<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

You know I was the same exact way. It took my H's EA to change me. I no longer care what others think of me. I can say no and mean no and not feel bad about it. I am still nice-but only to those that deserve it. If you can;t respect me for me- I have no time for you. Kinda a synical outlook-but being nice was what get me burned. Burned badly. I threw out my vulnerability. Now I am strong and capable. And I still find myself reverting back to niceness-like today I apologized to my H for not saying goodbye at the door-(there's more to it than that though) and once again I was the doormat, and he hung up on me. So being nice doesn;t get you anywhere-when you're dealing with a person that lacks respect for you, or in my case calling attention to what he did wrong. Men, I tell ya. So for you it's just a change in your perspective. See the other person for what they are-then be nice. But above all you have to learn that you come first. Which is the hardest lesson I had to learn. And you're thinking should be correct-but today's world nice people finish last. Niceness has it's place. Belive me I have finished last more than I want to admit. Never wanting to rock the boat, oh nothing bothers me, sure I'll do that for you, whatever you want...Those words are not in my vocabulary-unless I want them there. A question you should ask yourself is this-after you have been there for everyone else, who is going to be there for you?

Hi OoOo,<P>I know exactly how you feel. Same over here. Let's step on the giver. I have come to realize (took me a while for I am a bit stubborn), that giving is not always in the best interest of all. Sometimes taking is just as important. As in all things balance is important. My H is a major taker. He is afraid if he doesn't take, it will be taken away from him. Does that make him a perfect fog canidate or what? <P>My parents are major givers and in some cases were taken for a ride (borrowed money kind of stuff, etc.). So was I, H did the most damage in this area. Seems like a lot of his family is in this weird illogical thinking mode. Now I have to learn to protect myself before they all suck the life out of me. I told H that and he agrees. His family is nice but when they have problems (which used to cross my table every week for 10 years), I was there for them. No more, I will be there sometimes but not be the eternal dumping ground. <P>So us givers need to take a lesson from life. While "there is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving", there needs to be a balance. The Bible says that God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son...." This does not mean that he loves the acts of those who willfully disrespect his principles. No because in the past, he did destroy those who loved wickedness and will do so in the future. For me this is a learning point, I must learn to be balanced. Need to have the mind of God to guard my thoughts and actions. <P>Easy to say, hard to do, but I am working on it. <P>L.

fullnest,<P>I think we may have been separated at birth, because you described my life to a tee. During H's EMR, I went into counseling to fix this aspect of myself. I was truly a doormat. Many things bothered me, and I never uttered a peep. I had absolutely no boundaries at all. I was still "friends" with a serial OW who had made a pass at TWO of my former boyfriends! That's how much of a forgiving sap I was. I still have difficulty expressing myself. Unfortunately, H is one of those people who sees my drawing boundaries as a form of control and manipulation. Sometimes I think that he married me knowing that I had no boundaries and that I'd let him get away with whatever he wanted to.<P>belld

It's funny but one of the things my W (WS) told me that drove her crazy was that I would never spend any $$$ on myself. You know...kind of put off stuff that I wanted for me, which I guess was not attending to my own needs.<P>I still have problems with that but I am working on it.<P>But still, why should it be a problem? But i guess if it was a problem then you can't ask why. It's like asking why do you need an EN filled?

My H is the type you describe. I just wanted to give you my perspective and the spouse. From the day we married, he has been the giver. Whenever I asked him what he wanted, it was always "I don't really care either way. What ever you want is fine." He never let me see when he hurt, was always smiling and nice. A very good person. But I think in his own way he was being dishonest, and selfish. He did not show his true feelings so I never knew I was hurting him by my words and deeds. He never gave any importance to his needs, so I stopped seeing his needs myself. After a while, you kind of take their words at face value. I've said so many times - "You must have some needs or opinions." The answer was always - No, I'm fine, really. It would upset me that he would never spend anything on himself or on silly things. You ask why? Because I did, and felf like a leech each time I did. Why is it that he wants me to get what ever he wanted, but if it is his turn he says no? Am I this shallow person who needs worldly possessions, while he is above such things? Now he throws it in my face - that I have expensive tastes, that I never allowed him to spend on himself. That is so not true. But that is his perception, right or wrong. <BR>It is so important for each of us to look of our own needs so we have the strength to look after our spouse and the rest of the world. If you feel victimized, how can you continue to give? Why is it wrong to give to yourself? Love yourself first and then you can love the world without feeling let down. Just as a Taker is difficult to live with, so also with the Giver. Be honest about your needs and respect your needs so others can respect your needs as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brady:<BR><B> It would upset me that he would never spend anything on himself or on silly things. You ask why? Because I did, and felf like a leech each time I did. Why is it that he wants me to get what ever he wanted, but if it is his turn he says no? Am I this shallow person who needs worldly possessions, while he is above such things? Now he throws it in my face - that I have expensive tastes, that I never allowed him to spend on himself. That is so not true. But that is his perception, right or wrong. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>That is what my W would say (or at least nearly) I thought I was doing the right thing making sure she had what she wanted within my ability to provide it an dnot taking my needs into account.<P>"He never gave any importance to his needs, so I stopped seeing his needs myself." <P>That never occurred to me but I can see how someone would think that...interesting take on things. It is making me think...thanks Brady<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lord give me patience, and give it to me NOW!

Check out 'codependency'.<P>My counselor referred me to the book "Codependent No More", by Melody Beattie. It's written in plain, easy to understand language.<P>~Amy