I've come to a very strange place in recovery.<P>My H and I are doing well. He has not had contact with the other women since March 22. And is dedicated to our marriage, doing so much work on it.<P>I love him dearly and have been able to work through so much and forgive him.<P>Things have been very good between us and he's been so very supportive of me as the BS. My only complaint is that while we are following the basic rules of the MB program we never seem to get to some of it. Like working on love busters, finishing the personal history inventory, our weekly dates have now fallen by the wayside. He says I don't really do any love busters so he has no complaints. While it's nice to know I'm perfect, as I agree with him, it does not seem realistic.<P>He travels about half the time for his job so I'm alone with our three kids (11(d, his), 12(s, mine), 13(s, his) most of the time. Though this month his two are visiting their mother out of state so I do have some relief.<P>But I miss him terribly when he is away. His trips are usually Monday Friday so he's home on weekends. While he's away I'm only getting 2-3 hours of sleep a night.<P>He got in at 1:30 a.m. last night and I could finally sleep.<P>I'm in a funk most of the time at work and at home. At work I have to "sort of " function but at home I zone out...<P>Today it's taking everything I have to just get up and clean house a little (I let it get really trashed this week when the kids were home alone packing for their trip. They made a horrendous mess and did not clean up after themselves. ) I let it go all week.<P>I'm on antidepressants for 2 months now but feel like my emotional state has plateaued in a very unpleasant place. It’s been a while since I got off the emotional roller coast I was on when I first found out.<P>Is this unusual? Any ideas on how to get out of this state? I hate it. I could just sit somewhere and stare into space for hours. This state makes me feel like I’m mentally ill and non-functional. <P>I think that part of it might be that I am very lonely when he travels and can no longer hide behind being busy with my career and the children. <P>And I wonder if I'm going to this place so I don't have to keep feeling the pain from what he did and the fear that he might do it again.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Hello.<P>I am sorry you are feeling so low. I can understand. You stated that maybe "I think that part of it might be that I am very lonely when he travels and can no longer hide behind being busy with my career and the children." I was wondering two things. If you don't already, maybe try to find an activity outside the home you enjoy doing, especialy since your children are getting a bit older and no longer always interested in being with mom. <P>The other thought I have is not as pleasant. Have you talked to him about his emotional state. He sounds like he may be avoiding something when you say he is not interested in working on the assessments and that your dates have slipped to the wayside. Those should be something you both look forward to.<P>I wish you well, LL <P>

LearningLife<P>You have some very good points.<P>I would like to find some interests out side the home with out the kids. I've tried this but have not found childcare. Eventhough the children are getting older I cannot leave them by themselves, we're dealing with some severe behavior issues with his 13 year old. I have never felt good about leaving the them with someone I do not know very well. I don't have that kind of support any more from family and friends.<P>You are right that I need to talk to my H about his state. He just keeps saying that everything is alright. He is a real home body so we do spend a lot of time together here at home. Knowing this about ourselves, when we built our house we made sure that the master bedroom is a suite... large bedroom, sitting room, great bath room and deck with a view to die for. So this is our retreit. My feeling is that he just likes to hang out here with me. What is your take on that? does a date have to be out of the house?<P>Thanks<BR>Z<P>

You've been so helpful to so many, it seems strange to see you looking for advice from us.<P>You need to find something to distract you... especially at night. Talk to your physician about something to help you sleep... temporarily. <P>My WH used to wait until I was asleep and then leave... returning before I got up in the am. Needless to say, I stopped sleeping. He took away the one place I had to escape.<P>I know how tough it is to have kids with behavior problems along with all this other mess... Keep the faith.<P>Does your library have a kids area... drop the kids to browse and just find a comfy chair to sink into for an hour with a book (one where the bad guy really gets his)... Anything to find some peace. Take the kids to the park and veg out on a bench.<P>It's hard to get your S to take MB as seriously as you do. It's &*^% hard work. My H has had a copy of SAA on his nightstand (at his request) for over a week. His own copy even. Hasn't yet cracked the cover. You have to find time to "get to it." <P>It's so hard, I know. I have four kids at home, our own business (we work together too) and a basement in the midst of a remodeling project... and school just ended for the summer. Dig in. Paint a room. shampoo the heck out of your carpets. Feel productive about something. Let the kids make their own PB&J sandwiches while you do something else. Get a bit selfish. It's allowed.<P>A virtual hug is being sent your way-- in partial repayment for all you've done here to help others.<P>The Hat.

