i just feel like venting tonight. so here goes...<BR>when i think back to the beginning of this whole mess i remember all the hurtful things my h told me before he left the house to be with the ow:<P>i don't love you anymore<BR>i'm not in love with you <BR>i don't find you attractive at all<BR>i'm not happy, you don't make me happy<BR>i never felt proud of you being my wife<BR>i don't feel passionate about you but think i can feel this way about other women<BR>there was never any passion between us<BR>i can't treat you well but i know i can treat other women better than the way i've treated you<BR>i've always had doubts about you<BR>i always thought i could do better than you, especially when it came to physical appearance<BR>i have this void in me that you could never fill but i think other women could<BR>i have this small seed inside of me that says i made a mistake in marrying you<BR>i married too young<BR>i felt pressured into getting married (now here's a can of worms to open up!)<BR>i wasn't ready to settle down and have a family when we did<BR>somehow i just don't feel like giving to you, even though you're being nice to me<BR>i just don't feel for you the way a husband should<BR>i feel like i'm living with a roomate<BR>i can't go on lying to myself, living a lie<BR>i feel like i'm trying to fit a mold that's just not me<BR>i don't want to be married to you, i want a divorce<BR>i want my freedom to do whatever i want and not answer to anyone<BR>and my all time favorite...<P>i will never come back to you until i've been with other women!<P>after the affair was out in the open, more sh*t came out of his mouth. here is what he told me he felt about the ow and their relationship:<P>i didn't cheat on you because we separated before i had sex with her (3 days after he left he slept with her, hmmm)<BR>i love her/i'm in love with her<BR>if i do go back to you i will lose something...her<BR>things just happened between us<BR>she makes me happy and fills the void inside of me<BR>who are you to say that she's not the one for me?<BR>there's so much passion between us<BR>i treat her better than i treat you, she doesn't let me take her for granted<BR>we're similar in a lot of ways, we have a lot in common and like doing the same things<BR>i wouldn't be with anyone i didn't trust<BR>i think she has integrity<BR>some couples just have better dynamics than others <BR>we're able to communicate well<BR>she doesn't pull at me<BR>she keeps me in line, which can be a good thing so that she's not taken for granted<BR>she's very affectionate and loving, unlike you<BR>i'm really attracted to her - i love her sensuality, her womanliness<BR>i enjoy her as a person, i have fun with her<BR>she has this certain spunk about her<BR>she has a good heart<P>there are 2 favorite lines from this stage i absolutely love...<P>she fills me up emotionally<BR>she loves me therefore she loves our kids (and she's never even met the kids!)<P>oh, and here's some of the other stuff he's said to me:<P>i don't think i'll ever be satisfied with you physically<BR>i don't think i'll be as attracted to you as i am to her<BR>you can wait til hell freezes over before i make a decision to come back<BR>i'm not going to make a decision unless i absolutely have to<BR>it's important to me that we all get along (h, ow, and me)<BR>if you paid attention to me and spent time with me, i wouldn't have been so vulnerable<BR>i didn't want to tell you i was calling her because i wanted to protect you<BR>i'm just not ready to leave her, i need more time<P>and here's how much time he's had. he left in sept. 2000 and said that by dec. 2000 he'd know for sure. then dec. came and went. in jan. he said that there's a chance he'll have a decision by month's end. a strong possibility by end of feb. and most likely in march. by may he said he would definitely have a decision because our waiting period ends. well folks, we're rolling into july and he's still sitting on the fence. so, do you think that maybe the reason i want to call it quits is because i feel like he's strung me along? sorry for the long post but i just had to get this out.<P>if anyone wants to add lines that their ws gave them, please feel free. <P>

I thought maybe I could add a few, but you seem to have covered every single one I have heard LOL, maybe we should print this out for the WS so they could just save time by sending a list of things to BS lol.<P>

CP,<P>How could you endure all that? I was a WS. I told my W that i didn't love her, i loved the OW and that she was the person in my future when i see it. I know it's just as bad as all the stuff ur WS told u, but that's as far as it went. Whether i felt the other stuff ur WS told you, I couldn't ever tell her that.I can't understand how a person can say those things. Or how u endure it. You must be a strong woman.

