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Why do you think self help didn't work? We were extremely happy up until two months ago when we had a dispute regarding the friend. If it did work, you wouldn't be back here complaining that your H won't do the program. You don't understand the POJA, have never implemented the POUA and have never been able to get your husband on board. When Prisca listed out the issues, you said yourself yesterday that your H would never do those things. Then today you come back and say he agreed to "fill out the EN questionaire" - a complete distraction that doesn't address the issue. Please read my post again and follow that advice. We are going to do the needs worksheet today. We also plan to do the love Busters worksheet and everything else on this website (that's free). We are also going to reread love Busters and his needs her needs. We will schedule UA time. Like I said, put aside the EN worksheet [a needless distraction] and have the discussion that Prisca outlined. Stop wasting time reading books and go right to Lovebusters chapter on Independent Behavior. Print up the UA worksheet I linked. The issue isn't that your H doesn't understand the program, but that he WON'T do the steps. Well, last night he said he would do whatever I need him to do. I thought the needs worksheet would be a good place to start, but if you think the love Busters worksheet is better then we will do that instead. We will also read the chapter you recommended and do the UA worksheet. H says he's happy and wants me to be happy. He didn't even know that I felt the way I feel. When I initially posted, I was angry because we had a fight and was feeling very negative. We hadn't had a fight in a very long time, so my first instinct was to come here and rant. The truth is H doesn't do much independent behavior. Even with his friend asking him to do stuff all the time, he doesn't go. We do need to work on our POJA skills so that he doesn't feel resentful. We can't afford the $945 program. Another issue we are dealing with is that H office is being closed and he may be out of a job in the next few months. So, we can't handle any big expenses. This has been causing us both a lot of stress lately.
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I will post this again. Did you read this? Your husband needs to commit to:
1. 15 hours of UA each week, out of the house, away from the children and friends
2. No more independent behavior. POJA is the rule.
3. When you are not enthusiastic, he doesn't punish you with his resentment. Instead, he works with you to find something ELSE to do together that you both will enjoy. This thing can be completely unrelated. Example:
1. He wants to go to the movies with his friends.
2. You don't. You want to go to the park together, with the kids.
3. You negotiate, and you get a babysitter and go out to dinner instead.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Joined: Feb 2011
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I will post this again. Did you read this? Your husband needs to commit to:
1. 15 hours of UA each week, out of the house, away from the children and friends
2. No more independent behavior. POJA is the rule.
3. When you are not enthusiastic, he doesn't punish you with his resentment. Instead, he works with you to find something ELSE to do together that you both will enjoy. This thing can be completely unrelated. Example:
1. He wants to go to the movies with his friends.
2. You don't. You want to go to the park together, with the kids.
3. You negotiate, and you get a babysitter and go out to dinner instead. Yes, I read it several times. We will work on this.
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Well, I'll ask him and check his phone. I don't think that is the problem. Again, the attitude change happened when he made that new friend. The "friend" is a total [censored] and treats his wife like crap. Last night he sent my H a text of some woman and commented on her behind. He disgusts me! H shrugs and thinks he's funny. Ugh!! This friend needs to go bye-bye. Now. Is your H willing to do this?
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It's alarming to me as a BW (who was once married to a serial cheater) to hear of a serial cheating F?WH who doesn't follow POJA. Saying that it only recently started or that it only happens occassionally doesn't make it OK. Dr Harley wrote this response to a BW whose serial cheating WH was ignoring POJA on a specific issue. I don't believe that the POJA is an option for marriage. I believe that it's essential for marriage. Those who do not follow that guideline face a lifetime of misery. That's because if spouses don't make their decisions with each other's feelings in mind, they end up trampling over each other's feelings, the way your husband has trampled over your feelings. If your husband feels that the POJA is something that can be violated occasionally, he'll have another affair, or do something else to ruin your life. You need to raise the bar here.
Last edited by SusieQ; 07/30/17 05:58 PM.
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Don't tell him he can watch porn and you "won't judge" and to at least tell you about it.
You are telling him it is OK to break an EP. I know that you were told this already on another thread.
That is not Marriage Builders.