Dear Z- Can I rent your bedroom suite for a weekend? It sounds heavenly!<BR>I have an idea that might be fun...have a date in your home away from home! Bring in some flowers, pour some wine, and spend time doing the personal history...after a little talking it over, a little light dinner and some wine, maybe a shower for two, or couples massaging and then.. viola..<BR>You could even print it up...<P> Presenting Zorweb's Weekend Love Retreat<BR> Guaranteed to bring couples together<BR> <BR> Activities<BR> Interesting questionnaires that are guaranteed to put you in your lover's mind<BR> Sensuous Massage that put you in your lover's arms<BR> Menu<P>Get the idea? You could really have fun with this and also make him feel like a million bucks<BR>What do you think?<BR>T<P><BR>

zorweb,<P>I think Twyla gave you a better answer than I ever could. YES you can have a date in your home. Just get creative and have fun!

Zorweb, talk to your H next chance you get. Honesty and opening up your feelings are key to recovery. He needs to know how you feel, even if it feels inconsequential, it's not. Talk, talk and talk.<P>I definately like the idea of you having a date in your HEAVENLY master bedroom. I want to rent it too - how much you charging these days?? <P>Does your H have email - can you contact him while he is away. Tell him you miss him, you need a call from him every night he is away for 1/2 an hour just before bed, it should give you comfort so you can sleep. He should spend the whole time making you feel like an angel. That should help you sleep, think he'd do it?<P>As for the house. I know this sounds corny, but can you make it fun? Put on loud music while you dust to the beat. Pay the kids to clean perhaps? I know, when you feel down and can't do anything - PROMISE us that you will immediately come to MB and post. We'll get you going, don't worry about that. <P>It sounds like he may be getting comfortable with your situation and not think he has to work on the marriage anymore, you would know better than I. A phone call with Steve/Jenn, maybe?? A gentle reminder that you are not quite there yet and need more attention?<P>I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you talk to him about it. I think you'll find out he just didn't realize what was going on and will be happy to appease you. This is my hope anyway.

baseballhat,<P>Believe me, I have gotten so much help from you and others in this forum. Being here has helped me more then I can ever repay all of you. So if I can give back even a small fraction of that I am blessed. <P>Will talk to the doc about something to help me sleep. I hate to do that but I to stop the insomnia pattern. It’s taking a toll on me.<P>Your suggestions about going places where I can let the kids take care of themselves and get some peace for myself is a good one. <P>I’ve done some of this in the past but the kids have acted up so badly that I hate to take them in public. All of our children have been through hell and back because of the divorces and all the fall out. My H’s 13-year-old son is so angry that he cannot contain himself half the time. He has a habit of starting physical fights with the other two in public. He also uses the built in audience to humiliate me in public by calling me filthy names and saying horrible things to me. I had stopped taking them in public. However, over the last month or so they are showing signs of becoming at least partially civilized so maybe I should try more of it.<P>I guess I can try it again and if it does not work because the kids cannot behave properly in public then I’ll have to hire a mature person as a baby sitter. Will call an agency tomorrow. I have not other choice, as I know I need to do some things for myself.<P>I do feel lucky in that my H has read Surviving an Affairs. I often read passages from the other books to him. He also comes to the board and reads and posts quite often. His alias here is “SeenTheLight”. So I know I am lucky there. It’s just the procrastination.. we are both guilty of that.<BR> <BR>“Dig in. Paint a room. Shampoo the heck out of your carpets. Feel productive about something. Let the kids make their own PB&J sandwiches while you do something else. Get a bit selfish. It's allowed. “<P>Yep, and this house could use that kind of attention. I just wish I had my very own “butt kicker” here to give me a kick in the butt all the time to get me moving. Once I’m into a project I’m ok… it’s getting there.<P>Thanks so very much<BR> <BR>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Twyla,<P>Loved your suggestions….. I’m going to do it…. (smiling over here). Sounds like fun.<P>After reading these posts, I told my H that I needed to talk to him and showed him theses posts.<P>So doing a mini-version of your suggestion I fixed us a dessert of vanilla ice cream with Kailua as a sauce. We retired to our retreat and talked. Even spend a while on the deck talking, star gazing and watching the moon (very big and bright) rise over the silhouetted mountains in the distance.<P>So yes it was like an impromptu date. I feel a lot better this morning.<P>Thanks again,<BR>Z<BR>