CP - your H was using the unabridged script, but all from the script just the same, with the requisite revisionist history.<P>Proof again that they all abducted by the same Mothership.<P>WAT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by painforever:<BR><B>How could you endure all that? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>easy, i was in some stupid fog called love. now i'm getting out. i think it's called divorce. did you get a chance to read my original thread, what is he thinking? since you're a ws, i'd like to get your opinion on that if you don't mind.<P>

Wow! I have to echo the last post. I was also the WS and I never said those things to my ex. The OM never said those things to his ex either. In fact he never said a mean thing to her or about her. The only line I can relate to is the part about being in love with the other person.

confusedpuppy:<P>You've pretty much covered them. <P>I love you, but I'm not in love with you anymore<BR>I still care about you, still want to be friends<BR>Don't want to be married anymore<P>This one was they day after he came over and spent about 7 hours with me.<P>If you have some fantasy that I'm coming back, I'm not<BR>Get over it, get on with your life<P>That next Sat. is when I ran into them and found out why H really left....OW.<P>You see when he left, he said he needed to be ALONE(sure)<BR>needed time to think, was confused (no doubt in my mind).<BR>I had no clue.<P>It's gotten progressively worse and ugly now. We have NO CONTACT, this is on his behalf. H is extremely hateful. Haven't talked to him since Feb., H said don't called him again, and OW screamed on the phone. That is except for court last week (with H, OW, his kids)they put on a real circus performance. The only conversation H had with me was related to court issues to get copies. If you could call it a conversation....LIES, LIES, LIES. The Judge slammed him, I won. <P>I've heard too many lines from H and OW. I just try to put it in the perspective that they are insane....and don't take it personally. Seems like they will say anything, to get at BS, they don't even have any consideration for another human being? Go figure....selfish, self-centered. <P>Vent all you want.....sometimes it helps.<BR>Take care and best wishes.<P>

Confused<P>I've most of it from my wife.<P>But yep, missing two, perhaps because my WS is female?<P><BR>I need to find myself<P>I have something I need to go through. (Yea an affair!)<P><BR>

Oh these sound SO familiar! My H said the following things to me-" I just married you because I at the age where I should marry,I'm not in love with you, I only love HER, we have nothing in common except the kids,I dont like spending time with you, our marriage was 'over in my head' before the A became physical, our marriage is HOPELESS, our kids won't be affected by a divorce, if we divorce it will HELP you become a better person!?, and my all time favorite-- when I asked him why he didnt show me any phsyical affection for 6 mo. he said, 'well, its as if you insisted I go kiss the next door neighbor lady- I dont have any feelings for you and dont know if I can get them back." THIS after 15 yrs of what I thought was a happy marriage and 3 kids together. FOG FOG FOG! I used to cry and be so hurt when he said stuff like that - pretty soon I toughened up and it almost became laughable it was so insane and unlike how he used to be. I even made a list of it. lifeismessy

I'll chime in, altho I KNOW I've posted this stuff before.<P>Lemme see .... ummm:<P>These were said when I knew about the OW, but he didn't know I knew.<P>* I've always been a loner, you know that.<BR>* This seperation is for me, I want to be on my own.<BR>* I want to live like a single person, do what single people do.<BR>* I'll just be a soccer dad and be on my own w/the 2 OCs.<BR>* This isn't like the "LAST" time (OW #1), this time it's about me. (uhh hem, he said that the last time too LOL!)<BR>* I've already gone thru the 12 steps of grieving and I have said good-bye to everything in the house (he must have said THIS a bazillion times)<P>Now these are aft Discovery, meaning he knew I knew, but now he didn't want to leave (on the fence):<P>* A person can keep a promise for only so long (meaning our Marriage Vows)<BR>* Why are you so upset, you knew I was a Rocker when you married me.<BR>* How come you know so much, are you having me followed (LMAO!!!)<BR>* When she calls and harasses you it's just because she's angry that I haven't left you.<BR>* I know we're having the OC come here to stay the week-end, can I bring her 2 other kids too?<BR>* I could make some lucky woman a good husband.<BR>* <as he's pointing to his HEART re: OW> I just feel it HERE (he should have been pointing a bit farther down south LOL!)<BR>* I told her (OW) to stop leaving vile hidious msgs, I told her she was breaking one of my rules. (OMG .. Infidelity RULES?!?!?)<BR>* Don't undress in front of me, it confuses me (huh?)<BR>* Because I haven't left you I'm hurting an entire family of people, as opposed to just hurting you, and it's your fault.<BR>* Why can't you just say okay to everything, just like she does.<BR>* I would try and explain about her and I, but it's too deep for you to understand.<BR>* It's not good for the OCs to see us kiss and hug, they might get the wrong idea.<BR>* Our house is too big and we have so much for just the two of us, this is more of a big family house don't you think? (OMG .. does he want to move her in here???)<P>And these are the blaming insulting ones:<P>* It's your fault I'm not famous.<BR>* It's your fault my back is bad.<BR>* It's your fault I have 2 OCs, you should have let me talk to you more during our first seperation.<BR>* It's your fault I didn't participate in the OCs lives.<BR>* It's your fault I have no money.<BR>* You and I have never accomplished anything, and it's your fault.<BR>* You'd never make a good mother.<BR>* You're an inconvenience, have someone else help you with your cancer treatments<P>Whoa! .. that last one was hard to swallow at that time. But goes to show you how "IN THE FOG" and what a true addiction an affair can become. The sad part is, I don't know that I can forgive, but forgiving IS my goal! <P><BR>This is my ALL TIME Fav!<BR>A Divorce is simply a piece of paper, a formality. C'mon ... we can always get married again. <P><BR>Lv,<BR>Jo<P><BR>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited June 29, 2001).]

My personal favorite:<BR>She makes me happy, therefore I'm a better husband and father.

My all-time favorite from my xW (after confronting her about her affair(s) ... which I found out about from our 20-yo daughter):<P>How could you do this to me?<P>Yep, guess I rented the motel room for them, too. (Hmm ... actually, I guess I did: it was my credit card.)<P>Godspeed to all,<BR>STL

Thought of some more:<P>I'm sorry I left you (Does this make sense? Than why did you?)<P>We just aren't compatible (wonder how we made it 6 years?)<P>It would not be fair to you or me to continue this relationship (NO it's more fair to you and OW)<P>You deserve someone better than me (translation-relieve me of any guilt)<P>I wished things could have turned out different (DUH???...but you wouldn't try...refused any counseling)<P>I know you don't understand, I don't either<P>Maybe it's the things you do or did not do (Huh, that kind of covers it all??)<P>I would have left whether I met her or not (Sure, the <BR>man can't stand to be ALONE)<P>Hope you forgive me and understand me. (I haven't got a clue to fathom understanding HIS actions or hateful words, sure have an affair and treat me like H*LL...I understand)<P>Just don't hate me.<P>Always remember me (Like I could forget?)<P>You didn't have to do what you did....taking my girlfriend to court (Oh, poor thing...threatened to beat me up & came to my door, leaving a threatening note...gee that's all my fault)<P><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited June 27, 2001).]

confusedpuppy,<BR>Don't put yourself through all of that garbage. You know how easy it is for him to blame you and that is exactly what he did. It isn't easy to hear all those negative things and I know how much it hurts. Try to retard his statements with statements he made to you earlier in your relationship that were loving and kind. This will make it very difficult for him to attack you with such hurtful verbage. Besides he still has you listening to all the things that he said were wrong with You. Has he considered that maybe you weren't/aren't so happy with HIM? What do you want? After all these months, do you want the Same man that left or do you want a man who will do what it takes to WIN you back? It sounds like he thinks he can have you anytime he snaps his fingers. Make him wonder. Be sure to make loving deposits and no withdrawals. Show confidence in yourself and your ability to live without him. THis is difficult particularly if we keep rewinding all those bad tapes that run through our memories. I know, I'm facing that even today. For me, I was seperated for 13 months. He "couldn't just tell her it was over." Well, I just couldn't let him be a part of MY LIFE as MY HUSBAND. It was very difficult to do and I took a big chance. But I knew that I still loved him with all my heart and wanted my marriage to work. It would never be this strong had I not had the strength to stand up for MYSELF. I'm 2 years into recovery and our marriage is stonger than I could ever imagined. Keep venting here! Godspeed. <BR>

Lines :<P>Wife:<BR>You made me mad. If you didn't do this I wouldn't have had an affair.<BR>Me:<BR>Other people don't have affairs just because they are mad.<BR>Wife:<BR>Other people are not attractive and so no men want to have an affair with them. I didn;t ask for this guy to come over and have sex with me. He set it up. <BR>Me:<BR>speechless - change topics - because this was not an angry mode discussion anyway and I didn't want to get heated up. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuJu:<BR><B>For me, I was seperated for 13 months. He "couldn't just tell her it was over." Well, I just couldn't let him be a part of MY LIFE as MY HUSBAND. It was very difficult to do and I took a big chance. But I knew that I still loved him with all my heart and wanted my marriage to work. It would never be this strong had I not had the strength to stand up for MYSELF. I'm 2 years into recovery and our marriage is stonger than I could ever imagined. Keep venting here! Godspeed. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Juju, what did you do to turn your situation around. I'm two days short of getting the settlement (I filed last November) and having many different thoughts on whether to give him the papers or not. I'd really like to know your story and what you did.<BR>

Mine is probably common, but it has a unique twist:<P>Her: I want to go to a gay bar with him, and we'll probably go without you the first time since you might be uncomfortable. (he's gay, she's straight, EA only)<P>Me: And is this supposed to help or destroy our marriage.<P>Her: Help, because it will let me find out if anything is there.<P>This was about a month ago. Granted, she's trying a little harder now, especially since he said he wants a work friendship only.

I have read ur ‘what is he thinking?’ thread, I am sorry that u r going through this mess. Although I was a WS, our stories are a little different and I find it hard to identify with his actions. <P>Does he profess his love to you? If he does & gives u clues that he still wants to be with you, I think he might be very confused. Is he or was he happy with OW? From the sound of it, he doesn’t seem to be too happy. Does he maintains relations with you? If he does that and is still seeing OW, its impossible that he loves or respect her either. It also seems that his A with OW is highly psychical rather than emotional. That’s why he keeps you hanging on. Affair aside, would you consider him a responsible dad? One who is close to his children and desperately wants to make them happy? What I am trying to say here is, if you wait long enough for the A to self destruct, chances are he will slowly crawl back to you. <P>But there are also other things to consider. Even if he does come back, there is a possibility that he really won’t change inside. Do you think he would want to really work on the marriage? I have back with W for 5 mths, and I find it hard to honestly wanting it to work. I’ve searched deep inside in many different ways and I can’t find it yet. I look at all the good traits of my W and I feel its not enough. I know what I was walking back into, even if she is what she was 10 years back. He also may be angry and resent the fact that he is back with you? If he can blame you as harshly as he did even before discovery day, what will stop him doing the same later? You feel no love for him but you miss the memories of what it used to be and at times believe u so desperately want it back. Would you endure all the pain over again because you are holding on to those memories?<P>I read your post on the D/D board about if the people ever regret getting a divorce and want to reconcile post divorce. How many people do u know who gets a divorce? I know a few, and most from the WH side. They sometimes just couldn’t do it, most of the time its not because of a particular OW that they wish to marry, they just didn’t want it anymore but stayed until the W couldn’t take it and files on them.<P>I am not sure if this is the respond you’d like to hear, but this is what I feel & is only my opinion. I hope you get what I am trying to say here. If you ever read any of my postings, you wouldn’t think I’d be saying this. I am sitting here in this lifeless marriage waiting for a change. <BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by painforever:<BR><B>Does he profess his love to you? If he does & gives u clues that he still wants to be with you, I think he might be very confused. </B><P>well he says he loves me if you consider that professing his love. he's also said he loves me deeply, he feels whole with me, he's never stopped loving me, blah, blah, blah.<P><BR><B>Is he or was he happy with OW? From the sound of it, he doesn’t seem to be too happy. </B><P>he says he's happy with her (in the sense of her as a person) but when he looks at his life overall, he's not happier being with her (the situation he's in).<P><BR><B>Does he maintains relations with you? If he does that and is still seeing OW, its impossible that he loves or respect her either. It also seems that his A with OW is highly psychical rather than emotional. That’s why he keeps you hanging on. </B> <P>he'd like to maintain a relationship with me, at least a friendship. friends don't hurt each other and betray each other like this. if they did, who would need enemies? i think you're right in that he values the physical aspect of the affair and places an enormous amount of emphasis on it. if that's worth losing your family over, so be it. <P>did you mean that if he's trying to maintain a relationship with the ow and me, he does not respect the ow either?<P><BR><B>Affair aside, would you consider him a responsible dad? One who is close to his children and desperately wants to make them happy? </B><P>no, i wouldn't consider him a good father at this point. he left all the responsibility of raising these kids to me. i offered him 50/50 custody and he refused. he said, at the time, it's good that i'm taking care of the kids because he can't handle responsibility right now. just a few months ago he finally said that being away from the kids and me, he's learned to appreciate us more. there's more to this part with the kids but i'll leave it for now. <P><BR><B>Even if he does come back, there is a possibility that he really won’t change inside. Do you think he would want to really work on the marriage? </B><P><BR>no, because it would involve actually working through a lot issues that he hasn't had to deal with for a very long time. in essence, he would have to face and overcome his inner demons and that is extremely difficult and painful especially for people who don't like conflict. <P><BR><B>He also may be angry and resent the fact that he is back with you? If he can blame you as harshly as he did even before discovery day, what will stop him doing the same later? </B><P>this is what i'm afraid of. if he doesn't grow from this experience - understand why he did this, take ownership for his actions, know what he wants from himself, his expectations in life, etc. - he's doomed to repeat this scenario. if he wants to come back it's not because he was dumped by the ow or because of the kids or because the affair ran its course and he has no one else. it's because i'm the one he wants to be with, the one he loves and can't be without. anything short of that and i don't think it will work. <P><BR><B>Would you endure all the pain over again because you are holding on to those memories?</B><P>off the top, not i wouldn't go through hell and back for memories. <P><B>I read your post on the D/D board about if the people ever regret getting a divorce and want to reconcile post divorce. How many people do u know who gets a divorce? I know a few, and most from the WH side. They sometimes just couldn’t do it, most of the time its not because of a particular OW that they wish to marry, they just didn’t want it anymore but stayed until the W couldn’t take it and files on them.</B><P>in these cases, the cheating spouse was looking for a way out of the marriage. rather than do the honorable thing and divorce before becoming involved with someone else, they opted to have an affair. in the case you mentioned above, these types of spouses don't want to take responsibility for their actions. rather than make the conscious decision to leave, they would rather drive their spouses away so the burden of guilt wouldn't be on their shoulders since their spouse filed the divorce.<P><BR><B>If you ever read any of my postings, you wouldn’t think I’d be saying this. I am sitting here in this lifeless marriage waiting for a change. </B><P>the hint of what you said about waiting for a change tells me that your heart isn't really open to working on your marriage. it seems as though you're being passive in your approach. before i go on speaking out of turn, i'll read your story.<BR>

CP,<P>Yep what I meant was, ur WH do not love or have any respect for OW. He seems to even lack compassion for both of you.<P>if he wants to come back it's not because he was dumped by the ow or because of the kids or because the affair ran its course and he has no one else. it's because i'm the one he wants to be with, the one he loves and can't be without. anything short of that and i don't think it will work. <P>How long are you willing to wait for that to happen? As hard as you think it is, getting him to change his actions (come home, no contact) is easier than trying to change his mind. Unless of course it's an addiction problem.<P>the hint of what you said about waiting for a change tells me that your heart isn't really open to working on your marriage. it seems as though you're being passive in your approach. <P>Like I said, our situation is different but you are right my heart is not 100% in it. I go through the motions with her and come in here to find conviction – but I can’t find it in my heart. Someone just suggested to me a book ‘1001 ways to get romantic’ or something like that , well what can I say. Without love, without desire, without attraction, do you know how uncomfortable and squirmish romance can be? W knows it but if I bring it up, she will insists that things can work out & that I need to try harder. What if she threatens the kids on me? I can’t have that.<BR>