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Listen to the radio clips in here with your H. Critical Importance of Undivided Attention
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Here's another good thread with some great radio clips to listen to. Dr. Harley on the Scourge of Pornography
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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I will post this again. Did you read this? Your husband needs to commit to:
1. 15 hours of UA each week, out of the house, away from the children and friends
2. No more independent behavior. POJA is the rule.
3. When you are not enthusiastic, he doesn't punish you with his resentment. Instead, he works with you to find something ELSE to do together that you both will enjoy. This thing can be completely unrelated. Example:
1. He wants to go to the movies with his friends.
2. You don't. You want to go to the park together, with the kids.
3. You negotiate, and you get a babysitter and go out to dinner instead. Yes, I read it several times. We will work on this. What is his answer to each committment? It doesn't sound like you even brought that up.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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HBD, I am concerned that you are not being forthright with us because you are afraid to address tough issues with him. If you are not honest about that, we can't help you. We can help you become more assertive in your marriage. But it starts with honesty.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We can't afford the $945 program. You can't afford a divorce. When markos and I were in counseling, they charged us $90 for an hour's visit, once a week. If Dr. Harley only spent an hour with you each week, for the year's worth of a program, that comes to $4680 at that rate. But, he doesn't spend just an hour. You have access to him every day on the private forum, and you have access to your coach by email and phone. On top of that, you get all the course material you will need, and followup. When we started Marriage Builders, we were dirt broke. It was the best thing we ever went into debt for. Our family's intact, and we are happy.
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I will post this again. Did you read this? Your husband needs to commit to:
1. 15 hours of UA each week, out of the house, away from the children and friends
2. No more independent behavior. POJA is the rule.
3. When you are not enthusiastic, he doesn't punish you with his resentment. Instead, he works with you to find something ELSE to do together that you both will enjoy. This thing can be completely unrelated. Example:
1. He wants to go to the movies with his friends.
2. You don't. You want to go to the park together, with the kids.
3. You negotiate, and you get a babysitter and go out to dinner instead. Yes, I read it several times. We will work on this. What is his answer to each committment? It doesn't sound like you even brought that up. Yes we are doing it. He emailed me his schedule and we are filling out the UA form. We are going to work on our POJA skills. We printed out basic concept #10 about negotiation to help us.
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HBD, I am concerned that you are not being forthright with us because you are afraid to address tough issues with him. If you are not honest about that, we can't help you. We can help you become more assertive in your marriage. But it starts with honesty. I appreciate your concern Melody. Like I said before, I think I made things sound much worse yesterday because I was angry about our fight. I really think we just need to refocus on the program. A lot has happened to us in the 6 years since I last posted. I was laid off and could not find a job so I lost all my brokerage licenses. Then, my youngest daughter started having problems walking and was diagnosed with Perthes Disease. Then, my older daughter got really sick and was eventually diagnosed with Celiac Disease. Throughout all this chaos, little by little, we lost sight of the program. I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just saying that life got crazy and our attention drifted to all the other things we were dealing with. We are both equally at fault. To be completely honest, and this is not easy for me to admit, but I have far more love Busters than H. I have issues with angry outbursts and being open and honest. I'm not saying H doesn't have issues. My point is that we both need to take responsibility for neglecting UA and committing love Busters. The good news is that we are back and going to fix it!
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There has also been a lot of conflict lately about his new best friend. Has he given up this new best friend?
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There has also been a lot of conflict lately about his new best friend. Has he given up this new best friend? Yes.
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I'm just going to post an update and be done posting. It is very time consuming (I don't know how you all do it!). From now on, I will only post if there is a problem.
Last night went extremely well. We did the UA form and scheduled 15 hours of UA. Unfortunately, we could not fit 4 4 hour dates due to the kids evening sports. So, we are doing one long date on his day off and 6 short dates. I know this is not ideal, but it is what we could do with our current situation. The schedule is:
Sunday: 9:30pm to 11:30pm - IC (2 hrs)
Monday: 9:30pm to 11:30pm - IC, board games (2)
Tuesday: 9:00am to 10am - out to coffee (1)
Wednesday: 9:00am to 10am - out to coffee (1)
Thursday: 9:30pm to 11:30pm - out for drinks (2)
Friday: 11:00am to 5:00pm - SF, out to lunch, thrift shopping (6)
Saturday: 9:30pm to 11:30pm - out for drinks (2)
Total: 16
We filled out the love busters worksheet and discussed the results. We both have a lot to work on.
H is being extremely cooperative and seems happy to get back to being on the program 100%. I don't think either of us realized how far we got off track. We had forgotten a lot of the details of the program.
We have considered further whether to do the coaching program. H said he'll do whatever I want. I'd like to try to do this ourselves. I'd also like to see how things go with H office closure/possible lay off first. We can always sign up later.
Thanks for all the feedback and support. I appreciate everyone's time. Hopefully, I won't be posting again. Take care all...
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