<Newbie! 1st post! Emotional train-wreck!><P>Been reading as much of this as I can and think I've got the basics pretty well.<P>Been trying to Plan A for a few weeks now... It's tough, and here's why:<P>I don't make enough money. OM is apparently worth big $$$. And "handsome."<P>OK, so I could care less about his looks, and as far as character goes, this guy is slime. I'd gladly go mano y mano in terms of heart and soul...<P>But how do I start plugging that Emotional Need #5: Financial Support? When we got married, there were no smoke or mirrors... I didn't make a TON of money. I have potential to make money, of course... I'm young and smart, but...<P>{Next line is to be read in Sarah Jessica Parker's voice with accompanying visual of words being typed on screen of laptop)<P>What do you do when the only way to deposit love units is to deposit $$$?<P>There's so much more to this situation, I can't possibly explain it all in this post. Let's just start with this point, and I'll elaborate later... I'm just curious about opinions on people who get seduced by money. I know there's more to my wife than this, it's just a matter of her allowing that person to come back and have some input instead of shoving that voice away.<P>Thanks to all.<P>Apologies to Darren Star and the SATC girls...

I think I need to know a little more about your situation to answer fully.<BR>I am searching to see if I missed an initial post about what is going on.<P>But I think if Most of the emotional needs are met then the others won't be as pressing. She must have other emotional needs beyond money..I would say focus on those.<BR>

What about finding another job? Or an additonal one? That would guarantee making more money.. but depending on what her other EN's are, that could intrude on those. If she needs you to be around to spend quality time together (lets say, 'conversation' in the evenings... then working more would end up being an LB).<P>Is there any chance she would fill out the EN questionnaires? You'd get a far better understanding of what EN's are at the top of her list.<P>Karen

Hi, fake_name...<P>The main thrust of Plan A is to make your marriage a safe and happy place for your spouse to be. <P>The first step in doing this is the elimination of Love Busters. Those, of course, are the things we say and do that show disrespect for our spouses - when we are judgmental, when we are selfish, when we are just plain mean and unreasonable. They are the things that drive those wedges between us. Work on THOSE first - eliminate them completely. You can find lots of information about Love Busters here on the site. Be honest with YOURSELF. Take a good, hard and critical look at your behavior and interaction with her. That is not to say that everything that is wrong in your marriage is due to YOUR behavior - I'm sure it is not - however, the only person you can change is YOU, so that is the only person you should concentrate on changing at this point.<P>Meeting Emotional Needs is nearly impossible when someone is in an affair. You do your best to meet those that your spouse allows you to meet, but generally, once in an affair, your spouse believes you CANNOT meet their emotional needs and shuts you out.<P>As for the money issue, just an opinion here (I'll be interested in seeing how others feel on this one): "Financial support" to me means contributing a reasonable amount (generally at least half) toward normal living expenses such as housing, utilities, food and clothing. Gifts are nice, but they are not part of "financial support" they are a totally DIFFERENT emotional need. I can EVEN see a spouse (typically a woman) expecting that the other spouse to contribute more than half of those living expenses if the contribution of the first is domestic support (care of household and child/ren). However, financial support does NOT include throwing money around to buy the spouse whatever he/she wants or take him/her wherever he/she wants - that's just plain greed.<P>Don't let the slime see that this is something that hurts you in any way, or he will use it as a tool against you big time. Don't let your wife see it either ... but also, don't be cavelier about her emotional needs if she identifies them to you clearly. Be the best husband you can be with the tools that you have available.<P>Hope this has helped in some way.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Wow! 3 replies that quickly... This board is the best...<P>Caterpillar: Nope, this was the 1st post... I guess I'm really going to have to {sigh} post the whole story... Or at least enough to help...<P>Topie: I've suggested the other job... She says "Too late." I've also suggested modifying my career path... I will take another look at the other EN's... But like terri sez...<P>Terri: You're absolutely right. Meeting emotional needs when someone else is in an affair is impossible. I'm doing the best I can though... I think she's genuinely bewildered as to why I am even still at home. As far as the greed thing goes... well, she does demand material things above and beyond the basics... This is certainly one crux of the problem as she has not yet learned that MONEY DON'T BUY HAPPINESS.<P>What do you mean about not letting the slime "see that this hurts me"? The affair itself, or the money thing?<P>i'm going to type up the bigger picture now and will post it later so ya'll will have the rest of the story...<P>THANKS SO MUCH!!!

