Well after finding Valentines day cards from the OW yesterday and H telling me again they are just friends even though she wrote how much she loves him and will miss him while she is away(don't know where H says he doesn't know either what a joke), I gave him the ultimatum and he still says he doesn't know what he wants.<P>I told him there are two choices,<BR>1. Stop seeing the OW and work on our marriage. Get help for his drinking problem, come home nights and show me some respect.<P>OR<P>2. I will call the lawyer tomorrow and tell him to proceed with the divorce and he can be a free man for the OW in a months time.<P>His stupid response was I don't know what I want. Can this really be the case? I told him if he doesn't know then I will make the decision and call the lawyer. I told him I won't share my H and he can't have his cake and eat it too. Reading those disgusting cards from the OW makes me sick. (Love you miss you will see you soon and will call you) I was really thinking of calling her cellphone and telling her that I am giving her a Vday present my H come and get him.<P>But of course after calling the number I only got her voice mail. Must be she didn't take it on vacation. I wonder why she didn't just stay home if she is going to miss my H sooooo much. <P>Do I just take the bull by the horns so to speak and call the lawyer? My H has been unable to make up his mind for six months now and still to this day says they are only friends and he doesn't know why she would write all those things. She should concentrate on her marriage and two kids and leave my H alone. Sorry but this OW is no good and she knew from the start my H was married and each time I have seen them in public she laughs like she has won.

I think you did the right thing. I wish I would have did that 7 years ago and today I'd either have a happy marriage or be single.<P>But of course my judgement is kind of messed up or I wouldn't be in the mess I'm in. <P>Keo

bc,<P>Just a thought for you: my counselor said to me at one time that when our SO tell us they 'don't know" about this or that what they may really be saying is they don't want to talk about it. I find this confusing because I am a talker, but it made sense to me where my H is concerned - the darn clam.<P>If you are at the point of having only negative feelings towards your spouse, then I think you need to do what will keep you whole.

If that is the case and my H doesn't want to talk about it , then how am I suppose to either try and make my marriage work which I have been trying to do by myself or get an answer from him as to what he really wants. It has become a very bad situation to be in for me. I still love him but everyday that goes by with him telling me he still cares for me and then goes to the OW and lies to me about it just makes me hate him and now I think the hate is taking over the love. For me it just might take me proceeding with the divorce to get on with my life and maybe in the process he will decide what it is he really wants. He does tell me that he doesn't love the OW etc. but when I ask him to break things off he responds that there isn't anything going on and they are just friends. Well in my book I don't feel it appropriate behavior for my H to have a female friend that he goes out with and spends the night with and receives love letter Vday cards from. He said that he didn't write the stuff on the cards so why am I so upset. Well obviously she is getting response from him towards her feelings or she wouldn't be writing the stuff she is. I just feel so lost and lonely. My H won't even go to dinner with me and he spends as little time as possible at home with me when I am not working.

I gave my H an ultimatum. I thought it was a good idea because he was bouncing back and forth and seemed to be leaning more my way. It was 3 weeks after he left, 2 weeks after discovery.<P>He chose me. He said he was coming home, we made plans all day. He left work to go get his belongings and called me saying he couldn't do it. It was like discovery day all over only ten times worse. <P>I now think I should have kept my dumb mouth shut and let nature take its course. Now I pushed him into OW arms , probably for good too.<P>The counselor said it means "he doesn't want to talk about it", that may be the case, or he really may not know. Until he goes to a counselor with you, then you really might not know what is going on in his head. He can even tell you what is in his head and chances are, you still won't understand.<P>I hope that he makes the right choice and sticks with the marriage and his wife. But if he is not ready, it may not work the way you'd hoped. <P>Are you really certain about the divorce? Aren't you scared to do that , or are you on Plan A? Just wondering?

