This is going to be one very long message. This is the warning <P>I've gone through this log twice now, removed what swear words I could, changed a few words, spelling errors, ect. Removed places, and names. So 99% of the original document is here. Also removed some things to protect the interests of everyone involved. Some emails in particular.<P>Anyhow, take care everyone. Hope this helps some.<P><B><BR>(Friend) <BR>So how are things?<BR>[H] <BR>Not to bad I guess, just waiting for life 2.0 to begin<BR>(Friend) <BR>Sorry we didn't give you a call.<BR>[H] <BR>No problem I realize you two are busy and all<BR>(Friend) <BR>Been pretty brainless.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah I’ve been keeping out of trouble myself... Or trying too...<BR>[H] <BR>(Knewjie) Filed for divorce, Tuesday I believe<BR>(Friend) <BR>Trying to? No luck?<BR>[H] <BR>Difficult...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I bet.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Have you been talking?<BR>[H] <BR>Yes and no<BR>(Friend) <BR>More or less angry?<BR>[H] <BR>Well she's upset about a lot of things...<BR>[H] <BR>I'm the same way...<BR>[H] <BR>I'm just not sure about anything in life is all (Friend).<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's been pretty life shaking.<BR>[H] <BR>Not sure where I will be, what I'm going to do, how I'm going to get there, If I'll be with anyone, and what not...<BR>(Friend) <BR>None of us know.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We just know about after this life.<BR>[H] <BR>No. And I'm very unsure, and unaware, not positive of anything anymore...<BR>[H] <BR>My problems with (Knewjie), are very much deep rooted, she's been reading a lot, and learning, and realized she's made mistakes, and some of them are messed up, I’ve messed up a lot of things too...<BR>(Friend) <BR>There are more unsure things than permanent things.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Sure you both have.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We all do.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's human nature.<BR>[H] <BR>Well I’ve left out a lot of things too, in all that’s been going on... <BR>[H] <BR>I'm ashamed of me; disappointed in me, and other things... about a lot of **** I’ve done... <BR>(Friend) <BR>.... Things (Knewjie) knows about?<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah... well she found out...<BR>[H] <BR>I'm careless it seems, and some on purpose.<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's common.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You wanted to get out,<BR>(Friend) <BR>So you made some bad choices.<BR>[H] <BR>I'm still making bad choices, I'll really chat with you tonight or something if you like... but I don't think anyone quite knows the whole story, perhaps... I need the help I don't know...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Does anyone need to know everything?<BR>(Friend) <BR>Sometimes it's good.<BR>[H] <BR>Not really, No. I just could use some advice, and all that... <BR>[H] <BR>I'm at a spot right now, where I don't want people to know what’s going on, because I feel pretty lame about everything I’ve done, and I don't want to hear the judgment, that comes from others knowing...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I can understand that.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But as you can you want to make things right too I'm sure.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And some things you can't make right.<BR>[H] <BR>Yes well, and that’s part of it...<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's only important to do a few things.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You have to make sure that you are right with God.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And that is only between you and Him.<BR>[H] <BR>I don't know who I am right with anymore<BR>(Friend) <BR>You're saved, so your sin is paid for,<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve done some things, I'm sure he's not proud of<BR>(Friend) <BR>But he wants to help you grow.<BR>(Friend) <BR>He doesn't look at things on a scale.<BR>(Friend) <BR>If you lie, that's a sin.<BR>(Friend) <BR>If you kill someone, that's a sin.<BR>(Friend) <BR>God doesn't like sin.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We're the ones that get hung up on how bad the sin is.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's all bad to Him.<BR>(Friend) <BR>He forgives one the same as the next.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You see what I'm getting at?<BR>(Friend) <BR>You're relationship with (Knewjie) is the other things you should worry about.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Married or not.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You still have a relationship.<BR>[H] <BR>Yes<BR>(Friend) <BR>You want to rebuild that to get past all this.<BR>[H] <BR>How?<BR>(Friend) <BR>And that won’t be a quick fix.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I'm sure she doesn't want to be friends with you right now,<BR>[H] <BR>Well actually she does...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Really.<BR>[H] <BR>She still wants to be married to me...<BR>(Friend) <BR>That’s cool.<BR>[H] <BR>It's all so confusing... I'm unsure of every step I take.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Take time.<BR>(Friend) <BR>There's no hurry for anything.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Make sure you're moving toward where you want to go, and not just running away.<BR>[H] <BR>When I heard she filed against me, it bothered me, kind of felt this deep down, sick feeling.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It should.<BR>[H] <BR>Whys that<BR>(Friend) <BR>Because there is a bond there.<BR>[H] <BR>How do I deal with the rest of my situation though?<BR>(Friend) <BR>One thing at a time.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You've got money things to work out.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Living arrangements to work out.