I've been reading this site from time to time for a few weeks and have refrained from chiming in with a message of my own. However, I now feel compelled to come to the defense of both of you (Cascade & Humblefish). You guys have taken a major, totally undeserved BEATING on this site. <BR>Once I make sure I've figured out how to post messages, you'll be hearing from me!<BR>You guys are O.K.<BR>From,<BR>Realitycheck

I think if you read all the posts to these individuals you will see a lot of support as well.

realitycheck<P>Welcome to Marriage Builders. Please do not construe what HumnbleFish is getting from the other members of this site as a BEATING. Read ALL of her posts and their responses. She has gotten an enormous about of support from the people on this forum. She has in fact BEATEN the rest of us up pretty well a few times. lol <P>I think that what you see going on here is a good, healthy, and perhaps heated exchange of ideas.<P>HumbleFish has come a long way as all of us have. Her posts have often made me dig very deeply into the issues. Do she and I see eye to eye? On somethings yes and on others no. We have totally different persectives and life stories. But we are talking as are the others on this board.<P>As for Cascade.... I'm not sure what to think there. Her post the other night upset many. Did she get a BEATING? I'm not sure that's what it was. I do think she took it as that and did not offer much in the way of explaination as to why she thought her situation was different. When I went back and read her previous posts I can understand, to a point, why she is where she is at. When anyone posts here they cannot assume that the others remember all of the details of their previous posts. It is important to present the information at that time. I do wish she would come back and see that some are trying to reach out to her.<P>And you my friend, why are you here at Marriage Builders. What is your story?<P>(And of course if you want to see mine or that of any of the other members of this forum just do a search on the member's name.)<P>To post a message thread, look at the bottom of the forum screen for the "Post New Topic" button. That's all there is to it.<P>Welcome and happy posting.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

RC:<P>It isn't that they are taking a beating: they are having certain fogs lifted.<P>While I do have some sympathy for OPs and even WSs (I hope so, because I was one); remember that the true VICTIM in affairs is always the betrayed spouse (BS). Yes, WSs have needs and issues too, and this site goes a long way toward helping WSs in their attempts to (a) get out of the fog and (b) recover their marriages.<P>Input from OPs (Other People) are welcomed here, as they have a unique perspective to add to many of the threads here. However, this site is about MARRIAGE building ... OPs with issues beyond the scope of their often-valued input here should seek another forum or their own counselors. Perhaps there is a site called <A HREF="http://www.adulterouspartner.com" TARGET=_blank>www.adulterouspartner.com</A> or something. (Actually there is: <A HREF="http://www.gloryb.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.gloryb.com/</A> [The Other Woman].)<P>So, welcome to Marriage Builders.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

I think I got the posting right, so I'll now respond to my OWN message.<BR>1. CASCADE:<BR>If you've met someone you really love and who meets all of your needs, WHY are you asking the people on this site to validate that feeling? Why don't you just depend on your own common sense and good judgment? Why don't you do what YOU think is best? You know the details. You sound like an intelligent person.<BR>These anonymous people whom you've never met don't know you; they don't know your husband; nor do they know your Man. Yet they all jump in AUTOMATICALLY (did you notice that?) and tell you to LOSE the Man who is fulfilling all of your needs and making you happy. Did you expect them to give you any OTHER advice?<BR>You've heard the phrase: "Misery Loves Company". The people on this site are not out to help you, Cascade. They have but one goal, and that is to perpetuate losing, miserable marriages, at ALL costs. "True Love" is not in their vocabulary. KEEP IT IN YOURS!!! <BR>I say go with your inner voice and RUN, DON'T WALK, to your soulmate, the Man who makes you so happy. <BR>2. HUMBLEFISH:<BR>You have taken a real beating on this site. Everyone wants to dismiss your feelings because they want to judge you because they think you drink too much. Don't you know that the hostility recently directed toward you has nothing to do with the fact that maybe you drink too much, but REALLY has to do with the fact that you are the HATED and VILIFIED "Other Woman"? Do you really think these people are looking out for your best interests? Of course not. They hate the likes of people like you. So take what they say to you with a grain of salt.<BR>I hope you continue to post, because I enjoy your perspective on the misconceptions these people perpetuate regarding the so-called "care-free life" of single people, vs. the so-called "serious" life of married people, and because I think, despite all the controversy you stir, you make some DAMN good points!<BR>Take Care.<BR>Realitycheck