I found out about the OW six months ago. Since then I have doing Plan A at least the best that I could. However, during that time he has continued to see her lie to me and spend our household money on her. I also spent four days in the hospital because of everything that was going on. (dehydrated, weight loss and then pushed over the edge by her H calling me telling me a bunch of disgusting things that I am not even sure are true and then having the OW call my house and demand to talk to my H and he stuck up for her) I did file for divorce last October and that made my H angry.<P>However I told him that why should he be angry he was the one having an affair and flaunting the fact out in public in front of our friends. At first maybe this did push him to the OW but lately he has been spending more time at home. But this Vday card thing has just pushed me over the edge. I can not continue to let him have his cake and eat it too because why should he want a divorce when he can have her when he wants and then come home to me and our house and all of his toys. <P>If he divorces me he won't have anything left except the OW. I asked him if she was worth losing everything for and he said no. He said he didn't want her baggage. She is married too and has two kids that she doesn't seem to care too much about. The only thing that interests her is my H. In a way if he had to deal with her 24/7 he would probably find out in a real hurry that things aren't so bad at home and she is not the great catch. I told him if he wanted her so bad that he could move out and live with her. He hasn't left yet and doesn't plan on it. He told me that if he did care he would have left. So I said that he must care to some extent or he would have told her to get lost and work on his marriage.<P>He won't go to counselor alone or with me so that is out.

{{{{{{{{{{<B>bc</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I'm sorry your H made you so upset!<P>Catch your breath... just a moment.<P>Before you do on with the divorce...<BR>Is it possible to file for just a separation?<BR>Can you just work on a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>?<P>Both are very much like a divorce, without the finallity.<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> gives you the time to adjust to the separation... and doesn't exclude the chance that reality will finally hit your H!<P>A divorce is ugly...<BR>difficult...<BR>protracted...<BR>very adversarial...<BR>brings up only ugliness and mean spiritedness...<P>Think it through.<P>You've done <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> for a long time... do what WilliamJ is doing... a <B>seemless</B> transition.<P>Just an idea... <P>Jim

Jim,<P>Thanks for the thoughts in your reply. However, as I have discussed before on this board Plan B is really not possible. My H won't leave the house and I financially can't leave and I don't feel that I should leave. He has been having his cake and eating it too. For the past three weeks while waiting for his new unemployment claim, I have been trying to pay all the bills. Then I get his cellphone bill of over $100 making calls to the OW. I told him that I was not going to pay this. He has in the meantime gotten extra money from somewhere and he hides it on me not wanting me to know but still asks me for money for gas etc. He then takes the money goes to the bar and calls the OW to party. I would like to do Plan B but it just doesn't look like I can. I am so angry at him and the OW right now. The Vday cards just made me sick while my H continues to say they are just friends. I may be a blonde but I am definately not dumb. <P>Like I said the type of person this OW is I think if he had to spend 24/7 with her and not be able to depend on me to bank roll him he might see that the grass isn't any greener over there. She is manipulative and self centered. She went as far as redialing his cellphone to my house when they were together and just leaving it on so I could hear her tell him how much she loves him and other things I don't care to repeat. Is this really the type of person he would want to be with. He may think she is Mrs. Wonderful but it isn't the truth. And besides she has a H and two kids which my H says is baggage he doesn't need. <P>I just don't want to compete for his affection or share my H with this bar fly.

Hey BC,<P>I hate to tell you that ultimatums rarely work. Been there, done that, have the Tee shirt, coffee mug and cap.<P>This is our third separation. I threw the divorce word around in the previous split and she came home shortly after. I was to be the perfect H and she the wonderful W. That lasted for about 2 or 3 hours. Back to the same old, same old. Didn't work this time around.<P>Unfortunatly, I have grown so much as a person because of this site and all you guys. She isn't really interested in trying right now. I get the old "I don't know what to do" thing. That's too bad because I feel that THIS time it would be great. We'll see what happens. I'm not going anywhere fast. I'll be a great H to someone.<P>You must have friends or family that you could stay with. I'm with Jim on this one. Time for Plan B.<P>Take care,<P>Tim

