H and i were having a great day yesterday. WE had some extra money so were going to buy things we needed ..shoes, potty seat etc...<BR>We were in the store for about an hour shopping and browsing all of a sudden H says lets leave. .. I wasnt done shopping so i told him so. i continued to pick out shampoo and a book i turned around and H is at the checkout. <BR>ok fine i added the shampoo and book to the cart we checked out and left.<P>I get in the car and H starts yelling at me. I told you i wanted to leave why didnt you listen to me? i said cause iwasnt done getting the stuff we needed. His reply, when i say i want to leave i want to leave right then and there.<BR>i said H we spent 2 hours in staples looking around at stuff you wanted to so whats the big deal?<P>Apparently the XOW ( H calls her STUG Stug meaning <B>ST</B>upid and <B>UG</B>ly) was at the store and H was afraid Id do something..<BR>Hello im 6 months pregnant im not going to beat down some slutty pig and risk injury to my baby cause H is a moron.<P>needless to say we fought about it for a few hours. of course once again it was my fault cause i didnt leave the store fast enough. <BR>I told h that i didnt feel my Nice shopping day should revolve around this OW and i wasnt done shopping and it frankly wasnt fair to me. H said, I just wanted to get out of there. H was going to take me out to dinner, but we came straight home.<P>Is this how my life is going to be? revolving around STUG?<BR>and what the heck is his problem blaming me bacuse she decded to shop at the same store?<BR>

He is not at his most rational right now, and that is not unusual. I know that doen't make it feel any better. <P>No, it should not be like this forever, but a lot of WS are pretty hard to get along with for a while after the affair...how long has it been?

I know you are having a hard time rox, I don't wanna be a pest, but I read this just after a medium level fight with thinker (my wife). We have these on a regular basis, and she complains I am unreasonable (for whatever reason, and it has merit usually), I end up telling her, fine, divorce me and find someone more to your liking. She gets all upset and either crys or gives me the cold shoulder. I think I don't need this crap, and being single looks like a better way to go. So what is the problem exactly? Well, she has one asset, I am compulsively analytical, and try to figure this stuff out even when I am mad as hell about it. What I decided is for now (and maybe forever) I am tired of being argued with, and I refuse to live that way anymore. So when she is plan a'ing and showing me her changes (stopping selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts etc.) I feel a little encouragement...then one of these things happen and I wonder if it is all just a big game, nothing is changing. In the past I would just clam up and walk away from her, to keep the peace, thinking what a jerk I am married to. I told her all this this morning (what I am saying here). The fight we had was over nothing important, but her reaction to something I wanted was wrong, she told me (in so many words) my complaint was not valid....note we did not discuss the complaint, the first words out of her mouth were I was mistaken (defensive stuff in other words). That triggered a violent emotional response in me. From your description you did EXACTLY the same thing with your husband. There is no reason you could not have left the store right then, he even went and got in line..but no, not you, you know you are right, and the heck with how/what your H thinks....well he got the message loud and clear. The best (IMO) way to deal with your ws about this stuff, is to listen to us, don't argue with us, do what we want....and then discuss it later (if possible). Often what is part of our problem with you is we do not feel our feelings count, sounds trivial, and of course you say yes they do..... but, (then you add the but) in milliond different ways you hedge, and make it about you. Ya know rox, maybe he really wasn't worried about you starting something, maybe he just didn't want to see her...ya know? Just cause he says stug do not assume he is done. Frankly I am surprised at your actions, and the subsequent "needless to say fought for 2 hours, ruined day", what is with that, all that was worth more than just saying ok dear, and leaveing the darn store? I don't get it, are you trying to find common ground, and make Love bank deposits, or just trying to beat your husband into submission? It takes two to argue, the only reason your day was ruined is cause that is what you wanted, no one made you do this.<P>Not trying to make you feel bad, your husband may very well be a certifiable jerk, but your behaviour was pretty unhelpful, why don't you just dump him and put him out of his misery.<P>re my wife, and I, we continued albeit a little tense discusing what happened this morning, she seems to understand a little better (and so do I, I am telling her stuff about me I would never have said in the past, knowing she would trash me, but this time she listened). This radical honesty stuff is hard, we have never had productive conversations like this in the past, and is easy to fall back into same old destructive patterns....you gotta try a new way rox, or it is much less likely to work. Try to understand why you respond as you do, not whether you are right or not, and maybe he will follow your example, the more he trusts ypu, the more likely that is. Good luck.<p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited August 25, 2001).]

