Dear Orchid, <P>Honey, you are always *ALWAYS* helping everyone, and like Berni said in a earlier post, you're like "GOLD" and I, for one, agree. <P>So ... I know you must have lots of pent up frustration goin on with being in recovery and all, so why don't you just take this thread and vent away. You have our permission. <P>JUST LET IT OUT ... Spew away!<P>Ready .. Set .... GO!<P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 21, 2001).]

Jo,<P>You are inviting me to vent?!??!!? Wow!!! Can't pass up this one!!! <P>Ok here goes. Let's just stick with the recent stuff. H came home after crying about being at OW's house 3 weeks ago yesterday....<P>1. Our 11th anniversary was Saturday, (10th one last year missed because of hm..... oh yea, OW and H tried to blame it on me - duh...), guess who rang and paged at 11:30pm. LuvonRox had me thinking, would I rather have her call or stand outside my window? <P>2. Sunday morning, we are getting ready to go to the Sunday morning Brunch hosted by a local radio station, kind of a fun and different thing. Guess who rings 2 times!!! <P>Can't believe she just wants to say hi, ya know?<P>3. Monday, nothing. hm...... wondered about that, WS says no calls (notice the WS referral - H is losing his status)<P>All previous attempts went unanswered. In fact I gave H the phone twice and he just put it away. Me, I would have opened it and closed it. <P>4. This afternoon we are talking and guess who calls but this time it is from her home phone and she has her # blocked, h thinks it is someone else and answers. 3 minute call, I walk out of the room but not before I hear OW say, "you say your wife is demanding affection". <P>Ok, now this set me off. I don't say a word, I walk out of the room, pacing in the hallway, here H say yes, yes, no, uh ha, no bye.... something like that. Real macho man wouldn't you say? Really puts OW in her place......<P>One of those questions was is it a good time to talk? Answer no...... that's it just a no.<P>H hangs up, now going into depression fast. Is this the devil at work or what? 3 minute call, weak in the knees. I can't take it. I start packing saying I will leave for the night and take son. I can not be in the same house with a person who associates with that witch. H asks me to stay, says he is the one needing affection. I am like yea, but there is a strong force stopping me from being with you....... the devil and mrs. OW...... nope, can't even give affection now. H says his depression is making him sleepy. I say I am angry and need to clean.... Ws says, please go for a drive and calm down. Do you think I am safe on the road? Nope. I stay and I am shaking on the inside. H says he knows I am hurt and he wants to help but he is too weak. He must rest he says. I start to pack 2 bags to go to a hotel. I pick up son from cousins, come home give him a bath. Oh yea, I cooked dinner that went cold. H has to go to work at 9pm, I wake him up at 8:20p he goes back to sleep. Yes, I see the depression but right now I am too angry to care. <P>This isn't recovery this is insane.......Now I don't really have the $$ to be spending on a hotel and will not stay in the Motel sex I mean Motel 6 sex trap place. Don't want to bother any relatives or friends because I am just not good company right now. Ya know!?!??! <P>WS went to work. Son had dinner and bath. Guess what I reheated dinner and the WS ate and even thanked me. Hmmmph... right now even that did not sound good but I was polite and said you're welcome....... Ms Manners would have been proud. Wanted to LB real bad. real bad.....<P>Ws's schedule is a 9:30 to 12:30am run. Next run at 11:30AM. Thinking of letting him stay with son & I go out tonight, I just need to be away from him. WS says that if he leaves, he will just want to come back. But he will not do the one thing I ask, call OW and in clear terms tell her that her calls upset his wife and H does not want his wife upset. H says that is true and he doesn't think OW will object. Object? Do I really care if she accepts or objects? really? NO NO NO!!!!!!! You crazy Loon!!!! Oops that's a bird. I don't care about OW's feelings.... she is not a family member. <P>That is where it is right now. I am typing furiously and trying to reduce my temper. My breathing is regulated and no one is in any danger I am just upset. <P>The real reason I am upset? I am on a crusade to keep OW out of MY life. The anger that wells up when I hear about her<BR>is not healthy. Not in a bad pyscotic sense, nope I save that for her. Not healthy in that my heart starts racing, I get edgy and nervous, I want to clean (well that may be a good thing), I get anxious, can't sit still, etc. Like d/d all over again. Don't want to keep doing that. You know, I don't want the roller coaster ride. I got off before and refuse to step on it again. Hey, I gotta practice what I say right? <P>There is that a good vent? Enough to do a chapter on? The bad piece is that it is fact not fiction, gotta go in the autobiography section of A's, the real facts. <P>Until the next installment, L signing off.<P>L.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited August 21, 2001).]

Orchid,<BR> <BR> I must have missed the thread about you being "Gold" I guess. But that is exactly what you are. To be going through so much and try so hard to help others! It boggles my mind. <P> I won't try to give you any advice except maybe to FORCE a day or two for yourself and do nothing but relax. <P> You are good people in my opinion. Stay sane girl.<P> jd

Hi jdmac1,<P>Oh, the gold comment is not just for me. It was done by a very nice lady but in reality we are all special gems around here. Some of us (like me) could be more valuable but I feel like I am in the raw state right now. <P>For me posting here helps calm my soul. I help where and when I can but it is really helping me also. To write and read what I & others write imbeds it in my mind better so that my recall improves. Believe you me, I need all the help I can get. <P>So under the cloak of posting to many, I have also been the recipient of much support. I encourage all to do the best they can. Positive thoughts inspire positive actions. <P>Oh how I wish my H could see this. Oh well, he is my biggest challenge right now. I think I am failing and as Jo was so astute to notice, sent me here to take my medicine and vent. <P>Thanks for the compliment you have put a smile on my face when there was a big frown. <P>Mahalo,<BR>L. <P>

No doubt about it, there are MANY gems around this place called MB. I don't know where I would be without you folks. Even though I don't post a lot, I do read much. And I have laughed and cried with most.<P> Which is an amazing thing in and of itself. I remember d-day and the first weeks after. I didn't care about anyone or anything. My whole world had crumbled. Then I found this place and found that there are many that feel/felt the same way. To be able to feel all these fine peoples pain, to be able to laugh at some of the things they say....Well I would have bet the world I never would have gotten to that point again.<P> No matter what happens in my life or yours or anyone elses here at MB, there will always be a special place in my heart for you people. This place is a God send.<P> Bless you, and I hope you are feeling better.<P> jd

Well, this morning has not been better, in fact the tides have turned and the winds are blowing again. Too tired to care. Going to start packing up the house. Need to get a new life away from the OW and their mess. H does not want to keep going back and forth between the 2. Ok, I can fix that. One way ticket to OW. No return flight. No place to come back to, that is why I need to move. <P>So I will be busy, ruined anniversary again this year, ruined vacation. Man how much more can a stupid psyco OW and the WS inflict? Need to go and have some kid fun today. I promised that to my child, need to keep my word. If anyone is to retain a measure of happiness it will be the children. <P>What does a negative love bank balance feel like? It hurts like anything you imagined. The pain in the arms and shoulders are hard to bear. The heart is thumping so hard it hurts. Breathing is quick and hyperventilation happens frequently. Don't worry, nothing stupid will happen because I CAN'T afford it. Go figure, in pain wanna just crawl into a hole and die but I CAN'T AFFORD IT. Talk about logic keeping you alive. Man I wish I could be irrational, stupid and in the fog. Sure would make life easier, but no, I have to be so dern logical. What a crazy life. <P>So this is the next installment in this book. Previews in the making, the next one is sure to be a whopper. Get out the tissues, drama unfolding here. <P>L. <BR>

{{{{{{{{ Orchid }}}}}}}}}<P>We are here for you! I'm so sorry you are going through this. You deserve so much happiness. <P>I know you will keep looking up at the One who will guide your way.<P>huggggzzzzzz.....<P>We love you!<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 22, 2001).]

{{{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}}<P>Dayum Girl! I'm hurting for you. <P>You can't keep playing this back and forth game, it's not good for you and your son. Pull yourself out of it. For real this time.<P>It is time for Plan B, it's way over due. A REAL PLAN B too!<P>I can't call you right now, otherwise I would. I'm in meetings most the day. <P>Tell us, what more happened since last night (last post) that has made things worse? I'm so sorry L. I wish I could do something to help.<P>Hugs ...<BR>Jo<P>I'll call you this evening when I arive home.

My dear Dr. Jo,<P>You are one awesome lady. You care so much and I really do love you for that. Thanks a bunch.<P>So what has happened? Well after my post, I told H I needed to be away from him since he was not making any effort to meet my #1 need: Call OW to tell her not to call again. These call greatly upset me (more than I realized), H says he does not want to see me upset (this he says upsets him also). But go figure, is that enough to end it? Nooooooo. Score 1 for the OWs phone call. 3 minutes to kill a marriage, wow she should get an award from the gloryb. folks. <P>I am so focused on that right now, H wanted to talk and talk and talk, I can't handle it. He wanted to hug and hold. While that may have been irristable in the past, I am having a hard time right now. I can't sleep, nightmares of her voice and her face keep hovering over me. I wake up screamning and my heart is racing. <P>With all that going on, I packed my bag and left. Our son was sleeping my bed. H was on the couch. I drove down the street bent on finding a nice by not cheapy hotel. (not the kind they used to go to YUCK). Stopped off to rest in front of our son's school. The police whizzed by on a call, it scared me so I went home. I decided to get my son and take him with me. His bag was already packed. I loaded all up in the car. H got up and said to bring our son back in the house. Ya know, I knew that was the right thing to do but this OW stuff was just way too much for me to handle. I drove to the hotel. They had rooms available, then, then, stupid me logic kicked in. Oh yes, it was there all along, I am angry that I can't be stupid enough to throw away money and stay in the hotel. In this area a decent place to stay is between $150 - 275 per night. Little steep for my budget. Wish I had the $$$ to blow. Oh well, so I went back home put our son to bed, took a shower and went to sleep. No sooner did my head hit the pillow, those dern nightmares started. Had me up shaking and crying, my body went limp and yet I couldn't stay still, my shoulders and arms reeked with pain, I guess I am having anxiety attacks in my sleep. It comes in that initial stage of falling asleep. My breathing got rapid and I couldn't stay still. H heard me and eventually came to calm me down. Been this way for a long time but last night was the worst. Maybe that is why I stay up soo late, to scared to go to sleep. Once I get to a deeper sleep state, I tend to calm down, but it is traumatic. I actually have to be held down to calm down and sleep. <P>Now this morning he wanted to talk. I can't talk, I am too weak to deal with this, yet guess what? Now I want to pack. That cleaning phase is kicking in. Like the nesting phase just before you deliver. Hm...... my nesting was baking, now this is cleaning and packing. I must be mixed up somehow. <P>I told H, I really can't listen to him now. I need to muster all the strength I can to take care of business. H needs to take care of his stuff and get out of my sight or meet my current most important need. Well, no phone call yet, so I guess I keep on packing. <P>See as I said in the previous post, once I move out there will be no place for H to come back to. I need that cushion between us to keep me from giving in. H wants to give me advice on how to pack, maybe go through and sort out good from bad, garage sale stuff, etc. I know that. I said ok. H wants me to do that even if I don't pack to move. Doesn't he get it? He says he does, but he still wants to tell me what to do? Nope, I am under order NOT to TOUCH his things. You know how tempting it is to mess his stuff up? See? I am not usually like that but that is why I need my need met or I want to clean his stuff up (could say it another way but it might give others bad ideas ).<P>So for now, I am going through and cleaning the closets, preparing what needs to be moved. I have made a list and priced out all the furniture and stuff to sell. Did that last night. <P>All over a 3 minute phone call.......<P>L.

Okay L, breathe and calm yourself.<P>You should not be the one to leave. H should leave. You said yourself the budget is tight. If anyone needs to leave, make him do it and this time stay out until he has rid himself of OW for good. Your son needs to know home is a safe place, and if you leave how will your son feel Orchid? You and son need a home.<P>Orchid, there are lots of BS here who have had their WS continue contact with OP once in Recovery, I know it's all the way WRONG, but it happens. I'm hoping one of them will post here with advice. <P>If your H is not ready for POJA regarding the phone calls, pages, contact in general then he is not fully ready for recovery. He needs to be enthusiatic about NO CONTACT. And all that matters are his actions .... his words and promises are meaningless.<P>Please re-think your decision on leaving. You H should be the one to suffer the consequences of his A, not you and your son. <P>Concerned,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 22, 2001).]