I do know of another case where the wife and boyfriend loved each other very much but ultimately the wife married someone else because this boyfriend (10 years live in) didn't have enough money. She was not looking for riches or spent extravigently but the amount of money didn't fulfill her needs. She wanted a nicer home and to sometimes travel. He provided an OK lifestyle and a very good everything else but the money thing is what caused her to eventually drop him. This doesn't help you much except to tell you that this is common.

I don't think that this is what one can call "common".<P>The majority of divorces involve infidelity, and as you can see from this board, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between $$ offered by the OP as compared to $$ offered by the BS.<P>There are alot of issues, and the bottom line is that you have to meet as many ENs as possible. There are plenty of happy couples that do not have lots of money.<P>Focus on doing the best that you can in all areas, including your job, but also including everything else.

OK, some background:<P>We've been married for 2.5 years, have been a couple for 4 years. We have a wonderful daughter (hers from previous marriage, 9 yrs old) whom I have developed an incredible relationship with.<P>You should know that our relationship started as very close friends and confidants, then developed into an A. I was the OM, unmarried. I was very reluctant to begin the relationship, but she persisted and I am, in fact, human. I don't fall in love and/or progress to "real" love (i.e. Peckian) easily (no one does), but it happened here. Her marriage was failing because her H worked all the time (especially during the first 5 years of the little one's life) and she felt neglected, angry towards him. He made a lot of money and was on the track to make even more, but I was the one filling the EN's. He found out and walked; nasty divorce measures ensued but ultimately resulted in a 1-yr sep. He took his income , she kept the house (and big mortgage). We were married 3 months after the divorce was final.<P>Marriage started great and real love was there, but money has constantly crept in to cause problems. My W in the last 6 months has grown to resent me for contributing to the break up her first marriage, or so she says, even though she admits she was key part of the problem. Doesn't help that her ex-H still makes big $$$ now and is remarried. Throw in friends who have lots of money (married old men for $$$) who drink a lot, plus a job where she meets lots of powerful, wealthy people, and here we are. I've tried to take care of her and her daughter the last 4 years through love and support, and she's ready to throw it all away for a guy with $$$.<P>About the little girl: I've been the closest person to her for the last 4 yrs. I'm the one who cooks her breakfast, takes her to school, is there first at home at night, gives her baths, reads to her class every week, soccer coach, encourages her w/school and help her with homework etc etc. I do this because I care. This is who I am and I love being there for her. She adjusted well to losing her dad (she still does see him every other weekend and has a good relationship with him) and I am responsible for that. My wife has, of course, also helped along the way and loves her little girl more than anything, but honestly I have done the most in the relationship.<P>The A has been going on for about 2 months. I found out about three weeks ago. My W wants me to move out and has said that she wants a divorce. I of course reacted angrily initially as well as hurt, then was able to shift to a Plan A approach by maintaining an even keel and continuing to "do" for her and our girl. She's put the affiar right in my face, and I've just smiled (well, not really) and said, "Stop it. Let's work on this marriage." This sort of reaction has confused and then angered her, but sometimes I see flickers of her listening to me. Then she just goes out and hurts me some more.<P>Nobody but me seems to want to stop her. I'm the only one who sees that she's not going anywhere good with this. My opinion is, isn't right now a good opportunity to make a choice towards a better future for herself by committing to examining herself and acknowledging issues, problems, and trying to move forward? I'll stick by her for that. I know it won't be easy, but I made a commitment, $%#$ it! I know you can't change other people, only yourself, but can't you try to make other people see the need for change?<P>That's all I've got in me right now. I've certainly underrepresented the situation. I'll fill in gaps later as necessary.<P>Never once when I was a little boy, dreaming of the bizarre, abstract experience of what it would be like to be a "grownup", did I ever even slightly consider that it would be possible to be so completely devasted and feel this kind of pain.<P>Thanks all - good night.

Hi All:<P>I had another post typed out and posted, but after I read your update I changed my mind...I think your wife is too concerned with money.<P>Probably she was use to a certain lifestyle when she was married to her first husband and she misses it. The affair came along and made up for a lot of things for a while, but the new wore off and reality has creep in.<P>In this case, I think counseling would be your only hope of getting things back on track...your wife has to realize that money "won't" buy happiness...that's a trite saying but it's true. It certainly didn't buy happiness in her first marriage.<P>Of course, it may well be that lack of money is just a smoke screen for other problems...in other words, if things were wonderful between you she might not even consider money as a factor. Are there other problems in the marriage? The EN questionarie might be a good way to start to discover what is missing in your marriage. Or try reading "His Needs, Her Needs." <P>Did your wife grown up deprived? Or is she from a wealthy family? Both can lead to heighten expections in a marriage as to money...expections that often can't be fulfilled by the partner. But the failure is in the expectation not in the partner...especially if he has done the best he can do...and that's really all a spouse is entitled to expect.<P>Faye<P> <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 19, 2001).]