Ya know - I think if he had told you WHY he wanted to leave and that he didn't want you to have to see her and he didn't want to see her etc etc etc....perhaps that would have helped? It's a knee jerk reaction when someone says "let's do what I want to right now, never mind what you're doing" to hold our ground a bit and get a bit of power back, so I probably would've reacted the same way you did. <P> I think it was unfair that he didn't let you know upfront that she was there, he didn't want to be, and that he wanted to get out of there.

SNL<BR>[QUOTE]Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:<BR><B>I think I don't need this crap, and being single looks like a better way to go. What I decided is for now (and maybe forever) I am tired of being argued with, and I refuse to live that way anymore. So when she is plan a'ing and showing me her changes (stopping selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts etc.) I feel a little encouragement...then one of these things happen and I wonder if it is all just a big game, nothing is changing. </B><P>Sounds to me like your still in a fog or waffling you seem to be more upset that your wife aint kissing your butt than anything else. You friend are the WS reguardless of your reason you messed up and if you wife wasnt meeting your needs at the time YOU should have talked to her rather than found some type of "affection" elsewhere. ive<P><B>There is no reason you could not have left the store right then, he even went and got in line..but no, not you, you know you are right, </B><P>if he had told me WHy he wanted to leave i would have left gladly but instead he snapped at me and said were leaving.<BR>no reason not even being nice about it<P><B>The best (IMO) way to deal with your ws about this stuff, is to listen to us, don't argue with us, do what we want....and then discuss it later (if possible).</B> <P>youre kidding right?..... this goes back to the comment i made about butt kissing.<BR>dont arue with us do what we want..... is this not saying let me continue to play foggies and/or have an affair? So i put my foot down on some issues<P> <B>Ya know rox, maybe he really wasn't worried about you starting something, maybe he just didn't want to see her...ya know? Just cause he says stug do not assume he is done.</B><BR> hes done hes filing harassment charges on her<P> <B>Frankly I am surprised at your actions, and the subsequent "needless to say fought for 2 hours, ruined day", what is with that, </B><P>read my post Everything is my fault<P><B>It takes two to argue, the only reason your day was ruined is cause that is what you wanted, no one made you do this.</B> after he promised me a romantic dinner he goes right home?......... he was driving HE ruined the day <BR><B><BR>Not trying to make you feel bad, your husband may very well be a certifiable jerk, but your behaviour was pretty unhelpful, why don't you just dump him and put him out of his misery.</B> <BR>just because you and my H as WS's take your marriage vows lightly doesnt mean that i do I am FIGHTING for my marriage he had the option to leave... he chose to stay.<P><BR>sorry SnL your post Fogged or waffling which ever it is pi$$ed me off<BR>have a good day<P><BR>alberta<BR><B><BR>Ya know - I think if he had told you WHY he wanted to leave and that he didn't want you to have to see her and he didn't want to see her etc etc etc....perhaps that would have helped?</B><BR>this is exactly what i told him .... which made him come out with the reply that i would beat her up<BR>i however am more mature than that.<BR><B><BR>I think it was unfair that he didn't let you know upfront that she was there, he didn't want to be, and that he wanted to get out of there.<BR></B> i too think things would have gone smoother if he had told me why he wanted to leave<P>have a great day<BR>

