As I've read more on these boards I've found that WS almost follow a script, several of you have taught me that. It's amazing how human emotions try to justify themselves in nearly identical ways in such diverse situations.<P>So here's my question. I'm in plan B, my W has moved out, she's got herself a little apartment across town. I basically gave her cart blanch to take anything she wanted from the house. *And you can't even tell she's moved out* by looking at the house. About the only things she took were her cloths (and only some of those - she left all the winter ones here), her toiletries, her bedroom tv, and a stack of birthday cards she kept in a drawer (that's another story - they were all from her job, where she met her soulmate, and I think she's having an affair with the job as well as the OM). By going to Goodwill, and getting help from a friend, she's pretty well outfitted her apartment.<P>It wasn't a question of space, she's got a lot of closet room. I'm just puzzled. She left a bunch of stuff that at least used to have meaning for her, like her precious moments collection, and even pictures of the kids. Like I said, you look around and you can't tell she's moved out. But go to her apartment, and it's fairly well furnished.<P>So is there anything to "make" of that? Is this like a half hearted attempt to move out and somewhere in her mind she plans on returning, or is it like she doesn't want to have any reminders of her life here?<P>And another curious thing - you guys are going to shoot me for this, but in a weak moment as I was helping her move, I slipped back into plan A mode and told her she could do her laundry here. She makes sure she does it on Sunday morning when I'm at church, but while she's here, she cleans! But it doesn't need it, I'm a good housekeeper, actually a better one than my wife is or was and I often did many of the chores over the years, but she cleans anyway. Is that weird? Is she trying to work off some guilt? Or pay for using the washer and dryer?<P>I know I'm probably focusing on trivial stuff, but I have this strong feeling that my WS may never come out of her fog, so I guess I'm trying to find signs I'm wrong about that.<P>Thanks in advance,<P>Ishmael<P><BR>"Love is stronger than death" - King Solomon

Don't question the WS's motives - you'll lose in the end.<P>Chances are she feels guilty and is cleaning, or maybe she just needs something to do while the laundry is being washed. <P>Also, she probably doesn't want the memories and is why she's not taking the stuff. Or she just didn't think about it and will remember later.<P>Don't question - you are in plan B, it doesn't matter... (as I am trying to learn)<P>

Ishy - I can definitely identify with your description. My wife left a lot of things that I'm sure she will eventually claim. When she left, I'm pretty sure she didn't know how long she'd be gone, and openly speculated that some of the new things she bought we could use if/when she came back. However, since then, this kind of talk slowly disappeared.<P>She doesn't come over very often, but she has taken some responsibility to care for the dogs - they were her idea anyway. I agreed to keep them for our son, who stays with me most of the time. She is usually concerned if the carpet needs cleaning or the flower beds need mulching. I ignore it instead of responding like I want to: you have no standing here to comment on those things.<P>Anyway, I think some of the things my wife did/does and the things you describe ARE because of guilt and indecision. But I don't think we should use this as a barometer on any given day - rather, the long term trend may be more of a predictor.<P>WAT

HI Ishmael:<P>I've related this story before but I think it's appropriate here. When WH left to move in with OW he took only a few things and for a two months never took anything else...he eventually made a half-hearted attempt to return home...and ended up going back with OW...well, this was enough for me (this was before MB) and I took all of his clothes and things and took them up to the office (we work together) and dumped them in his car. Well there they stayed...he never took them to OW's...he kept them in his car for five more months until he final came home again. <P>I think that although they want to be with OW or OP there is something that keeps them from severing the ties to the BS...and that is something that can be built on...on in your case, counted on to be a factor in the effectiveness of your Plan B. I do think it is a mistake to let her do her laundry there...I think you should sever all opportunities for her to be in her old life...until she can give up OP. If you're going to do this...do it and do it well so that perhaps you only have to do it once...I know I've waffled and I sit here after five years.<P>Faye