Hurtbyhubby,<P>I took your suggestion and did talk to my husband last night. I even showed him this thread.<P>We talked about how I miss him when he’s traveling. That although I’m recovering from his affairs, I am still very emotionally vulnerable at this time. That dealing with the kids is overwhelming at times. So we talked, talked, talked.<P>One of my issues is that I find it hard to ask my husband for the things I need. My XH was so emotionally abusive that when I asked him for anything he’s blow. Then he’d make a point of doing exactly the opposite of what I asked. I got so used to not expecting anything from him. So used to his refusal to talk about or work on any thing that I just stopped trying. I’m afraid that I’ve brought that bagge into this marriage. My H is slowly teaching me that he is a very different type of man. That I can tell him anything and he will not push me away or use it to hurt me. It is taking me time to learn that I can trust him to be nurturing of our marriage and me. So thanks for the reminder to just go talk to him.<P>When my H travels we email and chat. However, he is not really good at remembering to email me. It’s like he gets to his destination, wrapped up in his work and forgets. Scares me because he was this way when he was having the affairs… like that part of his life had nothing to do with our marriage. If I send him emails he will respond but he seldom initiates the contact. Some days he never checks his email at all. If I don’t get emails from him during the day I start to feel rejected and hurt. He knows this and says he needs to get better at it. I believe that you are right that he is getting comfortable with the situation. For a while he was being very good at this, now the emails and phone calls during the workday have dropped off to almost non-existent. I know that Dr. Harley says that we need to tell our spouse what we need over and over until they get the habit. But it makes me feel like I’m begging or nagging so I have trouble asking for this anymore. I need to not slip into old habits here.<P>In the evenings we chat … but now it seems that hotels are charging an arm and a leg for Internet access.. $10 a day for the Ethernet line and local calls are .75 for the first half hours and .10 cents a minute after that. So unless his company agrees to pay the Internet access fee we are loosing the chat connection as a major form of communication when he travels. <P>We do talk on the phone every night when he is away. But once we hang up the insomnia sets in. The phone calls do help however.<P>I’m just so needy right now. This is hard for me to take because normally I am very self-sufficient.<BR>Thanks for your idea of giving him a “gentle reminder” that I am not quite there yet. I did that last night based on your suggestion. I think he understands now. But will probably need to tell him this many times. You know how guys are… lol My H is a wonderful man. I love him dearly. Recovery is just not an easy road.<BR>As for renting our “HEAVENLY Love Retreat” goes, I’m working out the price right now with Twyla. Will let you know… <P>Z

