Hi All,

Married for 20 years with several kids. My wife has carried on an emotional affair (she will deny that description) with a college fwb (her label) for approx. 5 years, on and off. When the affair popped up again last year she came here looking for advice. From what she told me, you guys seemed to have some sensible answers so I thought I'd run this latest issue past you to make sure I am actually seeing this correctly.

Additionally, she seems to crush on co-workers for six months or so, until she moves on to a new one. She works online so the only way I catch wind is noticing that this guy is being talked about much more than everyone else, etc. She calls me crazy and controlling, but I've known her for 25 years I can tell when there is something going on.

So yesterday, she steered a conversation into an unnecessary argument. She did it again this morning. This is very unusual for her. Normally she won't mention an issue she has, she either expects me to figure it out and fix it or uses it as a defense when I bring up an issue. This leads me to check her computer this morning and I found an email where she sent a picture of her breast to who I think is her current crush. Let me give you the rest of the facts, this is where I'm torn on how to proceed.

1. She had a spider bite her on both breasts from inside her cleavage. One of the bites developed a slight red line running across the top of her breast. It was concerning.
2. She took the picture with me in the room. I jokingly asked who she was sending it too. She said she wasn't going to send it to anyone and seemed put off.
3. She did send the pic to her father who is a doctor, and received advice about it.
4. It is not a sexy picture. Its not even attractive. It shows the top of her breast (looking towards her waist), the red line and ends before the nipple.
5. She says this co-worker is gay. (She gets all wobbly over gay men, idk why)
6. He was an EMT. This will be her excuse.

I don't know what to do with this. I know it's inappropriate behavior on multiple levels but honestly, I felt pity for her when I first saw it. Apparently, she feels that she needs to go to these lengths to get attention. As the day has progressed I'm starting to get a little ticked though. Bringing it up will lead to an argument that accomplishes nothing. Sitting on it doesn't seem right either.

So, this is way longer than intended, sorry. I'm happy to fill in details if I was unclear, and I appreciate your thoughts.

I am sure she has had many emotional [and probably physical affairs] over the years. She feels entitled to have affairs and has done nothing we advised her to do. As long as she has the freedom to troll for men over the internet, this will be your future. i wouldn't focus on this single incident because that is a distraction from the real problem, which is her serial cheating.

Did you read her thread? I bumped it just now. here

Welcome to MB and sorry for what has brought you here. Also read this and listen to the radio clips in here. Serial Cheaters

Yeah, I read it then. It's probably the most honest account I've heard from her, while at the same time she leaves enough out to seem reasonable (at least in her mind). She was surprised at how hard you guys were on her. She tried to follow your advice until the therapist. She went three times to see him and then it was back to business as usual by mid January. I did manage to get enough concessions out of her to not proceed on the divorce.

While I do realize what the real problem is, I understand that it won't change. I have moved past it and am focusing my energy on getting ready to be single. My youngest will be out of school in a couple years and after that divorce will be much more palatable. If (I know) she decides to act like a wife in the meantime, I'll reevaluate the divorce.


True, but I have absolutely no control over it. The actions I would have to take to get her offline are not something I'm willing to do. It's less effort to leave her and start over.

With that said, part of my focus has been on not accepting the open disrespect that I'd learned to overlook in the past. That's were, in my veiw, the picture comes in. I am increasingly seeing it as an open disrespect in front of her co-workers.

After typing this out I realize that maybe this is the wrong forum for my issue.

A big reason she continues doing this is because you are enabling her. You have unwittingly become an accessory to the crime, contributing to your own demise. Very few people would tolerate such abuse from their spouse. She knows you won't do anything about it so she continues. It is notable that she was considering making changes when you threatened divorce last year. Once she knew you didn't mean it, she went back to her old tricks.

So I view YOU as a bigger part of the problem. As long as she knows you will enable her, she can safely continue.

Do your children know what is going on? Most do, and it is unbelievably morally confusing to them. It is not in their best interest for you to sweep it all under the rug.

They just grow up believing that infidelity is an acceptable lifestyle choice and learn to doubt their own instincts about right and wrong.


She is controlling you to an extreme degree by inflicting her destructive man trolling on you. I know full well she manipulates you by calling you "controlling" when you ask her to stop. That is classic manipulative behavior and it effectively shuts down many spouses when they are acutually the ones being controlled.

That would be like a wife beater accusing his wife of being "controlling" when she insists he stop beating her.. That is what is being done to you. Unfortunately it works.

If it were me, I would put spyware on her computer, get some solid evidence, expose her affair<s> wide and far [especially to the children] and then separate if she won't change. It doesn't help your children being raised in such a dysfunctional environment and they need to see what a normal adult should do when they are being abused. That will better equip them for life than watching you remain silent about her infidelity. Do you want your sons to be grow up to be cucks?

You're right. It took me a long time to realize that, ultimately it is my fault. I have failed to lead in the past. I bought into the "happy wife, happy life tm" myth, among others. At this juncture, I can leave or wait a couple more years until the youngest is off to college. I've chosen to use the next couple years to prepare for the divorce and life after. I can do a couple of years of the status quo standing on my head at this point.

I've gone the spyware route a couple years ago. Honestly, I came to the conclusion that the stress it caused me wasn't worth it. I just assume nothing changed on her part. It's simpler that way.