Orchid honey,<P>Don't you leave your home. Let him leave. Sounds as if you need some meds. Change your phone numbers. Don't let H have cell phone in the house, if you let him stay. <P>GO TO PLAN B. Stitck to it untill he mets your demands. It sounds as if you can't go much longer.<P>TALK TO STEVE or someone.<P>If you pack up anything, pack up his stuff.<P>I'm here if you need me.<P>sing

Orchid,<P>I wish, I wish, I wish . . . that you were not in this pain. Agree with Resilient, H should be one to go. You are making these decisions to garage sale stuff, I know this is really tough on you - <P>what will make these W's wake up? Why, oh why, is it that they waffle that they want the OP? When most of the time the OP is cra* (sorry about that analogy), and we are decent people?<P>Sorry H won't tell her not to call, and this is affecting you like it is (like it would affect any of us). I am so sorry you are dealing with this pain! love, aftershock<P>I wish I had great words of wisdom for you, I can only wish and pray for you, for things to turn out right.

Orchid,<P>I really hate to see you hurting so much! I really hate what your H is doing to you. It's wrong. It's so wrong! I wish I could say something to make you feel better, but I can't, except to say, this too shall pass.<P>Remember how I felt yesterday? I was ready just to throw in the towel, but I knew it was only a temporary feeling. You do need to Plan B, but he needs to leave, not you. He chose this - he chose the mistakes. He is the one responsible, so he is the one who should suffer in his decision.<P>I am in a position financially where me and my children have to suffer right along with my H, but if you own your house, kick your husband out on his rump. Pack his clothes and have them on the front porch when he comes home. Tell him there is to be no more contact until he contacts the OW in front of you and ends it FOR GOOD!<P>My day has just gone bad, so I am very angry with my H right now. He doesn't know it yet, and hopefully I will be better before I talk to him, but I'll post all this on another thread.<P>You need to take a deep breath and count to 10. Remember, you have to keep your sanity for your child. I know this isn't fair, but who ever said life was? It's very unfair. Remember your faith in God - you have to believe you have already won the victory. That doesn't mean you have to have it flaunted in front of your face before the victory is over. Let him leave, and then when it's time for God to move, he will. Ask God to keep a measure of love in your heart for your H for that day that he wakes up.<P>Love you!<BR>TIG

Oh, and Orchid, we have a saying on the Prayer Requests board that might help you:<P>"Don't give up 5 minutes before the miracle."<P>This is what Lostpup's WW said to him when he told her he was about to give up.<P>Hope this helps!<BR>TIG

Hi Orchid...First let me say how sorry I am that this is still happening to you...<BR>And Second..and I can't say this strongly enough, one of the DUMBEST things I did was leave my home. Granted, I didn't know about the A when I did so...but he felt it was all in his control cause I did that. Of the many things I wish I had done differently, this is one of the biggest. PLEASE don't move your little boy out of his home.

Orchid, You, of all people, do not deserve this pain. I am angry that you have to experience this, even in recovery. Try to maintain your strength, your faith and your love, all of which continue to inspire so many of us every day. Somehow, I feel in in my soul that your H has slipped temporarily. Remember, they are so much weaker than us most of the time. <P>And I agree with everyone else, you stay put. If anyone leaves, it's him that should do the walking. Your and your son's stability must always come first.<P>Bear hugs

My heart goes out to you Orchid,<P> Please take care of you and your child. Make H leave and do not let him come home until he does what others have said. He MUST END CONTACT, and do it in front of you. <P> Believe me I know how hard it is to "force" an issue with our WS. My take on you situation is, 'what have you got to lose'? Meaning if you cannot go on and plan to leave or make him leave then FORCE the issue with H.<P> What is happening to you scares me. I know how all this has effected my own health. And your description of what you are going through is much worse than mine. <P> Take care of yourself and post often. Try to get some sleep. Might check into some sleep aids.<P> jd<P><BR>

Thanks for all your support and encouragement. H is on his way home from work and there is some major discussion coming on. Watch the weather report from the Bay Area. It rained here this morning but I think a storm is brewing.....<P>Trying to keep it light so I can deal with it. H asked to read some stuff from here and an article about how can we save our marriage? <P>I have to go and will post more later. <P>L. <BR>

Good to hear from you, Orchid.<P>H said ... " looking at . . . how to save the marriage".<P>Only from him, his thoughts have to be he wants to save his marriage . . .<P>hope this is the turning point and he makes that decision to No Contact.<P>Best of luck, praying for you, Orchid. love, aftershock