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And relationships to work on.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And probably a lot more than I know about.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I don't know how you should do what.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I don't even know all that you should do.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But over time you will figure out what is really important, and make that important to you.<BR>[H] <BR>She's hurt me pretty bad in the past (Friend), and she's showing me so much love and compassion lately, and all I do is hurt her, and that worries me. She's changed a lot (Friend), and it’s from her reading, learning, and growing... it makes me second-guess a lot of things...<BR>[H] <BR>Like what the hell am I doing?<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's not to late to change direction.<BR>[H] <BR>On some level, a small part of me, wonders if she's just trying to get back at me... Letting me believe some things, before she shuts it all down... but I don’t think that’s the case here... I don’t know what to think anymore.<BR>(Friend) <BR>A loving marriage is made of choices to love each other.<BR>[H] <BR>I do still love her. I won’t deny that, to anyone except (OW)<BR>(Friend) <BR>It would be another mistake to continue in a mistake.<BR>(Friend) <BR>If you have doubts, don't mute them.<BR>[H] <BR>I just don't know what’s right... If I was unhappy before, will that happen again?<BR>[H] <BR>Will I be almost forced to run a stray as I did?<BR>(Friend) <BR>Sure.... You'll be unhappy again.<BR>[H] <BR>But to what depths?<BR>(Friend) <BR>But things don't have to be the same.<BR>[H] <BR>How does that resolution or agreement come about? <BR>(Friend) <BR>You could start just by working on the relationship.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Compromise.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Biblical principals.<BR>[H] <BR>I did have a long conversation with her last night... <BR>(Friend) <BR>And love.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You have to change some of your views, and she has to change some of hers.<BR>[H] <BR>I talked with her, as a friend mostly, I’ve done some vile stuff to her, and I don’t know why she continues to love me in spite all of it.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Love isn't based on things, it's a choice.<BR>(Friend) <BR>If it's based on things, then it's driven by feelings.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Feelings are liars.<BR>[H] <BR>Hmm<BR>(Friend) <BR>Love is doing what is right, not what feels right.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It didn't feel good for Jesus to hang on the cross.<BR>[H] <BR>I imagine not.<BR>(Friend) <BR>When I was saying that you'd both have to change your views,<BR>(Friend) <BR>I didn't mean to suit each other, but I meant according to scripture.<BR>(Friend) <BR>There are things that she would have to recognize about you as her husband,<BR>(Friend) <BR>And you'd have to learn to be a Christ like husband.<BR>[H] <BR>Hmm<BR>[H] <BR>Difficult for me to do... I don’t even know where to start with that, and I certainly don't feel like a Christian lately...<BR>[H] <BR>In fact, I haven't prayed, or spoken to god, lately, I’m just shamed... <BR>(Friend) <BR>Again, the feelings are liars.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Those are things you should do, but they don't make you a Christian.<BR>(Friend) <BR>God doesn't disown His own.<BR>[H] <BR>I hope not, I need his help, and I am so afraid to ask for it.<BR>[H] <BR>Because when I ask for it, it seems I can't follow it.<BR>[H] <BR>Or the signs aren't so clear, I know some stuff I do is wrong, and when I ask for help, what kind of person am I to then turn and do what I feel?<BR>(Friend) <BR>He always helps us, <BR>(Friend) <BR>But not always the help we want.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It takes time to change what you do.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But that's a result of Him changing who you are.<BR>[H] <BR>There are things I want to just chat about even now... and I don’t say anything because, I really don’t want anyone disappointed with me.<BR>[H] <BR>Including your self<BR>(Friend) <BR>You can talk to me in generic terms if you like.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I get the gist of things quick, and I don't think badly of you.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I want what is best for you.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Though I may not be able to help you a whole lot.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah I know, and... I trust you with my heart and soul (Friend), you and (Friends Wife) both, are two of the greatest people I know... <BR>[H] <BR>I trust the advice you give, because of your knowledge, and wisdom you have to offer on life, and of biblical means<BR>(Friend) <BR>We appreciate that.<BR>[H] <BR>Thing is, I’m having and have been having an affair, I’m sure you picked up on that... With "(OW)" whom you just met... There’s qualities I love about her, and I think I’m still in love with her, I don’t know, if its me just hanging on to someone who understands or whatever... I feel genuinely despicable... about doing what I am doing...<BR>[H] <BR>So I hide from god... I don’t ask for his help...<BR>[H] <BR>Because after all I’m breaking a commandment, and I’m just feeling rotten about everything.<BR>[H] <BR>I don't know why I strayed... I was unhappy... I still am unhappy, I don't even like where things are at now. Where I'm sitting...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I guess as much.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And part of fearing God is that He will want you to change all that.<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve lied about a bunch of things, lied to people about us... and still lying, I tried to clear the slate last night with (Knewjie)... <BR>[H] <BR>Tell her anything she wanted to know, in as honest terms as I could...