Zorweb,<P>I saw your post this weekend with many excellent replies. However, I thought I could supply a different perspective than the rest. <P>You were wondering how your H could seem to jump back into work mode so easily and not have the focus problems you were having. I am able to do the same thing when I travel. I find work to be so intense when I travel that I have trouble being distracted by *anything* else. Even if I intend on contacting W while I'm gone I find it easy to put off (we start early and go late) until a "more convenient" time - which never comes. <P>I just seem to get disconnected from W while I'm gone. Even when I do call I sometimes feel I'm not entirely in the conversation (because of intense focus on trip stuff) and I don't like that feeling. I don't know what this feels like on her side, but maybe that's what you are describing. <P>HNHN talks about how difficult it is to maintain a close emotional bond if you spend too much time apart. You might be feeling that. I don't travel too often but I feel the weakening of the connection with *every* trip. I don't need the daily conversation that HNHN talks about, I miss the daily affection.<P>With the all the activity involved in travel, the *last* thing I want to do when I get back is go out. I love to just sit and veg out. A very quiet in-home afternoon/evening would be perfect! With kids and chores, etc., that is rarely what happens.<P>I understand your difficulty in getting anything done at home. I'm in a different yet similar funk. I have been so focussed on M issues for the last 2.5 months that I have trouble thinking about anything else, even though things are better now. I find that time just vanishes, day after day, and I don't accomplish anything. I know that I need to get the other part of my life back while keeping the good changes I've made because of MB. That part of recovery seems to be going very slowly. <P>I hope some of this made sense. <P> - Jeff

Hi zorweb!<P>I may not be the best one to be giving advice right now, but that never stopped me before <P>My H and I "courted" via email... several emails back and forth every day. Once we got married... the emails tapered off and eventually all but stopped. One of the ways that I'm trying to put the zest back into our marriage is by getting those emails going again. Seems a bit odd, at times, since we're together almost 24 hours a day, but hey, it's what we did while we were falling in love, right? I'm also trying to send him at least one virtual card (or homemade card) every day. I figure if I keep it up long enough, he'll get the hint and start initiating emails and cards to me, rather than just responding to the ones I send ( he does respond very favorably, at least ).<P>I think I'd also slip little love notes into his suitcase where he can't help but find them when he unpacks.... anything/everything to remind him of you when he's not with you.<P>If you can trust your son to not give you away, send the two of them to the grocery store this next weekend. Your son can then take your H down the card aisle and suggest that maybe Mom would really love to get a sappy card.....<P>Do you like any kind of crafts? Anything you used to like, but haven't had or made time to do for a long time? Heck, sometimes I just grab one of the kids' coloring books and boxes of crayons and go to town with that.<P>Are book recommendations "allowed" here? I've got a couple that I'd LOVE to tell you about, but only if it won't be frowned upon....<P>Keep your chin up, hon... <P><BR>Kiera<BR>

Dear Zorweb,<P>Sorry to hear you are blue. They hit sometimes and are hard to shake. It seems like it happens for me more now in the recovery mode than in the plan a/b mode. Maybe it is because our focus is different. Something appears to loom on the horizon, actual or not it seems real. I too get jumpy if I can't reach H during the day. <P>I had one of those episodes today on my way home from work. I had to stay late to clear up an 'emergency' at work and needed someone to pick up our son from the daycare before 6. Try as I may, I could not get H to call back. That brought back memories when OW would turn off his phone during their romps. My FIL came to the rescue. H finally called back and gave his reason, though a bit skeptical it was forthcoming without hestitation. H is not a good liar so it seems more like the truth. <P>I have tried to keep busy, planning projects etc. There is a lot to be done around here so there is an endless amount of work if I am willing to face it. Paint, clean, reorganize, can be done for a while but also do things for yourself. <P>You have 3 energetic young ones? Put them to work. Tell them it is their job to please mom this summer. Easier said than done but worth a try. Let them help you in the yard. Sounds like you have a beautiful place. That is good. <P>But if you want more work, you can come over and I am sure I can keep you busy! <P>L.<P>

