In another post MelodyLane asked me to start my own thread and describe the behaviors that led me into withdrawal. MrEureka also asked how I know I�m not in love. And LongWayFromHome wanted to know if my husband has made any progress in eliminating love busters and meeting emotional needs in the last year. Thanks to all for asking!

It�s taken me a while to start this thread because my H recently had a breakthrough insight, recognizing his lack of follow through on MB and other agreements. This, of course, was no news for me. Repeated lack of follow through is a big part of the reason why I am in withdrawal. No part of the MB program has any chance of working without follow through. How can ENs be met or negotiation work when agreements are sometimes follow and sometimes forgotten or ignored?

I�m happy my H is owning up to this very painful love buster, but I am not sure what to do with myself now while he begins working more consistently with our accountability coach. I know change takes time, but having worked on MB for a year now, I don�t feel like I have a lot of time left (emotionally). I feel I have been set up and sucker punched, again and again, so many times that I really don�t care that much what he does now. I feel happy for him that he�s had this insight and may grow from it, but my trust is gone and even my ability to imagine future trust is gone. I see he is trying and I believe he sincerely wants to save our marriage. I just find it very hard to imagine that he/we will.

So I�m in limbo and trying to figure out how to behave. I have little interest in having my ENs met (barely feel like I have any). I am making myself available for dates, 15 hours of UA time, and any MB work we are assigned (poja, workbooks, or whatever). I am working on staying pleasant, but honestly I feel pretty flat inside. Not angry anymore, just flat. What are we going to do in the 15 hours that I can tolerate? I don�t want to be touched much right now. Dates are OK but not too fun. Conversation has improved but not great. Physical affection was never high on my list, even when I was in love. And my #1 EN for non-physical affection (what Dr. Harley calls �creating an environment that clearly and repeatedly expresses care�) has not happened in years, although my H says he is trying to do that now.

My H has agreed to do the full MB program, talk to Sandy weekly, and write to Dr. Harley. We�ll see if that happens. And if it does happen, we�ll see if it�s enough to change how I feel. That�s very hard for me to imagine, but I�m sticking around anyway because, while I don�t believe in my marriage right now, I do believe in MB.

MrEureka asked, if no affairs (no contrast effect), how is it that I came to know that I�m not in love. I don�t want to vilify my husband (just writing this post feels disrespectful) and I don�t want to act like a victim. We all co-create our lives, knowingly or unknowingly. Before MB, I did just about everything wrong. I lived together before marriage, believed in unconditional love, let a lot of problems slide, didn�t negotiate, didn�t complaining, then didn�t complain pleasantly, resorted to various LBs, and escaped into IB for many years. We were in love in the early years, then the inevitable life challenges kicked in (kids, money, jobs, house, relatives, incompatibilities, etc.). We both lacked skills to create a great partnership. Blended family was very hard on him. Believing in unconditional love, I made a lot of excuses for putting up with his SD, DJ, AO, and IB. He worked very long hours, including nights and weekends, and was generally self-centered and demanding at home. Trying to keep the peace, I unknowingly rewarded thoughtless behavior. I let a lot slide, even his harshness (verbal) toward the kids, especially my son. I deeply regret that.

Lacking MB understanding or skills, I also resorted to some LBs, mostly DJ and IB, which of course just pushed us further apart. But my biggest mistake was hurting myself. Years of sacrificing and capitulating (not negotiating successfully), led to years of deep resentment, which I now consider to be the equivalent of a self-inflicted love buster. By that I mean I participated in creating resentments that turned out to love-bust myself, in addition to the hurt of all my spouse�s love busters. It all added up to a total in-love killer.

For example, we were engaged for 3 years because we could not agree on the wedding plans. Instead of finding enthusiastic agreement or not getting married at all, I eventually gave in and we did the wedding �his way.� So by the time we finally got married after 6 years of living together, I still loved him but I was no longer �in love� and I never got to have the simple and meaningful wedding I wanted. Resentments? Yep, got those.

Over the years, the LBs and neglect escalated. Thankfully no affairs, but it got pretty bad. For example, I broke my pelvis in a bike accident and was stuck in a wheelchair for 3 months with very little of his support or loving care. After that, I came close to leaving a few times. In 2010, I decided to �give it one more year� and started looking for help. We spent a ton of time and thousands of dollars on a popular marriage program that turned out to be all talk and no action. Nothing improved. So frustrating! Every year for the next 5 years, I kept saying I'll "give it one more year." During that period, I went in and out of withdrawal several times, was definitely not in love, and at times didn�t care if our marriage survived or not. I was chronically unhappy.

Very close to calling it quits, I stumbled across MB about a year ago, had my mind blown by its radical brilliance, and began to immerse myself in it fully. I�ve read HNHN, LB, HWSW, and we have all the workbooks and CDs. Plus I read the forum and listen to the radio show and archives daily.

Husband was a bit reluctant at first, then said he was willing to do the program. Once again, I told myself I�ll �give it one more year.� We did the online seminar, read books, and later signed up for the accountability program.

LongWayFromHome asked if my H has made any progress on eliminating LB and meeting ENs. Short answer is definitely Yes. Longer answer is not as much as necessary for me to fall in love. We�ve both eliminated most love busters (absolutely no more SD or AO) and he�s much more thoughtful now, bringing me water when I�m thirsty and other nice things like that. However, in the last year he has not put in as much time/effort into learning and doing MB as I needed for the program to really work for me. And as mentioned earlier, he did not consistently follow through on MB agreements (UA time, dates, POJA, etc.). I cannot even begin to tell you how unbelievable painful it has been to be promised things multiple times, gets my hopes up multiple times, get a little taste of something that feels good, and then have it taken away multiple times. This pattern has repeated, again and again, many times since last September.

My H took a big step when he finally posted a question to the forum, asking how to date a wife in withdrawal � which brings me to MelodyLane�s request that I provide �very specific behaviors� that led me into withdrawal.

� Husband cherry-picks the program. Says that�s changing now.

� LBs mostly gone, but he still sometimes debates me, even in casual conversation, which is very annoying. Also may debate or make judgements about my personal perspective, which I find disrespectful. I also was disrespectful when I made comments about his motivation or lectured him on MB. We are both working hard to stop all DJs now.

� Often ignores my pleasant complaints. In the past, I had to get very upset before he would take me seriously. Says he�s changing that now.

� Doesn�t meet my ENs in ways that would make the most love bank deposits. For example, gives me physical affection (something he likes) when I want non-physical affection. Gives me admiration (something he likes) even though that�s on bottom of my list. Suggests dates that aren�t too fun for me, etc.

� Doesn�t follow through on his MB agreements. For example, he hurt me repeatedly by giving and then taking away a very powerful way of making love bank deposit for me. I asked him to give me 5 minutes/day of combined A and IC, by holding me and asking me how I feel and then asking a follow up question � for just 5 minutes. He agreed. The first time he did it, it made massive love bank deposits! I couldn�t believe how much I got out of it. I told him how great it was for me. He continued to do it for a few days, then stopped doing it just as I was starting to trust him and open up. When I complained about how hurt I was that he stopped giving me the 5 minutes, he said he forgot, was sorry, and started it up again. I loved it again and got my hopes up again that things might actually work for us. Then he forgot it again and I felt so much more hurt than the first time. Then he started it up a third time, and then he stopped again. This pattern repeated at least 10-15 times over several months. He never said he wouldn�t or couldn�t do it, he kept telling me he would do it and then he�d �forget.� Each time, I felt set up (hopeful) and then sucker punched (horribly hurt), again and again and again. At this point, I don�t want him to do it at all. I am completely shut down and I don�t care.

� Doesn�t follow through on UA time. We schedule UA time, write it down, and then don�t actually do it. He doesn�t take the lead on making it happen and I�m too much in withdrawal to care. In the past, when I occasionally came out of withdrawal and got my hopes up, I got very disappointed when no dates happen or we repeated boring dates again and again. For example, before we left for a 2 week vacation last month, he said he was going to take me on �so many dates� that he would come home in the habit of dating me. I tried to not care but I felt secretly excited and packed a bunch of �date� clothes. He actually only took me on 2 dates, both doing things he knew were not that much fun for me. I went home with most of my pretty clothes untouched. I cried when I put them away. MB says we should go on four 4-hour dates per week. We haven�t had four 4-hour dates in a year. If I wasn�t in withdrawal at this point, I think I�d need to see a doctor!


I�m happy my husband posted on the forum asking for help with dating. That was a big step for him. I am not in any way perfect and I know I hurt him with my LBs over the years, yet he financially supported our family and didn�t leave. I also appreciate his improved thoughtfulness. He�s come a long way. But it�s not far enough. His repeated lack of follow through with dating and neglecting ENs has love busted me back into Withdrawal-ville once too often. I know it is much harder to date someone deep in withdrawal but I can�t help that. Honestly, right now, I don�t really care. Maybe someone on the Forum will help him plan better dates, but I can�t promise it will make any difference for me at this point.

When we started MB program last September, once again I said I�ll give it �one more year.� I had just discovered the amazing news that married people could actually fall in love again and stay in love for the rest of their lives! Once you know that, you can�t un-know it. If that is really possible, I want it! Certainly it�s more practical to have it with my current spouse. But if not, I don�t have the time or stamina to give it �one more year.� I�m very close to finished. Maybe Sandy can facilitate a miracle, but I do see the irony in this situation: overcoming a problem with follow through is going to take, well, some follow through. I wish I could say I�m all excited about our future, but I�d be foolish to hurt myself like that. All I can say is I am still here, for now. At least I am continuing to learn and clean up my side of the street, which will only help me in the future.

Thanks so much for reading. I apologize for the length! (Won�t happen again.)

- Remain respectful at all times, especially when complaining.
- Only complain through writing, using Dr. Harley's forms. The rest of the time, keep your conversation light and pleasant.
- Remember, a lot of men don't get in gear on fixing their marriages until their wives are almost out the door. Your husband is not unique in that. This could still turn around.
- Remember, feelings follow actions.

Thank you.
Wise and helpful.

Thank you.
Wise and helpful.

Update. I'm still not in love. H is "trying." We've been at this for almost 2 years, have MC coach, read all books, etc.

Question. Can anyone give real life examples of separation actually working? Leading to falling in love?

cm, has he changed the behaviors yet that led to you not being in love?

CAn you post your date schedule for last week? Day of the week, hours together, activity...


The only time that would work is if you have a spouse who is only motivated to try working on the marriage *IF* shocked into action by a separation. You can go read When to Call it Quits in the newsletter section for an example.

If your husband is following the program 100% - especially including eliminating Love Busters, following the Policy of Joint Agreement, following the Policy of Undivided Attention, following the Policy of Radical Honesty - then it's only a matter of time until you feel in love again.

If your husband is not doing those things 100% then your Love Bank balance is just going to go further and further down. A separation protects you from that so you can keep from going further negative until he's ready to actually follow the program. And it may also motivate him to follow the program.

I "tried" to follow the program for a couple of years, without following what Dr. Harley said about eliminating angry outbursts. So my wife insisted on a separation until I could assure her angry outbursts would never happen again. It worked for us!

"Trying" usually means not really following the program, and the program doesn't work if it's not followed.

Many thanks to all.
Will respond on Tuesday.
Traveling until then.