<BR>(Friend) <BR>How did she take all that?<BR>[H] <BR>Well she's know for a long time I’ve been astray<BR>[H] <BR>I left some **** on my computer, she found...<BR>[H] <BR>My cell phone bill is crazy in debt, because I’ve called and used up a ton of minutes talking with (OW)...<BR>[H] <BR>She knows and has known all about it...<BR>[H] <BR>I fled, and moved, feeling somewhat manipulated by (OW)...<BR>[H] <BR>I wasn't ready to give that up just yet, the euphoria of it all I guess...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Does (OW) live in Colorado?<BR>[H] <BR>So I did some things, I’m not proud of...<BR>[H] <BR>No (OW) lives in ***.<BR>[H] <BR>So I masked a trip to ***, with jobs and a visit to her, to meet...<BR>[H] <BR>I did end up going to *** while I was there, but I'm entirely positive that’s the reason I went anymore... I don’t know why I went. I don’t know<BR>What my intentions were. I think I wanted to start a new life with my wife<BR>I wanted to build my dreams back up. But I got mixed up along the way.<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve been lying to myself, about what I’m thinking and feeling as well... I don't want to hurt anyone in the situation... I'm tired of hurting people...<BR>[H] <BR>I still love (Knewjie), and it's easier for me, to hate her, then to love her... I'm still upset, on many levels, at myself, and her... and I’m genuinely pissed, I let (OW) manipulate me on many levels, to get me to where I am now... She's been a driving force in "leave her" or your weak... I felt that many times (Friend)<BR>That I was weak if I didn’t do this or that to please (OW). That if I stayed<BR>In my marriage I was weak for wanting to work things out with (Knewjie)<BR>(Friend) <BR>What do you think (OW) thinks or wants from you?<BR>[H] <BR>There’s fundamental things I disagree with, and agree with... I think over all she's a kind person, and if I had met her on another day, in a different life, I think things might have worked out... I however chose to lie to (OW) from the beginning as well... As I feel she is lying to me, and has been lying to me.<BR>You made a comment to me, that basically said “I change who I am every 5 minutes so people will like me” I did that as well. I changed a lot of things about me.<BR>[H] <BR>I lied about whom I was, because we were friends long before we met on a game, I role-played a female character on a game, which was rich, and powerful, even in real life, people thought I was this cool person and things...<BR>[H] <BR>So when she asked me who I was, I said, well I’m not a girl, but everything else stands...<BR>[H] <BR>So mistake number one... I don’t know why I didn't come clean, and say, **** I’m just a guy who lives a simple life, with simple things.<BR>[H] <BR>Has a job he hates at times, and sometimes doesn't make enough money to live on his own, but with my income and hers, we live a fantastic life...<BR>[H] <BR>So... I lied to (OW) from the beginning about who I was...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Does she know all the truth now?<BR>[H] <BR>Then I kept doing it, slowly easing down to the truth about who I was...<BR>[H] <BR>Yes... and she's very distrusting of me... and I can't seem to let go of her...<BR>[H] <BR>I too don't trust her, from what I’ve over heard with her STBXH...<BR>[H] <BR>I swear, I heard some things one night, that basically "I was a sucker"<BR>(Friend) <BR>You met her husband?<BR>[H] <BR>She tore down, everything we had, and then she lied to him about the affair... <BR>[H] <BR>No I never met him...<BR>(Friend) <BR>On the phone?<BR>[H] <BR>I heard her speaking to him on the phone, after (W) called him and told him, what was up<BR>(Friend) <BR>On the phone?<BR>[H] <BR>It's a long and complex story...<BR>(Friend) <BR>What do you think (OW)'s plans are?<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t know, but I feel I’m getting used, and manipulated...<BR>[H] <BR>Even my mom, said the first time she heard from (OW), that she was a Manipulating type of person, and that worried her.<BR>[H] <BR>I'm weak... I bend easy it seems...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Now I know what you where saying about not being the "rock" that you referred to months ago.<BR>[H] <BR>You got it man<BR>[H] <BR>I can see that (OW) has some double standards, and that I'm being weak and manipulated at times, she tends to add to my "hate" of (W)...<BR>(Friend) <BR>What are your intentions with her?<BR>[H] <BR>When (Knewjie) hasn't done anything to her... sure (Knewjie) pissed her off, screwing up her life with her husband, by calling and saying look, these two are doing this, thought you should know the truth<BR>[H] <BR>My intentions with (OW)? Well its been a down hill slide (Friend)...<BR>[H] <BR>We seem to get into fights about all sorts of screwed up stuff...<BR>(Friend) <BR>What do you want with her?<BR>[H] <BR>Here... some of an email...<BR>(Deleted) To protect everyone’s Privacy<BR>(Friend) <BR>She sounds resentful.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She's hiding everything from her husband?<BR>[H] <BR>Yes she lied to him, and told him that we never had a physical affair...<BR>[H] <BR>I never lied to (Knewjie), when she found out...<BR>[H] <BR>I lied during it sure, but when she confronted me, I told her yes... well this did happen and the details that followed...<BR>[H] <BR>And so on... So then (Knewjie) calls (OWH), and tells him all about what happened... And then (OW) freaks, and says "Do SOMETHING!" so I call (Knewjie), and reverse and retract anything I’ve said to her...<BR>[H] <BR>Making it sound like no, we never did anything, and I was intentionally hurting her, just because...<BR>[H] <BR>She believed it for about a day, and then filled for divorce the following Monday...<BR>(Friend) <BR>And then you came straight last night?<BR>[H] <BR>Yes<BR>(Friend) <BR>It doesn't sound like (OW) has any long-term plans for you.<BR>[H] <BR>For some reason, I can't let go of (OW), and I “f-ing” want to at times...<BR>[H] <BR>Oh naturally she doesn't she admits to that at times...<BR>[H] <BR>But she turns and says, "I just need time"<BR>(Friend) <BR>Is she like this all the time?<BR>[H] <BR>Or I’m here for you, and I love you...<BR>[H] <BR>Or leads me to believe, there’s some foundation or something there...<BR>[H] <BR>Yes.... well this is the first of many letters (Friend)...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I don't want to sound harsh bro....<BR>[H] <BR>Go ahead please...<BR>(Friend) <BR>But I don't think she thinks much of you, respects you, or wants anything to do with you in the long run.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah slowly, I’m getting that feeling myself, and it hurts kind of you know? <BR>(Friend) <BR>Otherwise she wouldn't unload on you like that.<BR>[H] <BR>She does all the time<BR>(Friend) <BR>She lets you know that she has no tie to you.<BR>[H] <BR>(Friend) <BR>.... I don't know what you're wondering about (OW).<BR>[H] <BR>?<BR>(Friend) <BR>She's pretty clear that she doesn't want you, and won't be committed to you.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Is she divorcing her husband?<BR>[H] <BR>Well no. Those are just letters (Friend), but there are two sides to it.<BR>[H] <BR>She’ll say one thing, and then she'll say something else...<BR>[H] <BR>Yes she's divorcing him...<BR>[H] <BR>Example...<BR>***(Deleted Emails to protect everyone)***<BR>(Friend) <BR>But when she blows up with you she shows her contempt.<BR>(Friend) <BR>That doesn't blend well with "love"<BR>[H] <BR>Anyhow. It’s a ****ing nightmare (Friend)...<BR>[H] <BR>She's blaming me, that I was careless about our affair, like lying is a good thing...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Regardless of what you do with (Knewjie), I'd avoid her if I where you.<BR>[H] <BR>She then lies to her husband about it all<BR>[H] <BR>And tells me "Stick with this story, we met, we never did anything" etc...<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's bad on two levels.<BR>[H] <BR>I'm so “f-ing” sick of lying...<BR>(Friend) <BR>She's trying to uphold a lie,<BR>[H] <BR>Yes.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And she's treating the affair as if it didn't matter.<BR>[H] <BR>Well she told her husband that she fell in love with me and nothing else happened...<BR>[H] <BR>She doesn't want him as an enemy<BR>[H] <BR>Or some BS...<BR>(Friend) <BR>She's looking for an easy out of her marriage.<BR>[H] <BR>Perhaps...<BR>(Friend) <BR>She wants to do what she wants, get out of the marriage, and not pay anything for it.<BR>[H] <BR>Me? Honestly, I’m looking for a way to let go of her...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Just cut it off.<BR>[H] <BR>I can't<BR>[H] <BR>I reflect back on, so many things... <BR>(Friend) <BR>What stops you?<BR>[H] <BR>I'm not sure.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You have your past together, but she'll be nothing but pain in the future.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah I know that, she says hurtful and damaging things... <BR>(Friend) <BR>If you were to get involved with her going forward, there would always be indebtedness between you.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She'd hold it over your head, and you could do the same.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It would be vicious.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah... well... I don't like the situation...<BR>(Friend) <BR>What has she done that shows she cares about you?<BR>[H] <BR>I feel she's out to screw me over... and that’s what she's doing stringing me along, and part of me wants to believe she still loves me...<BR>(Friend) <BR>The affair is self-gratifying.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She'd have to change for things to work out....<BR>[H] <BR>We have an amazing time together in person... its online, that things start to come out...<BR>(Friend) <BR>And you know what that's all about.<BR>[H] <BR>However I’m starting to see things differently in person now, where we are "good" but not great like it was...<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's when the romance fades that reality shows up.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's fantasy that makes things great,<BR>(Friend) <BR>And reality chases that away.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah well I add to it, the whole trip to *** was make believe...<BR>(Friend) <BR>She doesn't even know who you are.<BR>[H] <BR>Nope... Well she does now, and she owns on me sometimes about not having a job...<BR>[H] <BR>Which I left because this whole situation, and to be with her.<BR>[H] <BR>I ran away, from a lot of it, I admit...<BR>[H] <BR>I'm not a rock... I’m weak and human...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I think it's time you stop running....<BR>(Friend) <BR>And catch up with yourself.<BR>[H] <BR>I truly, stand on the fundamental principal that I dislike *** as whole now...<BR>[H] <BR>But that has nothing to do with (Knewjie)...<BR>[H] <BR>I’m just unhappy there... <BR>(Friend) <BR>Make up your mind about what you want in your future.<BR>(Friend) <BR>(Knewjie) can leave ***.<BR>[H] <BR>Well I’m starting down that path I believe...<BR>[H] <BR>I'm just nervous as hell, as to the retribution from all sides...<BR>[H] <BR>I hate being the guy who makes the decisions, and then takes the fall...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Do you know what you really want?<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve been making the decisions for me, and (Knewjie) for a long time now...<BR>(Friend) <BR>This is one decision that only you can make.<BR>[H] <BR>I want to let go of (OW), she's sweet, kind, and loving at times... But our past is damaged goods, there’s no future with her right now. Maybe in the far off future if I was a successful single guy, perhaps...<BR>[H] <BR>(Knewjie), knows me, we've got history, she really is trying, has shown me worlds of love, and compassion through all of this, but I’m scared things will sit exactly as they have in the past...<BR>[H] <BR>Which brought me to being unhappy and the affair...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Maybe you two should work slowly.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Don't do big sweeping things.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Just talk.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Put a hold on the divorce stuff.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Get back to a real foundation.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah, well she's at a ball game tonight... Good to see her getting out, and enjoying life again.<BR>[H] <BR>Wish I was there with her, is all...<BR>[H] <BR>I liked my life (Friend), when it was good. it was simple, pure, easy, and sweet.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You should go to some counseling together.<BR>[H] <BR>Counseling bothers me (Friend)...<BR>[H] <BR>I don't like counselors...<BR>(Friend) <BR>What do you think I'm doing with you?<BR>[H] <BR>Yes well that’s different.<BR>[H] <BR>You’re my friend, and I appreciate your time.<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's the kind of counselor you need.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You need someone like my pastor,<BR>(Friend) <BR>Or another strong Christian,<BR>(Friend) <BR>Who knows all about this sort of stuff.<BR>[H] <BR>Oh and (OW) isn't Christian, doesn't believe in god...<BR>[H] <BR>I'm sure that would ***** slap me in the future...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I know some people with shakier marriages than yours that are strong now.<BR>(Friend) <BR>No doubt.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And for eternity.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah... well...<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve thought about that too...<BR>(Friend) <BR>How much of this do you want me to tell my wife?<BR>[H] <BR>Well, I don’t know how your wife is going to react honestly...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I can let you tell her over time yourself.<BR>[H] <BR>And I’m so tired of being the one people look at with disappointment...<BR>[H] <BR>This forever changes the view people have of me...<BR>(Friend) <BR>The history isn't important.<BR>(Friend) <BR>The future is all you can control.<BR>(Friend) <BR>If you want back with (Knewjie),<BR>(Friend) <BR>It will take time,<BR>(Friend) <BR>Cost you,<BR>(Friend) <BR>And hurt.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But it's the right thing to do.<BR>[H] <BR>Going to have a smoke real quick<BR>(Friend) <BR>And would be well worth it.<BR>(Friend) <BR>OK.<BR>[H] <BR>Well worth making it work with (Knewjie)?<BR>(Friend) <BR>Yep<BR>(Friend) <BR>I think so.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Marriage is a symbol of God's love for us all.<BR>[H] <BR>At times I feel that, Damn I feel so horrible when I talk to her, because she's been a good wife, she's done some things in the past, that have truly hurt me, and I lashed out in such a way... I’m at this point now...<BR>[H] <BR>But I can't blame her entirely for these things...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Part of this has been escalated.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And it happened fast, and fast is bad.<BR>[H] <BR>I should have been more open and honest about how I felt during those times...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Sure.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And you could be now.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But things have to be slow.<BR>[H] <BR>I'm letting (OW), manipulate me too, based on her feelings for me, and my feelings for her, and it continues... it's harsh in the past... I’ve felt I could never meet anyone as caring as her, and lately, I’ve seen some really negative and cynical **** from her.<BR>(Friend) <BR>When everything changes quickly, no body is comfortable, and everyone reacts.<BR>[H] <BR>Where she blames me for things, damages me, on some other stuff, and I’m just f-ing sick of her judging me for a lot of it... <BR>(Friend) <BR>She has some ulterior motive.<BR>[H] <BR>I'd been wondering that myself.<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve been wondering what her motives were, and what she wanted from me...<BR>(Friend) <BR>It can only be bad bro<BR>[H] <BR>While one hand says... I need to be by myself, and all that, she turns and grabs hold of me tighter...<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's why it's best to either cut it off all together, or pursue it to its end.<BR>[H] <BR>Well I’m slowly coming to that conclusion...<BR>[H] <BR>Part of me, right now, wants to call (Knewjie), and say... I'm coming home...<BR>[H] <BR>Part of me says, ride it out, and be safe... figure out where things will go...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Maybe you should call her and just talk about what it would take to come home.<BR>[H] <BR>Part of me says, perhaps there’s a small glimmer that I could put this behind me with (OW)?<BR>(Friend) <BR>Maybe you should plan to talk for some time.<BR>[H] <BR>(Knewjie) is going to call me tonight<BR>(Friend) <BR>If she still says she loves you, and she knows all that.... why not?<BR>(Friend) <BR>We'll be praying for you both.<BR>[H] <BR>I'm really bummed out I’ve put myself in debt because of all of this also...<BR>[H] <BR>F-ing stupid I am.<BR>[H] <BR>So my mom has been helping with what she can... Has loaned me a lot now...<BR>(Friend) <BR>You should focus on one thing at a time.... always moving toward a goal.<BR>(Friend) <BR>If you look at all of it, it can be overwhelming.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You're good for it.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah well not right now, but I will be, when I get back on my feet.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She knows that.<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t know, I often think, getting a chance like I have been to vacation a little bit, has done me some good...<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve been some amazing places lately (Friend)...<BR>(Friend) <BR>San Fran is awesome.<BR>[H] <BR>In the past 3 months, I’ve been to and visited so many states... its crazy... <BR>[H] <BR>Canada, Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, and so on...<BR>(Friend) <BR>That’s cool.<BR>[H] <BR>Drove it all...<BR>[H] <BR>I’ve put about 10000 miles on my car...<BR>[H] <BR>Well don't quote me on that...<BR>[H] <BR>It's a lot...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I know what you mean.<BR>[H] <BR>1350 x 2, then 1300, and then 1100 x 2, etc.<BR>[H] <BR>And so on...<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's a lot of miles.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah... <BR>[H] <BR>I do miss (Knewjie)... <BR>(Friend) <BR>Good.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's good for you to think a while.<BR>[H] <BR>So what do you think? Just talk to (Knewjie)? Don’t sign papers?<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's why we where offering for you to come here too.<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's a very good start.<BR>[H] <BR>Perhaps the next time (OW) explodes on me, tell her I’ve had enough of that BS, and burn that bridge?<BR>[H] <BR>Is there really any graceful out of that situation?<BR>(Friend) <BR>Maybe tell her the truth as well.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's always a good direction.<BR>[H] <BR>(OW)? She’ll be hurt as hell...<BR>[H] <BR>And I’m tired of hurting people, I don’t even want to see the retribution that comes from her<BR>(Friend) <BR>Do you think she respects you?<BR>(Friend) <BR>Do you see a future with Her?<BR>[H] <BR>Not anymore, that’s obvious.<BR>[H] <BR>A future?<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t know... mines so unsure<BR>(Friend) <BR>Is there a foundation that will last till you are old together?<BR>[H] <BR>I doubt it, all those dreams, and memories washed away long ago...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Love, respect, caring, dedication, or commitment?<BR>[H] <BR>Things were doomed, from the start...<BR>[H] <BR>I think I was trying not to toss all my marbles away in one night.<BR>[H] <BR>The only person, I really haven't lied to is (Knewjie)...<BR>[H] <BR>I mean about life, and circumstances, she already knows me... and while I didn't tell her "what was going on" when she found out, I admitted to it.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Maybe you should tell (OW) just that there's no future,<BR>(Friend) <BR>But you need to make up your mind before you talk to her.<BR>[H] <BR>Well from what I’ve been saying, what do my words tell you?<BR>(Friend) <BR>You don't want to make it a point where she is trying to prove herself to you.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I think that you are still in love with (Knewjie), and<BR>(Friend) <BR>That you where disenchanted for a while, so you got involved with (OW),<BR>[H] <BR>I think, part of the thing that bothers, me is (OW) and I were good friends before all this... and it was fun... "That was easy" So we had many a great night laughing about ****... and I know we wont even and can't even be friends now.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But now you are regretting a lot of problems.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I know.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah I’m regretting a lot of stuff I did (Friend)...<BR>[H] <BR>Still am... <BR>(Friend) <BR>But that happened when you had the affair.<BR>[H] <BR>I know she wont trust me, I’ve been as honest as I could with (OW) about who I am since I came clean, and she constantly second guesses me... <BR>[H] <BR>So I’m a liar in her mind, and that’s fine, because ultimately on some level, I really don't even care to defend it anymore... I don’t care, that I’ll always be a liar to her.<BR>(Friend) <BR>The lies were unimportant.<BR>[H] <BR>Meaning?<BR>(Friend) <BR>The fact that she wanted to have an affair with who she thought you were doesn't make it any better.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She's disappointed because she didn't get what she expected.<BR>[H] <BR>Well she's told me time and time again, that things were and could have been beautiful, but it was my fault, because I lied about who I was...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Would she be with you now if all those things were true?<BR>[H] <BR>Meanwhile, I’m struggling to figure out why I even lied in the first place...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I doubt it.<BR>(Friend) <BR>The lies are secondary.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You're two unhappy people looking for something else.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And you made a mistake.<BR>[H] <BR>True<BR>[H] <BR>Damn your smart (Friend).<BR>(Friend) <BR>The lies are details that fit in the mistake.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She wanted a Prince Valliant, and you wanted to be one.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She didn't want you in the first place,<BR>[H] <BR>After I trudged through the castle of vines and bull****, cleared the way... I stood in the tower of the castle, and realized... I saved the wrong girl<BR>(Friend) <BR>Yep.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She’s at home, and still loves you.<BR>[H] <BR>Now, I’m hanging on to some broken memories, and bull**** fairy dust from the past...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Be vulnerable, and tell her how you feel.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And that can only be painful the longer it lasts.<BR>[H] <BR>My other friend also knows (OW)...<BR>[H] <BR>What do I do about that? They talk as well<BR>(Friend) <BR>Online?<BR>[H] <BR>Yes<BR>(Friend) <BR>Let them talk.<BR>(Friend) <BR>There's nothing to do about it.<BR>[H] <BR>Well my friendship with other friend is screwed up anyway...<BR>[H] <BR>He lied, and betrayed my trust... <BR>(Friend) <BR>Your priority is your wife.<BR>[H] <BR>To a completely messed up person, which put (Knewjie) and I in bad position...<BR>[H] <BR>Other friend basically told my life story, and (Knewjie’s) to "(Knewjie’s) ex psycho boyfriend"<BR>(Friend) <BR>You two need to work on just you two.<BR>[H] <BR>All right<BR>(Friend) <BR>He sounds like a snapper head. Her ex that is.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah well he's a parasite (Friend)...<BR>[H] <BR>He feeds off people.<BR>[H] <BR>And uses them up, leaving their blood used, their compassion black and blue...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Like with God, you and your wife have an exclusive relationship.<BR>[H] <BR>Then he moves on.<BR>(Friend) <BR>There are a lot of those in the world.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Every relationship is one on one.<BR>[H] <BR>(Friend), are you still proud to call me your friend? Do you think I’m truly a good person?<BR>(Friend) <BR>Hell yes.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I love you totally bro.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I think you’re a good person.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Being a good person isn't being perfect.<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's fixing the important stuff.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah I hear you.<BR>[H] <BR>Am I weak for wanting to fix things?<BR>(Friend) <BR>No... that's cause you're a good person.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Several people have been hurt through all this,<BR>(Friend) <BR>And there is little that you can do to fix it.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But you can tell (OW) your sorry about the whole mess.... and move on.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You can tell her husband your sorry, if he wants you to.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And you can be a husband to your wife again.<BR>(Friend) <BR>That means many things.... but first of all is straightening things out.<BR>[H] <BR>Well frankly, I’d rather leave her husband out of it...<BR>(Friend) <BR>You can.<BR>[H] <BR>Their issues are their issues... I don’t need to compound and undermine that...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Then don't.<BR>[H] <BR>Not to mention I made a personal promise I wouldn't tell him... <BR>(Friend) <BR>Just tell (OW) that you are sorry, and goodbye.<BR>[H] <BR>So, the issue of me and her, well I think that’s working its way out anyhow... the more time goes on, the more she gets pissed off at me... The more we hate each other.<BR>(Friend) <BR>He knows what's going on.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And what about you toward her?<BR>[H] <BR>Well the more I’m getting sick of justifying my actions to her.<BR>[H] <BR>It's breeding some hatred for sure, I’m getting a bit sick of her high and mighty, and you screwed up again, bull****<BR>(Friend) <BR>You have to be aware of what you want for the long run.<BR>[H] <BR>If I had spend half the energy working on my marriage, as I do putting out the flames with her and I, I could do just about anything...<BR>(Friend) <BR>She might be awful sweet to you the next time you talk.<BR>[H] <BR>She has been too... <BR>(Friend) <BR>And that has nothing to do with twenty years from now.<BR>[H] <BR>We got into this nasty argument you saw earlier, this morning... then later, I sent an email stating again "I'm sorry" I’m at fault... this and that... which really isn't how I feel about things<BR>(Friend) <BR>And you're back to lying.... which pisses you off.<BR>[H] <BR>She’s slapping an awful lot of blame down on me, for leaving stuff on my computer, and then blaming (Knewjie), for being evil and telling her husband...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I don't blame (Knewjie).<BR>(Friend) <BR>She saw (OW’s H) in her position.<BR>[H] <BR>Which I agree is kind of harsh after (OWH) is well on his way from a divorce, but how is (Knewjie) supposed to know...<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t blame her either, (OW) says things, and it almost drones into me, then I start thinking similar things... <BR>[H] <BR>When really day-by-day goes by, and I’ve got no angst towards (Knewjie)... it only seems to come into play, when (OW) and I chat...<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t just sit around and think of nasty things to say to (Knewjie), because I don’t honestly feel like that... <BR>[H] <BR>It's only when I get to talking with (OW), that I start thinking of all the nasty things (Knewjie)'s done, and (OW) fuels that...<BR>(Friend) <BR>You need to figure out what you do think of (Knewjie).<BR>[H] <BR>Well I think she's grown a ton lately, she became more of the woman, I loved and fell in love with originally...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Let (OW) go, and start really thinking on your own.<BR>[H] <BR>It's cool really, to see her getting out, and going and doing fun things again, all the stuff we talked about in the beginning<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's all stuff you have to work through together.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah well, (OW) worked and worked at changing me around (Friend), its not an easy task to just step out of that, it took time to get here, and it'll take time to get out.<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's what I keep saying.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Time is on your side.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah well I agree with that statement.<BR>[H] <BR>I understand all you’re saying, and it makes sense... and I think I’m working towards that...<BR>(Friend) <BR>It's good to hear.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah, well I appreciate you talking with me. I just wish I had more time to talk with you... You really do help me... I don’t know if it’s because we are similar in personality or our humor, or something I don’t know, you seem to say everything that makes sense to me. And such<BR>(Friend) <BR>I think it's because we are friends, and brother in Christ.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We're on the same level.