Firstly brilliant choice of name (Fake_name)<BR>I really love that<P>Well I KNOW there are people like your wife who truly will go after money as that is what the Ow did in my case. She even admitted it was the reason she had the affair with my H. So people dont discount that some people do just feel they DESERVE money or what other people have and wil go get it.<P>Is the man she is having the affair with married?<BR>If so, simple, ring his wife. That will stop him quick smart and bring her then to her senses. But she will need counselling to realise that money doesnt buy happiness and you cant just go and get it from someone else.<P>good luck. the other thing is this is her second affair, NOT GOOD AT ALL :-(<p>[This message has been edited by alsohurt (edited June 20, 2001).]

Hey, fake_name: Not much in the imagination territory when coming up with your screen name, eh? <P>You said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Her marriage was failing because her H worked all the time (especially during the first 5 years of the little one's life) and she felt neglected, angry towards him. He made a lot of money and was on the track to make even more, but I was the one filling the EN's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, I'm not going to give you the "live by the sword, die by the sword" lecture, but your story is living proof that someone who will cheat on one spouse will cheat on another.<P>But that said, gee whiz, no one can win with your W, can he? If hubby works hard and makes a lot of money, he's neglecting her. If he focuses instead on the marriage and family, he's not making enough money.<P>I'll tell you a secret, fake: If your W leaves you for OM she is going to repeat her first marriage again. You heard it here first.<P>Sounds to me like the problem is in your W's head. She thinks money is important to her, but when she has it, she focuses instead on the neglect. When she gets the attention, she focuses on the money. Methinks your W is unable to get close to anyone, but instead of seeing the problem as inside herself, she decides that whatever man she's with is the problem.<P>If your W is unable to see this, and unwilling to get counseling, there is not much you can do. What you DO need to do is avoid the temptation to try to "compete" with this man on his own playing field, because then you'll be neglecting her. She probably feels unworthy of being loved. Without help, she will ping-pong like this the rest of her life. This is the absolute truth. My sister was like this: if she got attention, she was being smothered. If she didn't, she was neglected. Until she got some help and straightened out.<P>So what can you do? Exactly what you're doing. But do it because it's the right thing to do. Your W has no idea of this pattern she's in. Another reason to do what you do is that little girl. She needs stability in her life, and she is not going to get it from her mother.<P>Good luck to you, my friend.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The majority of divorces involve infidelity, and as you can see from this board, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between $$ offered by the OP as compared to $$ offered by the BS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In my case, there certainly was. It is no coincidence that my H left while shortly after our oldest started college, when it really hit home how we would never be able to get out of debt. It is no coincidence that the OW is wealthy.<P>My H's happiness has always been related to financial position, especially amount of debt as opposed to income. He admitted that many years ago, after we went to a group couples workshop, our relationship improved - and the only thing that we discussed or changed as a result of that was that I started providing more than half of our financial support. <P>

Gee whiz, can that <B>Dazed and Confused</B> write a great response, or what?<P>Listen to her!!<P>I feel for you... your W reminds me a bit of my ex-H... and I can't put my finger on the "why" of it. My ex was the workaholic who wanted to keep secret bank accounts while I was bouncing checks to pay for food. Maybe it's just because he could never seem to be happy, no matter how much we had. The fact that our marriage went by way of the toilet right when things might have shaped up a bit financially was a bit surprising... yet... his latest GF (OW #5 in the marriage) works part-time and barely makes ends meet. <P>I think anyone can come up with any excuse to support their reasons for whatever they do. Your W has done that ... now it's money... next time it will be something else. Maybe she's depressed, maybe she's just selfish... I guess you would know that better than us.<P>I'm sorry for your pain... and that your "worth" as a H seems to be tied up with money. <P>Just some words of comfort (I hope) for you... no advice, because I don't have a clue what to tell you, to be honest. Just understanding.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited June 20, 2001).]

I can't tell you all how much your responses mean. But then I guess a lot of you know because you've been here. Thanks so much again.<P>To respond to some of your questions...<P>Buffy: She was neither deprived nor wealthy growing up, but she told me that she did have a "complex" about wanting to live in the "cool" neighborhood. This discussion was back when things were "normal", before her priorities shifted back to material things...<P>alsohurt: Don't know _exactly_ who the OM is... Know he's offered to pay everything off if I am out of the picture... And I know... 2nd affair... which leads me to...<P>Dazed and Confused: (One of my fave films, btw) Agreed on all your points, except my screen name... That's not lack of imagination, that's irony! Here's the thing... I think you're right that until she looks inside herself for the problem instead of outside, this cycle will repeat itself... HOW DO YOU HELP SOMEONE BREAK THE CYCLE? You mentioned that your sister was able to get help. Can you elaborate? My W has been going to a therapist on and off for 2 years... He has obviously been unable to get her to look inward. He's telling me now to just let her go, that the only way she'll learn is on her own, probably when she has to endure a great "fall." Why does it have to be this way? Why can't this situation be eligible for intervention?<P>Like I said, I'm maintaining... Because it IS the right thing (and seemingly the only thing) to do, and because I love her and the little girl. But she is pushing me out. She wants me to be out of the house as soon as possible. When does plan B start?<P>Thanks so much again! f_n

{bump}

f_n<P>Thanks for your post. I feel REAL bleassed and lucky to have found this board while there's still time. <P>Your description above comes real close to my own situation. Ever since we've been married, we have struggled over money. We both make plenty (she would disagree), but I'm always trying to curb her spending so we can save for retirement, son's college, etc. She strongly resents that she makes more $$$ than I do. <P>I feel like I'm a fish out of water on this. I'm truly clueless about what to do. Like you said, how can we make Love Bank deposits in cash? <P>Thanks again.

Keith:<P>Glad it helped! Make sure you check your other thread... Ishmael wrote a masterpiece of a response...<P>f_n

fake: Ah, and here is the rub with therapy: The person has to WANT TO DO THE WORK TO GET BETTER. My H says I'm the only person he knows who has gotten anything out of therapy. Why? Because I want to get better and I'm willing to do the work in order to get there. Therapy isn't about fun, and it's not about support. It's not about paying someone 80 bucks a week to tell you you're right. It's about having a trained professional walk you through the minefield of your baggage and teach you how to change the destructive thought processes and patterns you've learned as a result of the baggage.<P>Most people go into therapy with the attitude, "Here I am. Cure me." It doesn't work that way. I have a 74-year-old mother with borderline personality disorder who understands that she's ill, but lacks the will to change. So people continue to not live up to her absurd expectations, and it's never her, it's always that they're irresponsible, or mean, or they hate Jews, or whatever. Your W could very well end up this way.<P>Some therapists can dig under the surface to the real problem. I've been lucky in that I've found therapists who did. But maybe I just know how to pick them. If your W is going to someone who listens to her and doesn't see what's going on, this person is not going to do her any good.<P>You cannot help your W if she will not help herself. You are not bad, or irresponsible, or a loser because you don't make the kind of money she wants. It's not as if she didn't know that. (And BTW, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that many spouses who marry the OP sooner or later throw the "I could have stayed with my ex" line around.)<P>One other thing about money: Many people use it to try and fill the gaping hole inside themselves. It doesn't work. They feel that if they just have enough clothes, a big enough house, a fancy enough car, etc., etc., they'll be happy.<P>My mother is recently widowed. Her H was a wonderful man who treated her like a queen. She never appreciated him. Now he's gone, and even as we speak, my sister is up there helping her to pack to move out of state. I was up there last month and came home with a carload of stuff, including bags and bags of clothes -- much of it with the tags still on it -- that she never wore. The movers ran out of boxes today because she's accumulated so much STUFF. And she won't let my sister throw away an old dried-up tube of Blistex. Imagine how empty she must feel inside. <P>This is your W in 40 years, fake. But it doesn't have to be you. Whatever happens, fake, the folks here will be with you.<P>PS -- I liked DAZED AND CONFUSED too. Richard Linklater hasn't done a good flick since, though.

Thanks D&C!<P>It makes me shudder to admit to the possibility that my W might never change... That she may go through the rest of her life unhappy and searching. Sure, sad for me, since I experienced a brief period of time in whch she had made real progress and had seemed to learn what was "real," but also sad for her...<P>Just this morning she reiterated how she needs me to move out, how she needs to be by herself and re-establish herself financially without me. Funny how she doesn't mention the OM and how he is the one financing this separation. Ah, denial...