*And you can't even tell she's moved out* by looking at the house. About the only things she took were her cloths (and only some of those - she left all the winter ones here), her toiletries, her bedroom tv..."<P>Oh, Ishmael!!<P> I had to laugh out loud when I read your post!! This sounds *exactly* like my H!!! He took almost exactly the same things!!!!! I mean, if you look in his closet, you wouldn't know he was gone!!! Same thing!! No winter clothes. I've often wondered if it doesn't get cold in Wonderland?<P>Only difference is that he doesn't come here to do his laundry. I guess OW's machine is *better* than our brand new ones. Oh, well, since she's 150 miles away, I guess it'd be hard to make that trip. Anyway, it's better this way...I'm not tempted to do stupid, obsessive things!!<P>And it'll be easier to know when or how to Plan A or Plan B. Actually, I guess the distance (and lack of contact) makes us Plan B? Well, at least I'm not confused about what I should do now!!!!<P>Take care,<BR>Lupo

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I just had a feeling this too was "typical" behavior.<P>But several of you mentioned that your WS moved out to live with their OP. This is one of the things I just really don't get about my situation. My W's OP is MM and has stated told her (at least this is what she says) that he could never leave his wife or divorce her because she'd take him for all he's worth. In my opinion, I think my W thinks she's found a soulmate, while the OP is just interested in sex (at least that's about all he ever talked about in his emails).<P>So is she really trying to choose between he and I, given that he's told her she can't have him, or what is she trying to sort out. It looks to me from their correspondence that she thinks she's in love, while he's just feeding her lines and getting free sex. I guess, if I thought she thought they might have a future I could understand better.<P>Ishmael<P>Love is patient and kind - Paul of Tarsus - I had no idea what that really meant until now.<P>PS - I agree with you that the laundry was a bad thing to do, but I don't see how I can retract it now without being simply perceived as mean, which, of course, I don't want to communicate at all.

You're making the silly mistake of thinking about all of this rationally. What's obviously absurd to you and me can be revelation to a WS with moose brain worms.<P>Have you considered spilling the beans to OM's wife?<P>WAT

When my husband left he packed one bag and left everything. 23 years worth of belongings: fishing poles, tools, books, etc. etc. I think they are not thinking and are not really even experiencing life as we know it but as a drug addict might. The here and now are what they live in and they don't want to think about the past or the future. My friend actually cleaned out all my husband's closets for me (it was too painful) and then a few months later I left the bags in the driveway on one of the days he was picking uo the kids. He got the idea. By the way we just started counseling after 10 months of a very strong Plan B. So "Hey, ya never Know!"<BR> Kris

Ishmael,<P>I'm not in Plan B yet (I did make an attempt at it once and failed) but I can identify very much with what you're going through.<P>My wife did take all of her clothes. She left in March, so I guess she wanted to be prepared for any type of weather. She did take her curio of Snow Babies. But curiously, the handmade glass top to our wedding cake was also included. I figure she would have either packed that up or just told me to.<P>But other than that, my situation is very similiar. All of our pictures of the girls remain here. I've been to her new place many times lately. There are no photos anywhere.<BR>She has not bought anything large for the house (appliances) nor has she bought any rugs, bathroom or kitchen furnishings, towels or other linens that wouldn't also match the decor of our real home. You're correct, its like there is an underlining meaning here somewhere.<P>But then again, WAT is also right, we are making the mistake of thinking about this rationally...

Hi Ishy,<P>When my H (WS) moved out he also took vey little. He left 3/4 of his personal belongings when we seperated. That was 1 year 2 mos ago. And he too furnished his new place by way of Good Will and hand-me-downs. We are now, June 13, 2001, divorced and his stuff is still here. By our D decree those things he left do belong to him, however, he has drug his feet about getting them.<P>Do not be discouraged by my story tho, Ishy. Every situation is so very different. As HurtbyHubby has said ... don't question their motives ... you won't get aywhere by doing that. And what WAT said is very true, "the things you describe ARE because of guilt and indecision. But I don't think we should use this as a barometer on any given day - rather, the long term trend may be more of a predictor."<P>Best,<BR>Jo<P>

You guys are exactly right. I'm sitting here arguing with a slot machine and demanding an explanation as to why it won't land on the jackpot After all, I've been doing all the right things, I put the money in, I pull the lever (with kindness and gentleness) and it still gives me lemons. I even try to talk to it in nurturing and understanding ways.<P>Thanks for the reality check guys... Another trip to insanity land narrowly averted