Realitycheck <P>RE: These anonymous people whom you've never met don't know you; they don't know your husband; nor do they know your Man.<P>You Realitycheck are as anonymous as the rest of us. And you know nothing more about her, her husband and her man then we do. So why is your opinion any more valid. It is each member’s responsibility to sort through the posts here and take what they will and leave the rest.<P>RE: "Misery Loves Company". The people on this site are not out to help you, Cascade. They have but one goal, and that is to perpetuate losing, miserable marriages, at ALL costs. "True Love" is not in their vocabulary. KEEP IT IN YOURS!!! <P>There are many on this who are not miserable at all. We are building loving, caring relationships and marriages with life’s partners whom we love dearly. If anything we are striving to help others build good marriages. “True Love” is indeed in our vocabulary. It is also in our actions as we live it every day of our lives.<P>RE: They hate the likes of people like you.<P>Please do not speak for us and certainly not for me, I do not hate HumbleFish or any other OP or WS or anyone else for that matter. <P>RE: I enjoy your perspective on the misconceptions these people perpetuate regarding the so-called "care-free life" of single people, vs. the so-called "serious" life of married people<P>Don’t you love it when the term “these people” is used? Makes it all seem like some great conspiracy. We are each individuals, acting individually. There is no entity called “these people”.<P>As for the “care-free life” of single people vs the life of married people. Most of us here have a clue about the differences between the life styles. I do believe that most of us were single for at least a few days in our lives. Maybe???? Do you think so??? Na not us!!!! We, being “these people” have no clue about life, about love, about happiness, or anything else for that matter. I’m sure you will be more then glad to enlighten us in these areas.<P>Realitycheck, You have obviously come here with an agenda. Could you please share it with us.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

<BR>You've heard the phrase: "Misery Loves Company". The people on this site are not out to help you, Cascade. They have but one goal, and that is to perpetuate losing, miserable marriages, at ALL costs. "True Love" is not in their vocabulary. KEEP IT IN YOURS!!! <P>Reality Check - oh c'mon - you are way off base here! You clearly have not read all the posts to these individuals nor did you even pay attention to the above responses to your own post. FYI: on one thread HF deleted her original post because it was so negative and she was clearly distraught when she wrote it! If you didn't read that particular post, you have no idea what folks were responding to! <P>Take a good look at this whole site before you decide what the goal of this site is! No one wants anyone to live in misery - no one wants anyone to stay in an unhappy situation. How ridiculous to say that True Love is not in our vocabulary. <P>I visit this site because I want my H and I to have a solid, loving relationship and the people here have been so supportive. If you look past your own personal agenda and negative feelings about this forum, you can see, the positive support that both Cascade and HumbleFish have received.<P>

Realitycheck:<P>I have a response to your post that you may not want to hear. You told Cascadeofwater to "RUN, DON'T WALK, to your soulmate, the Man who makes you so happy."<P>As I said in my response to her, that man may not be all he's cracked up to be. I speak from experience. Just such a man destroyed my marriage, and then promptly broke my X's heart as well. The Divorced/Divorcing board on this site has plenty of people who will tell you that the relationship with the OP is mostly fantasy. We've been there and done that, and very, very few of these "soul-mate" relationships come to anything good. If you'd like a more uplifting message (in response to your "misery loves company" sentiment), go to the Recovery board and read about the people who have realized that their affairs were terrible, hurtful side-trips into an unrealistic fantasyland, and have built stronger, more joyful marriages upon the ashes of their affairs.<P>In addition, I would like to point out that CofW came here of her own free will. If she really, really didn't care to save her marriage, she wouldn't be posting here. Either conciously or unconciously, part of her does not want her marriage to end. We are here to speak to that part. She is free to come and go here as she pleases, but remember: <B>She</B> is the one who came here asking "I love OM, what do I do now?"<P>The very fact that she asked that question, coupled with the fact that she asked it <B>here,</B> speaks volumes about her situation.<BR>

RC (he/she/it?):<P>I take even more umbrage at your second posting. It just goes to show that just when you think someone has stuck a foot in their mouth, you find they have room for their other foot as well. Heck, perhaps all the feet of a pro basketball team.<P>It is very easy here not to be challenged. Don't post. If you take offense, don't post. If you don't like what is on this site, go start your own. We poor, wayward, "these people", having losing, miserable marriages are content with what we have here. Misery loves company indeed, why don't you come join us? I assure you that we will make every endeavor to make you as miserable as you would like to be.<P>Re: Why don't you just depend on your own common sense and good judgment?<P>Did you bother to read the material and posts here? OPs and WSs are in a fog, an alternate reality, they have no common sense and good judgment. To quote the great and immortal WAT: they have been abducted by aliens and their brains scrambled (he is, I understand, writing the full installment for National Enquirer as we post). One reason OPs, in particular, post here is that they are seeking answers because at a fundamental level they know what they have/are doing is wrong.<P>Re: Yet they all jump in AUTOMATICALLY<P>Yes, I've written a MarriageBuilders dot com scanning software that automatically reads my brain and responds to questions and issues like yours. Imagine that, I don't even have to think at all. For $199.95 I will sell you a copy. I have named it MacroFog2001.<P>Re: They have but one goal, and that is to perpetuate losing, miserable marriages, at ALL costs.<P>Yes, and our next goal is to find a mate that suits the goal of perpetuating a long, losing and miserable marriage for you as well. Actually, as you can tell, Steve Harley misnamed this site: It is really called Unhappy Married Losers dot com. NOT!<P>Re: "True Love" is not in their vocabulary.<P>That is correct, there are many words not in our vocabulary. We are totally brain-dead and illerate. Thank God my aforementioned software also types all this stuff out, too. Remember, it can be yours for $199.95 ($239.95 with the Random Spewing Option).<P>Re: I say go with your inner voice and RUN, DON'T WALK, to your soulmate,<P>But not with scissors. We must do these things responsibly. Hey WAT, you there? Is this part of an alien dialog, you think?<P>Re: Don't you know that the hostility recently directed toward you has nothing to do with the fact that maybe you drink too much,<P>I'll drink to that. Cheers. Have you been drinking? If not, you should consider starting. The convolution in this statement and the one prior to it has me wondering: is this a backhanded compliment to Humblefish, or a subtle putdown?<P>Re: but REALLY has to do with the fact that you are the HATED and VILIFIED "Other Woman"<P>Could you enlighten us peons with limited vocabulary? What does vilified mean? Hate is too strong a word, actually, to waste on someone anonymous. In Humblefish's case, she has made valuable contributions to the threads on this site, so I don't see that as an issue here. Now you on the other hand ... it remains to be seen.<P>Re: They hate the likes of people like you.<P>No, we don't hate them. Hate crimes are a federal offense. Heck, we don't even loathe intensely ... at least not those that post here. A certain slug and other creatures, perhaps.<P>Re: perspective on the misconceptions these people perpetuate regarding the so-called "care-free life" of single people, vs. the so-called "serious" life of married people,<P>OK, you can be the serious single person and we will all become the care-free married people. What a deal! Oh, and to further our new-found care-free lifestyle: do you babysit, clean floors, dog messes, pay the mortgage, fix the toilet that the kids just backed up while practicing GI Joe scuba diving? Oh, yes, let's not forget the laundry, windows and etcs. Doctor's appointments for the whole family ... the list goes on.<P>Re: you make some DAMN good points!<P>So do the Los Angeles Lakers.<P>Gee, I hope you took all this with a grain of salt. Perhaps two grains. Migraines? multigrains?<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<BR>p.s. Hey zorweb, how about we meet and have a wild, passionate and single-person type fling? I won't tell my wife if you don't tell your husband.<P>pps: RC--some of this is a vent, some of this is serious. Seeing how you are so all-knowing and astute, I will let you pick out the pertinent parts.<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited June 27, 2001).]

<BR>Pst... SeenTheLight<P>Hey, as serious Miserable Married People we cannot do that. I'll take the couch, you can keep the dog house.<P>(Do you think it'll be a LB if we don't tell our spouses?)<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Z and StL--you two just made my night. Between the fun I had calling OW, being pissed off, sparring with SnL and oops, I emailed OW's friend who helped H and she with A...let her in on a few 'secrets," I think I can sleep tonight.<P>I am rolling on the floor. chuckle. chuckle.<P><BR>Cali

Unfortuneately, reality check sounds like my husband. Could it be. Uses the phrase "these people" and "you people" to put me down all the time. It will be interesting to see how everyone deals with him. He can be a jerk!!!

realitycheck - You and Dennis Rodman, please return to the Mothership - I hear your mother calling.