<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t know, in a lot of ways, I wish I had half your knowledge of life... <BR>(Friend) <BR>We're both sinners who've been forgiven, and just want to do the right things.<BR>[H] <BR>/nod<BR>(Friend) <BR>You know allot, just don't let anyone tell you different than you know.<BR>(Friend) <BR>You know (OW) is feeding you crap.<BR>[H] <BR>Hmm I don’t need anyone to really tell me I know **** (Friend), I tell myself that...<BR>[H] <BR>I'm way passed the stage of inflating my ego, because I know so little...<BR>[H] <BR>Yes I do know (OW) is using me in a seriously negative way...<BR>(Friend) <BR>You know what's important. It's just getting to the front of your mind.<BR>[H] <BR>Telling me in some ways, exactly what I want to hear, and in a moment of panic, she backs out... and tells me some things that hurt, that sucks... and then we are back to square one again... up and down with her, and frankly I don't need that...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Nope.<BR>[H] <BR>I'm so drained emotionally and lots of it is between us, this circle of angst, and animosity...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Sure.... but there is a way off that merry-go-round.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Quit riding that pony.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah well I’m just trying to get it to slow down some, so I can get off without being torn to shreds...<BR>(Friend) <BR>I know what you mean.<BR>(Friend) <BR>But is it spinning down or speeding up?<BR>(Friend) <BR>I think you're in a good position to step away from all of it,<BR>(Friend) <BR>And start working slowly to what you really want.<BR>[H] <BR>Not sure, I guess I will find out... the next time she explodes on me for some BS, I’ll be sure and stop being the doormat she's using more for, I’m no ones scape-goat.<BR>(Friend) <BR>And what if she doesn't explode again?<BR>[H] <BR>She well, rest assured<BR>[H] <BR>It's like a daily, weekly thing man...<BR>[H] <BR>In some ways, I think I say things to intentionally piss her off...<BR>(Friend) <BR>And until then it's business as usual?<BR>[H] <BR>Like today, I pissed her off because I said, "I think I’m going to add your husband to my chat client, and have a chat, see how’s he's doing"<BR>(Friend) <BR>Yeah, you're trying to piss her off.<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t know... (Friend), it’s difficult to say really... I don't really want to talk to her at this point...<BR>(Friend) <BR>You handle it as you see best.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I don't want to tell you want to do either,<BR>(Friend) <BR>But I'm just laying out my advice.<BR>[H] <BR>Yeah I know, and I respect your opinion on it, the sooner I am out of the mess with her the better...<BR>[H] <BR>But, I don't want to hurt her in the process either, she's really got no one anymore, and well I’m about to be the last person to leave too...<BR>(Friend) <BR>How long are you going to be there in California?<BR>[H] <BR>A bout a month at least...<BR>[H] <BR>I was supposed to go see (OW) at the end of this month...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Do you have a Bible there?<BR>[H] <BR>We talked about that... (Going to see OW)<BR>[H] <BR>But that’s not going to help. (Going to see OW)<BR>(Friend) <BR>That wont help you make up your mind. (Going to see OW)<BR>[H] <BR>Well I’m sure I do, but I’m not much in the way of a reading type of person (Friend)... Books don't hold my attention very long...<BR>(Friend) <BR>Try just the book or John... It's not too long.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We have a really good one that we want to ship you.<BR>(Friend) <BR>My point is, you want to make decisions about your life, <BR>(Friend) <BR>And you need to refer to your creator.<BR>[H] <BR>Well let me figure out, and just chill with life a bit tonight... Take all this into consideration, figure out how to repair the damage with (Knewjie) and I, figure out how to let go of (OW) and what I should be eating for dinner, since I haven't been eating much in the past 3 months...<BR>(Friend) <BR>That sounds like a good game plan.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I have to do laundry and pack.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We are taking teens to a conference next week.<BR>[H] <BR>Thing I'm worried about, is I get so bored reading, and I want things to make sense, and I don't want reading or learning scripture to be a chore...<BR>[H] <BR>So, hopefully what you’re sending, is easy to read, captures the feel without boring me to tears...<BR>(Friend) <BR>That's partly why I keep mentioning a Christian counselor.<BR>(Friend) <BR>They will help point you at the right Scripture.<BR>[H] <BR>/nod<BR>(Friend) <BR>I have a friend who lives out there.<BR>[H] <BR>Well get your laundry done (Friend), I’ve monopolized a lot of your time this evening.<BR>(Friend) <BR>I can see if he can refer you to someone there, <BR>(Friend) <BR>Or maybe you'd like to go to his church.<BR>(Friend) <BR>?<BR>[H] <BR>I don’t know, I think... my plan was to come visit you guys, and drop by your church... before I jump right back into things... would help me ease into things again....<BR>(Friend) <BR>If you can, you're more than welcome to come here.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Well,<BR>(Friend) <BR>I'm going to get working on stuff.<BR>[H] <BR>Thanks (Friend), love you... I appreciate everything you’ve done for me<BR>(Friend) <BR>We’ll have to keep in touch.<BR>(Friend) <BR>Love you to, Bro.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We are always yours.<BR>[H] <BR>Remind your wife, I’m human, if you discuss all this stuff, I don't want to her to be disappointed in me<BR>(Friend) <BR>That can wait.<BR>(Friend) <BR>She wouldn't be upset, but I can give it time.<BR>[H] <BR>All right<BR>(Friend) <BR>You haven't lost any ground here.<BR>(Friend) <BR>We'll talk soon.<BR>[H] <BR>All right, thanks again<BR>(Friend) <BR>Sure thing.<BR></B><P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie