Correct. All our family and support network is local. I'm not in favor of leaving my company. I really believe moving would be very detrimental to the M, due to the fact that neither of us want to right now. We are both open to doing it in the next year or so, but both of us are just too emotionally exhausted to take on something like that this summer and we don't want to uproot the kids mid-school year.

EVERYTHING is to your discretion, but if you want to recover, you will have to move. I have never seen someone make a loop hole out of that statement, so hats off to you for being clever! However, the "if necessary" is determined by Dr Harley, not you. It is necessary if you live close by as per Dr Harley. He has made this abundantly clear and so have we.


That is cute but hope is not a plan.


Actually that is in direct contradiction to Dr Harley's plan and he would tell you that recovery is impossible under these conditions. But, you already knew that!

No, you have this backwards. STAYING is detrimental to your marriage because recovery is impossible. But again, you know this!! The proof is in the pudding.

Yes, I agree. I would really like to move for a fresh start.

I think we are both still in trauma mode. We are just now figuring out how to recover from my addiction and the damage created there, as well as the damage from the affair, then trying to rebuild the M on top of that. There's a lot of hurt on both sides.

Messy, we have given you the recipe for recovery so you and your wife don't have to figure it out on your own, you just have to follow it. You have been dealing with this for a very long time and you should probably be looking at Plan B given her refusal to commit to recovery. I am surprised she has not consulted a lawyer yet to get you kicked out. It is probably a matter of time.

is the OM still coming to your house during the day when you are gone? And do you all still go to the same church?

You need to remember that this is basically an ER room, and we deal with traumatized women on the edge of a nervous breakdown that need to get into Plan B on a regular basis.

Your WW sounds foggy, not hurt or traumatized.

Refusal to send a NCL is a big red flag. Please do not delude yourself into thinking this is a trauma issue. It's a wayward issue.

Amen! There is nothing wrong with your wife other than a wayward, entitled mind.

No, the last exposure killed the affair. WW doesn't not have a means to contact OM, also the kids are home from school now, so OM would be seen. I have access to all communication tools for WW, she attests and I've confirmed no contact for 6 weeks.

We do not go to church together.

WW is taking some steps to recover (initiating conversations, initiating some affection, and planned a date night for us this weekend - this is a huge step for her), but is unable to commit yet, hence the unwillingness to write the NC letter. We are still in limbo. She still is uncertain that she can get past my addiction, and I'm still committing LBs in that area from my issues and that is triggering resentment from her. Unfortunately I wasn't acknowledging it as a LB until today and need to fix it.

I'm going to request again that she commit to recovery and send the letter.

How have you confirmed this? This was going on for quite a while in your own home without your knowledge. What do you mean when you say she has no way to contact the OM? And what is to stop her from bringing the OM around the children?


Do you still go to the same church?


In other words, you are in the same place you were when you first arrived and she is still using your past - and ended - porn addiction as an excuse to not move forward. And you are enabling that little manipulation. You stopped your porn addiction a year ago, so surely you can see that there is no reason to keep trotting this out. You are being manipulated and it doesn't help that you encourage that manipulation.

Bottom line, if she is not interested in recovery, you need to plan to go into Plan B.

"Social media EP" and "access to social media communication"?

Did she eliminate any avenue of communication (apps, anything) that she used to communication with the OM or does this mean you just have access to her phone now?

Your WW is throwing some crumbs at you and gaslighting you and she knows that it will work. It's really that simple.

It seems that you've been at this for a very long time and keep making excuses for why you're not in recovery and why you're WW is not on board yet.

Just keep in mind that the longer that your WW remains in this foggy state, it just becomes more and more likely that her wayward mentality will become firmly entrenched and even if you move away from this OM, she will probably move on to another affair and/or never really work on a recovery with you - she will just continue on throwing you some crumbs and gaslighting you.

Don't say that we didn't warn you.

Thanks to exposure, and the fact that the kids know OM, they would tell me if OM was around. OM has new number, any tool that she could use to contact him I have passwords too and can track history.


We uncovered an additional impact/area from my addiction, where my taker created an aversion in her. That is the LB I need to address, not making a selfish demand. I have improved, but the LB is still there subtly, and triggers resentment. We are working to recover that, I have sought professional resources to recover in that area, and so has she. I need to be more patient and not incite triggers.

She wants a recovery, just not committed yet. Saying she is still unsure of what she wants, I interpret this as her love bank isn't full enough yet to feel romantic love, and unfortunately my continued LBs are slowing this. However, I do believe that the A has ended my deposits are finally sticking, this is evident by her behavior and actions towards me.

I hope that this doesn't offend:

It is seriously unbelievable that you agreed with your wife not to move, and to continue sleeping in the same home and bed where and she and her lover, your friend, betrayed you.

I understand that porn can feel like a betrayal also. But that is not what's going on here. You are allowing your wife's convincing to take hold because you are emotionally exhausted. You are flailing and need to call on your support system for help to get you both out of there.

You and your wife need big changes. Do NOT STAY in a home where your wife is everyday pleasantly reminded of her passionate interludes with your friend and where she has horrible memories of her interludes with you...All because you are trying to seem reasonable due to your own past mistakes. Your wife's brain is different than than yours. Her positive memories of him won't fade. She will miss him more. Better to divorce now than to kill whatever emotional sanity you have left by a slow poisoning. With your tendencies, you won't notice until you're expired.

Conflict Avoidance Is the Kiss of Death

Your wife has the typical sexual aversion of any woman who has fallen out of love. The only thing you and your wife need is for her to fall in love again. You keep pointing to some ridiculous distraction about a long past porn addiction to describe a trait of an affair, the lack of desire to have sex.


Don't say she wants recovery when you know she doesn't. You also know her lovebank is closed to you so you won't be making lovebank deposits. You will be spinning your wheels as long as that is the case.

Her lovebank will NEVER be full if you can't fill it. You can't fill it until she COMMITS TO THIS PROGRAM OF RECOVERY. Will she commit to this program?

You don't have passwords to pay phones or secret cell phones. What is stopping the OM from calling or stopping by for a booty call?

Sorry to tell you this is all a bunch of bull.

She's still fogged out. And will probably will remain so as long as you live close to the OM.

To make matters worse, you are extremely foggy yourself and spinning your situation and misapplying MB terminology to make yourself feel better about your proximity to the OM being a factor in your wife's non committal to recovery.

A wayward continuing to be foggy when you live close to the OP is COMMON and must be addressed. Ask Dr Harley if you don't believe us. Write to him on the radio show. It's free.

BINGO!!

Yes, I know I'm in a fog of my own, I never thought of it that way, but its true. Maybe I need to increase the ADs.

Whats the best way to approach the NC letter? My thought is that I need to tell her that in order for us to start actually healing, she needs to commit to the marriage and sending that letter is a result of that commitment.

Should I tell her its non-negotiable to me?

if you make this into a demand, and your wife does as you demand, what will you have achieved? Will making a demand about the letter, and getting your way when she writes it, mean that she is committed to the marriage? I don't think so.

By now, you should know why Dr Harley warns against making demands in marriage.

Besides, by trying to get us to focus on the NC letter, you are trying to deflect our focus from moving far away, immediately. That won't work.

Demanding that your wife sends a NC letter while she still lives close to OM is pointless. To get you off her back, she'll just go through the motions, and then see him when she wants to.

You need to focus on moving away. When you've persuaded your wife that that's essential for the survival of your marriage, and when she agrees and follows through, she can send the NC letter and mean it, and it stands a chance of actually being effective.

That was why I didn't force the issue with the NC letter, I requested, she rejected, and said she'll think about it when she's ready to recommit. So I backed off, knowing that if I just demand her to do it, it wont actually mean anything.

Same with moving, I haven't been able to persuade her yet, partly because of my own hesitations.