alberta you are doing the same thing, making a disrespectful judgement, he didn't need a reason, or to explain himself, he just stated a need. Rox was unwilling to comply until he justified his need, met HER standards. That is where all this crap starts. Now if he was asking for something dangerous, or expensive, different response...but all he said (albeit rudely) was let's leave the store, hardly worth the response rox made. Was he wrong? Sure, but and if the marriage was not dysfunctional, would probably not have happened. But the reality is, it is broken, and what rox did just contibutes to it staying broken. Makes no difference who was right, the question is )as always) do you want to be right...or do you want to be married. Is not leaveing the store in that manner worth being divorced? If so, why wait, do it now. As for her husbands choice of behaviour, well for crying out loud he is in the midst of some portion of an A, and wants to avoid the ow. Trust he had some good reason, and sounds like he did. <p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited August 25, 2001).]

SnL - I was not making a disrespectful judgement at all. I simply said it would have helped if he had said - gotta go this is why. By just insisting they leave, at the expense of the tasks being completed (she told him she wasn't finished shopping for crying out loud!) made it appear that he just wanted to do what he wanted to do, not taking into consideration what Luv needed to do. It appeared selfish. It would have pi$$ed me off, no matter who it was (my mother, my sister, my children, my husband...) You're making this WAY more complicated than it need be, analyzing it WAY to much.<P>He just needed to be open and honest and boy, would that have made things easier.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Alberta (edited August 25, 2001).]

can one ever analyze too much (assuming the truth has not been fully revealed)?...Maybe, I'd have to think about it, but according to MB principles (and someone correct me if I am misunderstanding them) your saying that to me is a disrespectful judgement [and I am not complaining at all, just discussing ]. This stuff gets tricky, I know, but it is starting to make sense to me. Maybe I think it needs to be this way complicated...ya see? Telling me I am wrong (in so many words) is disrespectful. Discussing the issue, providing alternate choices etc. would not be disrespectful, just a civil exchange of ideas. I think this is what people do to each other all the time, and when they are married, leads to disharmony. Finally all feelings of LB are in the eye of the recipient. So even if you (for example) don't think you were disrespectful, if I do, then you are "guilty"....do you agree that is the principle MB espouses?<P>I agree were better ways for him to handle it, and he clearly is guilty of a selfish demand...but how is making disrespectful judgements (which no doubt rox did later) going to help? Isn't she just as wrong? If so, isn't it appropriate she be told that, and that she change her response to a similar event in the future?<P>You mention in your worldview you too would be po'd no matter who did it......may I ask why? Isn't being po'd a choice on your part, and if so, how does that choice enhance your life?<P>

HEy SnL And ALberta,<BR>Dont fight about this........<BR>Everyone is entitled to an opinion and anyone else can retaliate in kind which the 3 of us did. just dont take it to heart these are friendly debates SnL TAKE IT AS SUCH.<P>So hey for one more round .....<P>SnL,<BR>you said<P><B>There is no reason you could not have left the store right then, he even went and got in line..but no, not you, you know you are right, and the heck with how/what your H thinks..</B><P>then you said<BR><B><BR>Was he wrong? Sure, but and if the marriage was not dysfunctional, would probably not have happened. But the reality is, it is broken, and what rox did just contibutes to it staying broken. </B><P>then you said<BR><B>I agree were better ways for him to handle it, and he clearly is guilty of a selfish demand</B><P><BR>so which is it?<P>youre confusing the heck out of me!<P>

We ain't fighting, we is just disgusting...er discussing. I am not in the least perturbed rox so not to worry ((nor do I think alberta is). <P>which is it? Seems clear to me, follow the posts in order, but it not ask me again (at least re my opinion). I will be gone till late, but will check back. I think you are just frustrated lately (and with good reason), so maybe you have had all you can take. But the ccommunication skills the harley's talk about are pretty specific.....anyways thinker and I are fighting today too, lots of LB'ing, so maybe I am taking it out on you (about these very kinds of issues)<p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited August 25, 2001).]

OOOOOkay - so I'm just not going to get into this any further. Points made, points taken...like them or not..c'est tout. <P>Luv - sorry for the debate at your expense, hope you have a better day today, and get that romantic dinner in.<BR>