She is extremely controlling. These last couple of days worth of arguments started with her wanting to discuss my to do list so she could "help" assign priorities. It's been a near constant power struggle across the marriage. I've stopped submitting increasingly more across the last couple years. Actually, in retrospect, I think the incident that caused her post was her attempt to gain a little power back. She left that email out and open on her screen for me to find as I walked by. She hasn't been that sloppy in a decade. This is the level of passive aggressiveness that she typically displays. I shouldn't have fallen for it, I knew better. Which was why I came here for advice about the pic. We both know what a male dominated site would say about that.

I recognized the wife beater analogy a while ago. She really doesn't like the comparison. I'm the brute, not her.

The kids are generally aware, the youngest is a teenager. Mom does a good job of spinning the tale and being all girls they generally follow her lead.

I don't think she has been physically cheating as much as you. She clearly was/is emotionally. Guy #1 is the most likely for physical. Guy #2 I've read enough of their back and forth to see her throwing herself at him and him making excuses. Guy #2's then wife gave enough info to back up that impression. The various internet crushes are not local, short lived and her co-workers are generally late twenties early thirties. To be brutally honest, she is six inches shorter than me and thirty pounds heavier. I'm a big guy. I certainly wouldn't give her a second look if I wasn't married to her. You're right though, I can't&#8203;know. Most importantly any kind of cheating steals from our family.

What does this mean? Have you told your children about all of their mom's affairs?

I disagree those are your only choices. Those are the worst choices in the scenario. "Preparing for the divorce" is conflict avoidance.


Knwoing the truth does not cause stress, it creates solutions. It really is not simpler to stick your head in the sand and do nothing. Avoiding conflict just causes more conflict.


She can only spin in the absence of the truth.


Life would not be kind to her if she didn't have you around to protect and enable her. You are doing her and your children no favors. You have all the leverage and are not using it. You have options but you have to decide to stop enabling her and take action. You could put a stop to this and create a passionate marriage.

What are the choices I've missed?

I don't see it as conflict avoidance. Chosing when it is best to engage is a better strategy than engaging everything. I was seeking advice for this when I posted (I did take your advice, btw). The purpose of engagement is to effect change. If no change is likely to come from a conflict it is best to await another oppurtunity. "He who defends everything, defends nothing".

I don't see not keylogging the computers again as sticking my head in the sand. I've seen enough to get the jist and at this point I generally assume the worst.

The entire purpose of spin is to obfuscate the truth (in this case, more generally, the opposing point of veiw) to bring others to your point of veiw. I'm not sure about the idea of sitting the kids down for a "your mom's a whore, don't be a whore" kind of conversation.

I do have the leverage here, I have chosen to use it to improve myself and our families position until the youngest is off. If the wife clues in and decides to act like a wife in this time I'll decide wether to stay with her. If she doesn't I'll proceed down my path.

I think your overly focused on the cheating here, which is my fault. If you take the cheating entirely out of the equation, I would still be on this path. Living with her dishonesty (on all levels), entitlement and just general shrewness is enough overtime to make the marriage undesirable. I want a partner in this life, not a teenager I need to argue with.

I haven't set them down at a family meeting, no.

It means the oldest met guy #1 when she was 7ish and remembers the fallout. They have all been around for the discussions about these things over the years. The house isn't big enough for them to be able to avoid overhearing. What one may miss the others fill in.

Additionally, mom treats them more as friends than her children, so I'm sure she has "vented" to them.

And that is the problem. As long as you ignore the cheating, you are enabling her affair. Your marriage will not survive. You have a chance if you will stop ignoring it.

Like Dr Harley says: it's hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler.

You are underly focused on the cheating, which is why you find yourself in the same position years after discovery.

Might it be time to accept that your path has not worked?

Well, that sounds really dramatic but that is not what we suggested. That is your idea and not something we think is healthy. The point of exposure to your children is to tell them the TRUTH and give them moral guidance. We are not suggesting you "spin" them or give them an "opposing point of view" but to give them TRUTH. And moral guidance.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

Read this and and also listen to the radio clips in here. Exposing to Children

I see our difference now. I'm not interested in saving the marriage. I'm interested in getting out of it as smoothly as possible for all concerned. I leave room to address the possibility of reconciliation if she wants to toe the line, but it won't happen. The truth is that the work and introspection necessary to get her there she simply won't do. I believe you got a taste of that firsthand from her last year. I am no longer interested in dragging her towards it. Five years ago, maybe this would have helped.

Like I said earlier, I may be in the wrong forum for the question I had. Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree with most of what I've seen here, I'm just way past it.

So do you plan on filing for divorce?

It wasn't supposed to come off dramatic.

Morally speaking the kids definitely understand about the consequences of lying and failing to accept responsibility. In regards to our issues, I can see where they might have a murky vision.

This discussion, immediately after exposing an affair or recurring theme?

Yes, ideally once the youngest is off to college.

Did you read this and listen to the radio clips in here?

I read it. Generally speaking I'm not a big advocate of including the children into the deeper parts of the parents relationship. I can see the merits though. I do prefer honesty and openness as a way of life. I'll have to give it more thought.

I'm not sure how this helps me or the kids in our situation. It seems like it would just include the kids in the argument itself. Their mother does not agree that it was an affair. She says it is me controlling her. I don't see the point in that conversation at all.

The kids are already in this situation. This affects their lives too. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.

The problem with lying to kids about the source of tension in thier lives is that they eventually find out. They know something is wrong, but when no one talks to them about it, it just leaves them very confused. Not telling them the truth leaves them vulnerable to your wife's lies. She is perfectly free to tell them anything she chooses.

Children are not made happy or secure by lies and illusions. The truth helps them navigate life just as it does adults.