Jeffers, Kiera and Orchid<P>Thanks for your replies. There were some great suggestions that I will certainly put into place. They are helping me deal with this and realize the issue that is making me feel down. So here it is…..<P>My husband and I do very similar work – he is a web developer/instructor and I am a software engineer. So I am very familiar with getting lost in one’s work as I am guilty of that too. And you are right Jeffers, it is extra easy to do this when traveling.<P>Jeffers, I think you hit the nail on the head… “HNHN talks about how difficult it is to maintain a close emotional bond if you spend too much time apart. You might be feeling that.” That is what I am feeling. My H travels 1/3 to ½ of the time. He was out of town for 2 weeks in May. In June it’s 3 weeks. He is home on weekends. He is looking for a new job but it will take a while. We have to make the best of the current situation until then.<P>Before my finding out about his affairs his travel never bothered me. But now I have come to realize a few things. We had a long-distance relationship for the first 1.5 years. Apparently he was lonely and did not feel connected to me when we were not together. He says that when he as in MD and I was in NM our relationship seemed like a wonderful dream and not real. When he finally moved here to NM last July, he was still away a lot because of his job. We have never had a period of time when we were together on a normal basis for more then a few weeks at a time. His affairs were partly about his being lonely and feeling disconnect from me. When he moved here, he was not in the habit of coming to me to have all of his needs met. He sought to have them met by the women he met on the Internet. Of course he never bothered to tell me that all of this was going on. And I assumed that if I could handle the separation so could he. And he indeed assured me that all was ok.<P>After reading the books by Dr. Harley we have come to realize the need for us to be together 15-30 hours of focused time per week to build our relationship and to keep a bond going. That gets very hard to do when we only have Saturday and Sunday during many weeks. I am also much more fragile emotionally now needing constant reassurance that he will not repeat old behaviors. <P>I need to have contact with him often during the day when he is away to keep me from slipping out of this marriage emotionally. And as I found out it is also important for him to have the contact with me or I cannot meet his EN’s. If he will not give me the daily contact to meet his EN's then he will be susceptible to have more affairs.<P>We talk on the phone and chat every night when he is on travel. I have told him that I need to hear from him twice during the workday to keep me feeling connected and to keep me from panicking. I’m lucky if he emails or phones me once during he work day. Many days go by that I do not hear from him until I call him at night. By the time I reach him I am fighting a panic… and please realize that I have real reasons to panic here. <P>I have asked him to please keep his cell phone on during the day so I can reach him if I’m panicking or it there is an emergency with the kids. The idea is not that I be able to interrupt his work but that he can get my message and call me back when he has a break. He keeps the cell set on vibrate in his brief case. He never hears it when I call and never checks his messages. So I cannot reach him at all during the workday. If he is not in his hotel room I have not idea how to reach him. And it feels just like the “good old days” when he was too busy with the other women to be available to me.<P>So when he returns home on Friday night we end up sending Saturday playing catch-up. I’m a basket case. Then we have a decent Sunday and he leaves on Monday. <P>I know I’m going on quite a bit here. We knew that June was going to be a very hard month for me with him gone 3 weeks. And I think that it’s harder for him then he admits.<P>What I am looking for are some practical ideas on how to get a very forgetful, distractible, man (ADD) to remember to turn his cell phone on and check his messages. And other things we can do to keep that connection going all week while he is on travel. <P>Thanks all,<P>Z<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

You said, "What I am looking for are some practical ideas on how to get a very forgetful, distractible, man (ADD) to remember to turn his cell phone on and check his messages."<P>This weekend while he's at home, take his phone, switch it to the "on" position, then remove the on/off button -- then superglue it (the phone, not the button) to his body? <P>My H is also extremely forgetful -- he constantly leaves empty ice cube trays in the freezer, which drives me bananas. I finally typed up and taped to the freezer door a "recipe" for ice with step by step instructions on how to fill up the tray with water, place it in the freezer, wait for it to freeze, empty the ice into the bin, then repeat. He got a good laugh out of it, and so far he's been refilling the trays rather than leaving them empty. Now I just have to figure out how to get him to not leave his towels on the floor (without having to resort to nailing them down every time he drops one...).<P>What I'm getting at is that with some men (and women too!), *constant* visual reminders are an absolute necessity. I'm guess a tatoo of a cell phone on the back of his hand wouldn't be appropriate, huh? What about a beeper? Would he wear that, or put it in the briefcase along with the phone?<P>For *you* -- I really want to recommend a book. "End the struggle and dance with life" by Dr. Susan Jeffers (I have no affiliation with the Dr. or the publishing company). If you like self-help books at all, you should *love* this one. It's not religious, although it does talk about a "higher power" -- whatever that higher power is for you. Affirmations are a huge key exercise that she recommends. Repeat "It's all happening perfectly" ten times, several times a day. Your subconscience will start to believe it, after hearing it enough times. Stuff like that.<P>Kiera<BR>

Kiera,<P>I love our super glue idea. Maybe I can have the phone surgically attached to his head? OK... so surgical glue might work.... lol<P>His cell phone can double as a pager. It's one of those really small digial ones so it's easy to wear too. Maybe if he put it on vibrate in his front pocket??? That should get his attention and amuze the class when he's teaching. ronfl<P>He left on this trip on Monday morning. On Sunday night I plugged in his cell phone charger and put the phone on it so that it would be powered up for the trip. He spaced out doing that all weekend. So when he packed on Monday he packed the phone and thought he packed the charger. Well, when I got home from work, the phone charger was on the floor in the laundry room. It had fallen off the folding table when he packed his suitcase. God only knows I love this man like crazy but he is soooo absent minded at times. I understand it because I am the same way. What a pair we make. Eveyone teases me that my problem is that I'm blond. So what's his excuse? LOL<P>Today his phone was off all day to conserve power. Do you know what he is getting for father's day? I think I'll give him a crate of cell phone chargers and surgical glue.<P>I like the idea of tackling this with a sense of humor. A friend of mine suggested that I put post-it notes all over this suite case, pockets, brief case, etc. Reminding him to turn on the phone, check messages, send email, call wife, yada yada yada. So I'm going to go out and get several pads of humerous post it notes and use those.<P>Shopping list<BR> 2 crates of humorous post it notes<BR> 2 bags of candy kisses to put with post it notes<BR> 1 crate of cell phone power cords<BR> 1 large tube of surgical glue.<P>I'm starting to have too much fun here. Thanks ever so much for the ideas.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb,<P>It's good to "hear" you chuckling <P>I think extra cell phone chargers is an excellent idea! Maybe one of the post-it notes could be stuck to the phone, with the message "next time, it'll be the glue sticking your face to this phone instead of this piece of paper" or something like that.<P>I KNOW constant repetition works. Making it humorous helps keep it from sounding like nagging, ya know?<P>Kiera<BR>

Kiera,<P>I know I’ve seen humorous post it notes places all the time when I don’t want to buy them. Now I cannot find any…….<P>Maybe I’ll have to make my own. <P>Like your idea… I’ll try that.<P>Thanks<BR>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Sorry to bring this to the top, but I was gone all weekend and couldn't help thinking about this.<P>Isn't there an electronic version of post-it notes you could use? You've said that your H brings his laptop with him. Does he turn it on often enough that you could have a calendar program running from startup with alarms programmed by you ahead of time? You could even get creative and reveal a piece of your plans for the weekend, a little at a time (assuming he doesn't cheat and look ahead at the reminders, lol).<P>I'm going away next week too, and I'm going to have to make a BIG effort to stay really connected. Maybe I'll leave lots of post-its behind.<P>I saw you were very involved here last weekend. You're a good person!<P> - Jeff

Thanks Jeffers, you're sweet.....<P>As for the electronic postit's. It's a good idea, I'll have to think about it. Since he's in front of a class teaching most days, he only signs on for a short time at lunch and then in the evening. Some days he does not have time at lunch. He will not let me near the lap top to install anything.. even when I view the activity log he is there with me. He's afraid to get in trough with the company if any thing got messed up .. I can understand it. <P>However, your idea did bring something to mind. We do use e-cards at times. Maybe I could send some e-cards, jokes and flirtations. Things that would make him WANT to open his mail.<P>Oh, another thing that might help you with staying connected would be to send her a card, fax something like that while you were gone.<P>I'm going to start a new thread with this idea.<P>Z<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare