirty laundry in public. What am I to say? I can't say I have reason to think she's still having an affair because I have no reason to think so. None at all. And I've been looking. So help me out. How do I answer the question, Why am I exposing a past affair and shaming my wife for something in the past? Thanks.

I can guarantee that there is absolutely no plan in place to leave me for the OM. You're making wrong assumptions based on limited knowledge of the facts. My wife is a highly paid professional. The OM is a punk she agreed to meet only for sex. Nothing more. I read it in the texts in her own words. He is 20 years younger, lower educational standard, lower income, lower social class, etc. Essentially like having an affair with the pool boy. Just a pool boy in another city that she met in a bar who wanted to do it with her. I know all about him because like an idiot he has posted way too much personal information on social media for years. This was not an affair between equals or peers. It was a fling with a boy toy that she never thought would be discovered. All her friends and family would be horrified if she pursued an actual relationship with this guy.


To markos:

Yes, I listened to the show for January 30 on the app. Some good advice. But a lot of sales of books and coaching and stuff.


To the moderator Ariel:

Why no mention of non Harley resources? I understand this a forum on his website, but it seems if there is good advice in other materials, then it should be mentioned. No one has a monopoly on the truth, not even Harley. Otherwise, this all comes across as merely a high-pressure sales pitch that is manipulated only to effusively praise Harley and never honestly critique his teachings. I opened myself up on this forum because I thought I would get honest objective answers, not a one-sided sales pitch.


To SusieQ:

Maybe I need to go over to another forum and ask advice about snooping. But currently I have no reason to think the OM is in the picture at all.

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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
To MelodyLane:

I appreciate your continued responses, but you're not answering my questions. You copy & paste steps about exposing a current affair. I have asked for you to clarify specific steps about exposing a past affair. I've asked twice now. What am I to say to family members, friends, church members?... about a *past* affair? They will want to know why I'm airing all this dirty laundry in public. What am I to say?

You say that she had an affair, and who with, and that you are struggling to put your marriage back together, and ask for their support. It's that simple.

Tell your children about the affair and tell them that affairs are wrong because of how they hurt your spouse, and tell them that every married person needs to take steps to avoid falling in love with someone else so they do not have an affair and hurt their spouse and children.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2898266 05/02/17 01:32 PM
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I appreciate your continued responses, but you're not answering my questions. You copy & paste steps about exposing a current affair. I have asked for you to clarify specific steps about exposing a past affair. I've asked twice now. What am I to say to family members, friends, church members?... about a *past* affair? They will want to know why I'm airing all this dirty laundry in public. What am I to say? I can't say I have reason to think she's still having an affair because I have no reason to think so. None at all. And I've been looking. So help me out.
I would hardly qualify an affair that took place 2 months ago as a "past affair." It is still very current -- the wounds and damage are current. Recovery has not occurred.

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How do I answer the question, Why am I exposing a past affair and shaming my wife for something in the past? Thanks.
It has been explained many times why exposure is not the same as shaming. Why do you insist that it is? Nobody is telling you to shame your wife.

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I can guarantee that there is absolutely no plan in place to leave me for the OM. You're making wrong assumptions based on limited knowledge of the facts. My wife is a highly paid professional. The OM is a punk she agreed to meet only for sex. Nothing more. I read it in the texts in her own words. He is 20 years younger, lower educational standard, lower income, lower social class, etc. Essentially like having an affair with the pool boy. Just a pool boy in another city that she met in a bar who wanted to do it with her. I know all about him because like an idiot he has posted way too much personal information on social media for years. This was not an affair between equals or peers. It was a fling with a boy toy that she never thought would be discovered. All her friends and family would be horrified if she pursued an actual relationship with this guy.
They always affair down.


Quote
To markos:

Yes, I listened to the show for January 30 on the app. Some good advice. But a lot of sales of books and coaching and stuff.


To the moderator Ariel:

Why no mention of non Harley resources? I understand this a forum on his website, but it seems if there is good advice in other materials, then it should be mentioned. No one has a monopoly on the truth, not even Harley. Otherwise, this all comes across as merely a high-pressure sales pitch that is manipulated only to effusively praise Harley and never honestly critique his teachings. I opened myself up on this forum because I thought I would get honest objective answers, not a one-sided sales pitch.
How rude. Do you make it a habit of entering other peoples homes or places of business and making such baseless accusations, or do you just reserve that for Marriage Builders?

Dr. Harley provides most of his material for free. Most of what is printed in his books can be found and downloaded from his website. His radio show is free. You can call and email it, for free. You can talk to him, for free. He gives away his books, for free. He provides this forum for those of us who have been through his program to help people like you, for free. You're not going to find a lot of patience for accusations of money-grubbing here.

If you don't like what is being said to you, you can leave. For FREE! You are free to look elsewhere, and take other peoples advice. And we will wish you all the best.


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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
To markos:

Yes, I listened to the show for January 30 on the app. Some good advice. But a lot of sales of books and coaching and stuff.
From where does your sense of entitlement originate?

"I was listening to radio, and they had the audacity to play a commercial!"

Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.


me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
mrEureka #2898268 05/02/17 01:53 PM
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We know you haven't actually read the Exposure 101 thread because it contains a form letter that is very effective and direct and not at all vindictive.

Read the Exposure thread then return.

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Originally Posted by anonymityplease
To MelodyLane:

I appreciate your continued responses, but you're not answering my questions. You copy & paste steps about exposing a current affair.

Obviously you are not even reading my posts. I have TWICE posted Dr Harley's comments about a PAST affair, even though an affair that ended supposedly 2 months ago is not considered a PAST affair. What is the point of posting to you if you won't read the post?