{{{{{BC}}}}}}<P>We're just plain tired, aren't we? I know I'm tired of hearing the I don't knows and the 'but she's only a friend now'.....<P>I've heard it, and heard it. I am a waffler of the 10th magnitude. I know <B>exactly</B> how you are feeling about Plan B. The only difference is that I could make him leave if I wanted to get nasty. I'd have my parents evict him (we rent from them), and believe me, they would do it in a heartbeat. But I hold on. Why? Because I'm scared. Not that there isn't anyone else out there for me, or that I can't make it work on my own - I've done that. I guess it's because of the finality. I think you should at least leave for a while, if possible. <P>Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I just payed my H's cell phone bill, too. Didn't like doing it but I did it because he'll need it for his job - which will help pay for the boys' baseball this spring and, hopefully, other things that are important to young children. Nope, didn't like doing it at all. Sorry, I guess I started to ramble....<P>Take care and lot of <BR><B>{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>

The problem with ultimatums is you have to stick to your guns and do what you say, otherwise the other person doesn't know whay you are going to do in the end.<P>Don't give him an ultimatum unless you are ready to divorce him. If you do give him an ultimatum and he chooses divorce, do you want a divorce? If not, then don't file for one. An ultimatum is a way of forcing someone into a corner, but you may get stuck there too!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

bc, the problem with giving an ultimatum is that after done it has to be followed. No turning back, ANd unfortunately in many cases the betrayer is so confused he wouldn't be able to make that decision, would ressent the ultimatum, and things can actually not get as better as planned.<BR>After leraning about many cases,here and from friends, I would not recomend an ultimatum lightly. <BR>Actually I don't know if I would recommend it at all. The rason being that depending on the stage the affair is at the time the ultimatum is given, our spouse might even welcome it. It's a way of taking the decision out of their hands. They can always say later, I wasn't going to leave, was just going trough a difficult phase, you were the one who forced me to it.<BR>WHen my H's affair started, many times it felt like he was hoping for me to decide for him b throwing him out, or force him to choose, or giving an ultimatum. Once I almost fell for it, but thankfully stopped to think just before. I could see clearly that he would be relieved if I did so. That way it had been my choice, not his.<P>However, you did it, it's done. It still doesn't mean there's anything completely lost. You do have to follow trough, of course. Empty treats are quite negative. But maybe yours is one of the cases where this reality check will work. If it doesn't, maybe you can find a way to delay things without showing that the delay is coming from you. That way you will have some more time to try and work things out.<BR>And do keep in mind, cofusion is the natural state of the betrayer, losing touch with reality is another one. Rememeber this before you act or talk.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Bc-<P>I am with everyone else on this.<P>I would not give an ultimatium, stay with paln until you need to go to planB<P>Mt ex said the same exactthings, I can't decide. <P>Right after doscoverym she said she wanted to go to counseloing and work on things. Then she changed her mind.<P>After two months of persuing her, I gave her an ultimatium she said she wanted to try. That lasted two weeks. She is now with OM.<P>Again, that was before i found this sight like MEDIC238.<P>If you force them before they re ready, it will not work. I know it is painful, but had I waited, our chances would have been much better at recounsiling.<P>I have very little hope for that now.

so then, what do u do? Seems to me that we are at the mercy of the wH whims and flying fancies then, rite? How to discern if this is enabling the WH's actions....

My suggestion would be to use Marriage Builders.

Another 2000 thread?
Why?

Yeah, what's up with that? Why are we going 10 years back in time when there are current posters that need help?

I agree with MelodyLane,
Try using the steps here on Marriage builders and see if you can reach your husband, he is obviously deep into Affair Fog, No Contact with his OW has to stop first before you can work on your marriage, it's time for him to chose one life or the other, he won't do this just because you ask, you have to show your actions.
Good Luck