Today is the first day of Plan B and I am already fighting the urge to contact her.<P>I went to OM's trailer last night and spoke with him for about half an hour. I did not yell I did not threaten, I stood there and asked what kind of man he thinks he is. He looked down and said he didn't know. I had my kids with me, I pointed to them and told him, "Do you see those three boys? What do you see? I have a four year old that walks around saying 'OM is bad, OM is bad' Do you know why he says that? Because my six year old has told him that you took away their mother, that it was your fault, Now my six year walks around angry and hurt because he feels his mother abandoned him. I see a two year old that really does know what's going on. All he knows is it's not the same person that wakes him in the morning, not the same person that laughs and giggles and holds him when he's sick." I gave him a copy of a letter my W wrote to the boys Sat. After he read it I asked him what he saw. Again he looked down and said he saw a mother that misses her kids very much. Then he looked at me and said that there was nothing he could do. I told him he has the power to walk away. He could end the suffering my boys and my W were in. I felt the pride starting to build in him and he said he would not let her go. <P>I got in my car and started to drive away. My six year old asked where his mother was and I told him she was inside with OM. He started to cry. I tried to tell him that she still loved him but it didn't help. I turned around and drove back to OM's trailer and told him to go in and tell my W that her son needs her to come and tell him that she loved him. She came out and he jumped into her arms and started crying. She started crying too, and of course so did I, I walked to other side of the car because I did not want my son to see how much this hurts me. She stood there for about half an hour talking to him. He kept begging her to come home and not stay with OM. She would never respond, she kept her head buried in his shoulder and cried. I finally convinced him that we needed to go it was his bed time. She walked to the other doors of the car and told the other boys bye, and again hugged each one and cried. As she was closing the door tears welled up in my sis year olds eyes and he jumped back into her arms. She started crying again and about colapsed. She consoled him and put him in the car.<P>I gave her the Plan B love letter. I told her that talking to OM was the second hardest thing I'd ever done without killing him. And now giving her these pages (4) was the first hardest thing I've ever done. More tears welled in her eyes and she took my head and placed it on her shoulder and told my not to cry, that she still loves me. I fell to my knees in front of her and hugged her again, I told her that I loved her, and then whispered I love you both (meaning the baby). I think this broke her heart as well. I did not mean to but I think I did. She pulled me to my feet and hugged me and told me that she will tell me like she told my six year, everything will be ok, wait and see, everything will be alright. I don't know what this meant but I took it as positive. <P>We stood there for the longest time, I told her that I was not leaving until she walked away, she said she didn't want to and that she couldn't. I said neither can I. The two year old started crying and I turned the radio on for him and played my six year old's new fav. song (walking round in women's underwear, christmas song) This lightened our mood for a minute. She smiled again, hugged me, gave me a kiss on the cheek and walked back to the trailer. I stayed and watched has my W walked out of my life. <P>Now the questions<BR>1. Must I avoid all contact? What if she calls and wants to go to church with me?<BR>2. Do I not write her anymore? What about giving her stuff like the article here about the lessons children learn from affairs?<BR>3. I finally spoke to an attorney (man they are expensive) He suggest that I file for seperation, to prevent her from taking kids and to get support for the boys. She would be served papers. Would this cause her to hate me? Would it push her further into his arms?<P>I'm sorry this has been so long of a post, but I needed to get this off my chest and get some advice.<P>Please brothers and sisters, pray for me and my boys for strength and guidance. And pray for my W that she finds her way home.<p>[This message has been edited by Paul Moyers (edited November 10, 1999).]

Paul:<P>I understand how tough this can be. But I'm here to help you understand the "rules", so most of this is going to be "criticism".<P>You're coming off as very manipulative. You're using your children to manipulate your wife's emotions. You're trying to educate her with articles. You're trying to scare off the OM...<P>Now, I completely understand your motivation. But (IMO), it's wrong. It's misguided. It's not going to help you in the long run.<P>You're lovebusting. You're being very disrespectful. You truly need to change these patterns if you want to have a shot with your wife. You're going to need to be strong---to be honest, and moral, but with compassion and common-sense.<P>I would not contact your wife anymore (but I didn't see the Plan B letter). Definitely no more "education" on how an affair works. She's not stupid. Your education of her tells her that she is stupid. Disrespect.<P>If she calls, you should limit the contact. Let her talk to the kids (encourage it). But you should really limit your contact. Be nice when you do talk with her---no lovebusting---but don't meet her needs. While I was in Plan B, I did meet my wife and the kids for church, but that was very limited contact (and I sometimes feel that even that may have been too much). It's your call---but especially for now, I'd encourage you to not contact her at all.<P>Stay strong. The first couple of weeks are the toughest, but it will get better. And with her pregnant, this situation will (likely) not go on for long. <p>[This message has been edited by K (edited November 10, 1999).]

Paul I am not the one to answer your questions as I am not really into plan B. But I didn't want your post to go unanswered this morning, especially when you are hurting so bad. As I understand it a true plan b is no conatact at all in any form, for no reason except I would think for an emergency involving the children. You are suppose to have a go between for the children. Meaning if she comes to get then you are not there someone eles is or someone else tkae the kid to see her. No talking, no letters, no email nothing. The only way I would think you could do this is to keep your thought focused on the affect that this is the only way you have a chance to get her back for good. Paul my heart goes out to you and so do my prayers. If you want to talk I am here. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

K: I have no problem with criticism. What am I going to do, feel worse? I guess I need someone from the outside to look at the situation and tell me what is going on. It's hard to step outside and think when you are hurting so bad. If my actions towards were manipulative or disrespectful they were not intended that way. I only meant to ease my son pain and possiblt a little of my own.<P>SDS: The complete no contact is going to be rough. I will try and thanks for your support.

Hi Paul,<P>I am so very sorry to hear of your ordeal last night. I can not even begin to imagine the pain that you are feeling. It sounds like this is really affecting your kids terribly. It might be advantagous to get the older ones into counseling. This is something that can scar them for life. I would hate to see that happen to you. You come across as a very caring and compassionate man, H and father. I guess I should consider myself fortunate that there are no children involved in my situation.<P>Plan B is designed for you to not loose anymore love for your W and to protect yourself. You are in a very emotionally raw situation right now. Don't make rash decisions.<P>I would tell you that since you made the huge step to initiate Plan B and handed over the letter, you must avoid all and any contact with your W. Yes, I know easier said than done. I tried this and did not do very well at it. I missed just hearing her voice even though she was not interested in reconsiliation. I would call her to ask her stupid things just to hear her sweet voice. "Hey, Val, how often do I feed the cats again?" Stuff like that. I think it showed her that I could not stick to my guns.<P>With regard to the seperation papers, I lost or even might have closed out my love unit account by filing for divorce. Every situation here is different. Take a few days and figure out what is in your and your childrens best interests in filing for seperation. You MUST protect them and yourself.<P>Paul, take care of yourself, now is the time to be strong for you and the children.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Paul, when I was in your wife's shoes (sort of, I never left my husband) the colder my husband was toward me the more it affected me. I know that may have just been me, but when I was unsure of what he was going to do, the more determined I became to have nothing to do with the other man. Does that make sense? Even when I was pregnant by the OM. I am praying for you, your children and your wife Paul. If you'd like to talk further my e-mail address is TaylorL8@aol.com Lisa

Paul....<P>I have to type a lot slower today...<BR>I have tears welling up so much...<P>I'm so sorry you lost the post from yesterday... I thought I spilled my guts out to you like to I've never done before... and then the post just vanished. Maybe there was a reason for that to happen... So, anyway, I'm going to try to recreate it now...<P>You have now entered a journey that will seem like the darkest days of your life.<P>It isn't that much different than Jesus' path to Calvary. You're going to stumble many times down this path. Jesus fell three times... you are going to fall much more often...<P>There were people who were there to console Jesus down that awful path... there was his mother, Veronica, the women of Jerusalem, and even Simon... Please take us here at this forum to be your consolers. We can't take you out of this path of yours... we can't stop the jeers of the OM... we can't bring light to the confusion of your beloved W... <B>but</B> we can be there in your sorrow... we can talk you through your pain... we can and will pray for you, we can be by your side.<P>It is so hard to let go...Jesus didn't have it easy either... but he eventually did (Father forgive them... they know not what they are doing)... Jesus gave into His Father... and His Father's will...<BR>Yes.. this is a living hell for you.<P>But... after you give into God... think of your Plan B... as if it was like the time of Jesus' death... a time of no contact... yes, everyone is scared of this... the women of Jerusalem, the apostles, even the Roman soldiers... Silence, no contact, an empty void...<P>For 3 days... everyone waited...<BR>In your case, in my case, and for so many here it will be much more than 3 days... more than 3 weeks... more than 3 months... and for (even one more than deserves it) more than unknown numbers of years...<P>But after that time of no contact...<BR>Jesus came back... brought the light back...<BR>brought the truth back... brought salvation back!<P>I'm not saying we will all see the resurrection of our marriages... some (too many) will never see that day. My hope is for everyone to see it... but evil still abounds even after Salvation has been given us.<P>Take this time of your Plan B... and break <B>fully</B> the contact... No writing to her... No church services... Not until she sees the true will of God... Think of how to get yourself through those potholes in the road... If you have to file to protect the boys... you must (I did too!)<P>Be firm, and strong in resolve... If you can't be totally strong now... even if your marriage is not to be saved... let your faith, let your love, let your passion for life (and your kids!!!) grow... Remember Jesus is the new life... He had to die once... to bring out the new life... and has caused to grow in all those who now have passion for His words and teachings. Rededicate yourself to being the best <B>you</B>... the best <B>father</B>... the best <B>lover of mankind</B>... in His eyes. Lofty goals?... maybe... maybe something to bring back you W.<P>Again... reach out to us in your path of troubles... ask... I know you will receive from us... ask... I know you will receive from Him.<P>We'll be by your side Paul Moyers...<BR>And so will HE!<P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

Paul,<P>Geez, I feel for ya'.<P>What K said was right. Before you do anything, you have to stop at look at the reason you are doing it;<BR>1 to express your feelings<BR>Perfectly acceptable as long as you can do it correctly<P>2 to make her feel bad<BR>Don't even go there.<P>3 to try & get her to do or feel something?<BR>Don't manipulate her in any way<P>Try to limit the contact. It will be rough for a while, but (sadly) it gets easier. Remember, this is no longer "about her". It is learning to take care of you & the kids. Getting along without her in any way. Sure, she will visit the kids, but your focus should be YOU, not the interaction you have with her!<P>Don't write her, don't "educate" her. As far as separation, can't help you, but how are you gonna push her "further into his arms"? She's already there. You may need to do it to protect the kids and assets. Talk with the lawyer & see what your options are.<P>Hang on Paul. It's bad, it may get worse, it may get better, it may do nothing, but it'll suck for a while. We're here for ya'.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

This is rough.<P>Medic238: My kids are very much on my mind in all this and I do not want them to suffer. When they suffer I suffer, when they cry I cry. It's not a injury hurt, but a soulful hurt and those are hard for a parent to bare. The Plan B is going to be the hardest thing for me. I just now had to ask if I should pick her up. Geez I'm so weak. Thanks for the thoughts on the papers, your situation is what I fear if I send them.<P>Ltaylor: I think my W just recoils from me even more if I don't respond or help her. She takes a cold shoulder as no love for her. This part of why Plan B is so hard.<P>NSR: You've struck a chord my friend. I see what you are saying about Jesus and the peoples struggle a loss and what they gained. It helps to know and here these words because it strengthens my faith which I am very much in doubt of right now. Tell you something very odd, you tell the story of Christ and the cross...guess what, my church is performing a Christmas play titled "Portraits of Mary" It tells Mary's tale from childhood up to Jesus being hung on the cross. Guess who was unanimously asked to portray Jesus carrying the cross and being hung to die. Good guess, humbling I tell you, very humbling.<P>Chris: Ok, no education, no bad feelings (that's hard, so unintentional), I didn't even know I was being manipulative. I'll work on that too. Did you have to say it may get worse? Can't you quit being honest for once? No more writing, no more contact. But what if she calls me?<P>

Sorry for being honest Paul. NOT!<P>If she calls, then no 45 minute conversations! Short & sweet!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

PAUL,<BR> No wisdom here, just prayers. A lot of what she said to you is encouraging. I'm in AWE of your strenth. It makes my situation look so much easier to deal with (no small children) <BR> I PRAY GOD fixes your marriage before he fixes mine. Maybe we all have a number. Here's mine, move up my friend. Satan is has kept the Lord busy fixing all these marriages. <P>Move up at least one place Paul. <P>PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Paul, <BR> Your story is heartbreaking. I just can't imagine so much heartache coming into the life of one person. If "love" is supposed to be the great prize that everyone seeks at all costs, isn't it ironic that all that this "love" does is cause more heartache and pain? Who in the world is happy in the situation that you have just described? You aren't happy, your children are far from happy without their mom,and even your W isn't happy. So, who's happy? The OM can't even be happy, realizing all that he's done to cause such misery to so many people. Whatever "spell" that the OM has over your W can't last much longer. As you go into Plan B, and with all of the prayers and support that you are getting from so many on this list and most likely from your friends, relatives, etc., at home, then it WILL COME TO PASS that your W will see the colossal error that she is making and she WILL come home to you and to your three small sons. She just can't do otherwise. I hope it's soon, for all of your sakes.<BR>Bright Blessings,<BR>Wealtheow

Paul -- As I read your post, I remembered something that happened with my W, my D and I. . .My W had filed a restraining order against me when she left me. It ttok about a month before we went to court then almost a week before I was allowed to see my D(four hours a week.) The first time was pure hell, and the reaction of my D was much like your sons. I can still hear her cries . . .<P>Every parent has heard their child cry when they are sick, or mad or hurt. When my D cried that day, it was the cry of someone who was having their limbs ripped off.<P>Reading your post brought tears. Remembering that day has me crying again.<P>I can't offer you any wisdom, but I can understand your pain.<P>God bless

Chris: Smart ***! hehe Good deal.<P>Please Help: Your unselfishness in allowing me to move up is admirable. Although I think I may be here with everyone else for a while longer. Thanks for the prayers.<P>Wealtheow: You are new to me. Do not let my situation discourage your hopes and dreams of love. The people here have helped me tremendously, I actually think my W does not like me talking to the people here because they give me strength and I thinks she likes to know that I am completely devoted to her with no other comfort. I am devoted, but there is comfort here. I too do not understand what is going on, but I am realizing that the more I dwell on it the further I fall. Thanks<P>Empty Shell: A child's pain is like no other. It is amazing what such a small innocent person can do to a knowledgable grown adult. From strong and proud they can bring you low and humble, with the bat of an eye or the tone of their voice. What would a parent give to console a hurting child? I'll give all I have and when I've given it all and it's not enough...I'll find some more. Thanks for the ear and understanding.<P>P.S. Everyone, Chris knows I'm kidding.<P><P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.