Quote
I have asked for you to clarify specific steps about exposing a past affair. I've asked twice now. What am I to say to family members, friends, church members?... about a *past* affair? They will want to know why I'm airing all this dirty laundry in public. What am I to say? I can't say I have reason to think she's still having an affair because I have no reason to think so. None at all. And I've been looking. So help me out. How do I answer the question, Why am I exposing a past affair and shaming my wife for something in the past? Thanks.

See, this is not a sincere question, but a rhetorical question that represents your personal negative view about exposure because you feel you some how know what is therapeutic. [you don't] Those are your own hypothetical questions. So the issue is not about the words you should use [you seem like a bright fella and can figure that out] but that you don't AGREE it should be done. I have posted Dr Harleys quotes about why it should done MANY TIMES.

And if you need some talking points, you can read my Exposure 101 thread or figure it out yourself. IF you want the words to say, then stop being LAZY and read my thread. We have referred you to the thread many times. Have you read it?

Quote
I can guarantee that there is absolutely no plan in place to leave me for the OM. You're making wrong assumptions based on limited knowledge of the facts.

You can "guarantee" no such thing. She has shut you out and you have no idea what her plan is. You have even less idea what is happening to your marriage beucase you have poor instincts about the situation. There is no crime in that, but it is a crime when you won't listen to objective advice.

Quote
My wife is a highly paid professional. The OM is a punk she agreed to meet only for sex. Nothing more. I read it in the texts in her own words. He is 20 years younger, lower educational standard, lower income, lower social class, etc. Essentially like having an affair with the pool boy. Just a pool boy in another city that she met in a bar who wanted to do it with her. I know all about him because like an idiot he has posted way too much personal information on social media for years. This was not an affair between equals or peers. It was a fling with a boy toy that she never thought would be discovered. All her friends and family would be horrified if she pursued an actual relationship with this guy.

This is all meaningless fogbabble. It is the rule rather than the exception that cheaters "affair down." Nothing here would stop your wife from leaving for the OM. We have seen it a million times. You imagine that cheaters use reason in pursuit of affairs, and they do no such thing.

Quote
Why no mention of non Harley resources? I understand this a forum on his website, but it seems if there is good advice in other materials, then it should be mentioned. No one has a monopoly on the truth, not even Harley. Otherwise, this all comes across as merely a high-pressure sales pitch that is manipulated only to effusively praise Harley and never honestly critique his teachings. I opened myself up on this forum because I thought I would get honest objective answers, not a one-sided sales pitch.

What an obnoxious, ungrateful thing to say especially since you are reaping the benefits of his FREE FORUM. crazy As a guest on Dr Harleys forum, I would expect a little more respect.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


MelodyLane #2898271 05/02/17 03:19 PM
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Why no mention of non Harley resources?
Because we all tried them, and they don't work?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2898275 05/02/17 03:56 PM
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I apologize about the comment to the moderator asking why non-Hartley things are not allowed. May I delete the comment? I thought I could edit and delete a post.

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anonymity, if ONLY this site were so "restrictive" when my husband first began his affair, then I may have been spared OVER a decade of grief in my life.

Most of us have tried everything else before we came back here to truly save our marriages.

Dr. Harley (not Hartley) has a straight-forward plan that works, BUT it is certainly not simple. Dr. Harley gives out advice for FREE on his radio show, and he also corresponds via email for FREE with those who have been on his show.


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The best thing would be if you trusted people who have been there themselves and expose the affair asap. That will give your marriage the best chance of recovery. And by recovery we mean restoring trust in your marriage and creating a romantic, affair-proof marriage.

The next best thing would be to read:
How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3100_how.html
How to Survive Infidelity
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html
When Should an Affair Be Exposed?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_exposed.html

After reading all that, you probably will understand why exposure is so essential for recovery.

The alternative will be that you think the affair is over, but it will go underground or one of them will rekindle the affair in the near future. Affairs are like addictions. Nobody wants to have an affair, yet so many people do. Nobody wants to shoot up heroine, but too many will suffer withdrawal if it has been two months since their last shot.

You don't want to experience this again.

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Thanks, goody2shoes, for the links. These words in the third link are especially important in my situation. As I mentioned in one of the early pages of this thread, there are some who might demand my immediate firing even though I wasn't the cheating spouse and I have biblical grounds for divorce. And my friends and family are all mostly connected to the source of my employment. If some of them know, those who can fire me will find out. They can be very intolerant towards anything regarding divorce.

Harley says:
"While I unhesitatingly recommend immediately exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children and the other person's spouse, I'm not so quick to suggest immediately exposing it to an employer. That's because such exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim by the unfaithful spouse's lover. Or it might trigger the outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult for them to find another job."

That last statement is my situation.

goody2shoes #2898281 05/02/17 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by goody2shoes
The best thing would be if you trusted people who have been there themselves and expose the affair asap. That will give your marriage the best chance of recovery. And by recovery we mean restoring trust in your marriage and creating a romantic, affair-proof marriage.

The next best thing would be to read:
How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3100_how.html
How to Survive Infidelity
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html
When Should an Affair Be Exposed?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_exposed.html

This is an excellent set of reading material - I highly endorse all these for you.

Here's another couple good ones to check out:
How to Survive an Affair (this is chapter 13 from His Needs, Her Needs

Infidelity: What Every Couple Should Know:

This is a video, and it's completely free. In fact there's a whole video section.

Last edited by markos; 05/02/17 05:28 PM.

If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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