WAT and guys, OMG you make me laugh. AS for the person who posted this thread. I will refrain, because IT IS NOT WORTH MY TIME. I refuse to let this person have anymore time in my head. BUT<BR>TO RC, THE TERM TRUE LOVE is very well meshed into my life. I married MY TRUE LOVE you moron. We are building a wonderful life together. He is also my soul mate, the man that complestes me. So you see i think i get that statment. HOWEVER, in my opinion, anything that starts off decietful, will always carry a shread of that no matter how it turns out. POINT to that. My father is one of the greatest men i know, and he had an affair, found his true north, in fact is marrying her this year ( which i am happy about ) BUT, there are days that when i look at her 7 years after the fact, i still can see the shadows of THE OTHER WOMAN.<BR>As for COW, MTWL, ANd HF, REALITY CHECK these ladies can speak for themselves. And I am sure that they know that what they right will have a few people on each side of it. So if they cannot handle the heat, then they have the option to not post. If they want different answers, like allpositive ( which is what you seem to think we should all be doing ( what a crock) then they can go to GLORYB.com and get all the " this is the right thing" support they want. This site is to help BUILD a STRONGER marriage, and i am sorry but most of those of us that are the Betrayed Spouse, just do not have it in us to coddle a person when they are putting themselves in that situation, and feel no remorse. HF, feels remorse and she gets both positive and negative feedback.<BR>I have to go with Zorweb here too, what is your story, do you think your robin hood, going to stick up for the weak and try to be a hero?? Why are you in this site?? Are you a OOP or the BP?? Before you start blowing cannons off, read, and geesh relax!!! <BR>OKAY so i found things to say. <BR>Maine<P>------------------<BR>IN the words of BOB the BUILDER!!" WE can fix it, yes we can!!!"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mainemade:<BR>[B]WAT and guys, OMG you make me laugh. AS for the person who posted this thread. I will refrain, because IT IS NOT WORTH MY TIME. I refuse to let this person have anymore time in my head.>>>><P>I agree!<P><<< BUT<BR>TO RC, THE TERM TRUE LOVE is very well meshed into my life. I married MY TRUE LOVE you moron. We are building a wonderful life together. He is also my soul mate, the man that complestes me. So you see i think i get that statment.>>><P>I agree. We have never been happier in my life or relationship. I come here mainly in the hopes that I can share my experiences and offer encouragement to others going through one of the most trying experiences a person can have. However, I hate the word soulmate. It seems very "junior high" and the way it is tossed around during affairs has made it completely devoid of any real meaning in my eyes.<P><<HOWEVER, in my opinion, anything that starts off decietful, will always carry a shread of that no matter how it turns out.>>><P>What? You mean that lies, deception, secrecy and cheating are not good foundations to build a lifelong partnership? ROFL.<P>>>If they want different answers, like allpositive ( which is what you seem to think we should all be doing ( what a crock) then they can go to GLORYB.com and get all the " this is the right thing" support they want. This site is to help BUILD a STRONGER marriage, and i am sorry but most of those of us that are the Betrayed Spouse, just do not have it in us to coddle a person when they are putting themselves in that situation, and feel no remorse. >>><P>Yep, this original post was just more tired TOW speak. Same old same old. If I want to read it (which I generally dont') there are other sites where the same stuff is posted ad nauseum. Yawn....

FAIRYDUST, WOW, i thought you were about to tear me apart.lol. I know that soulmate is OVERUSED, but thankfully in our marriage it has not, nor was it used during the affair of the H. So i can actually use it and feel good about it. I prefer " my true north" though. Or my favorite, He is my lighthouse, the true beacon of light showing me the way to safety and calm waters!! ANd yes i do feel that way about my H, no matter what he has done. All that matters is what he shows me today, and that TOGETHER we aer BUILDING a better MARRIAGE. Thanks for your support of my post. <BR>Maine<P>------------------<BR>IN the words of BOB the BUILDER!!" WE can fix it, yes we can!!!"

Nice advice, realitycheck. <P>Spoken like a true self-absorbed & self-focused, & lonely individual. Very common these days. I feel sorry for anyone who may be foolish enough to depend on you, if there is anyone so blind to your main priorities (self-fulfillment & immediate gratification). <P>That said, I do feel sad for you. Hope you turn things around. <P>Keith

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mainemade:<BR>[B]FAIRYDUST, WOW, i thought you were about to tear me apart.lol. I know that soulmate is OVERUSED, but thankfully in our marriage it has not, nor was it used during the affair of the H. So i can actually use it and feel good about it>>><P>Thank God not in ours either! But I never use it because in WAY too many posts I have seen it's always used. It just seems so meaningless. Kind of like how if you use a curse word over and over it loses it's impact and becomes just an empty word. I've seen so many posts from OW that say something like "I know he is my soulmate even though he and his wife have had 2 babies since we've been together.." Yeah right. <P><<<I prefer " my true north" though. Or my favorite, He is my lighthouse, the true beacon of light showing me the way to safety and calm waters!! ANd yes i do feel that way about my H, no matter what he has done. >>><P>We tend to refer to ourselves as each others "One". And I feel the same way you do. We have weathered an awful storm and the sun was shining brightly on the other side.<P>

Fairydust, I like you hon LOL you are good people too, DANg what was the original thread about HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM LMAO. ONE is a good word too. NIce to see so many that are getting through it with love.<BR>Maine<P>------------------<BR>IN the words of BOB the BUILDER!!" WE can fix it, yes we can!!!"

Could this be HF in drag?