This was copied from another thread of mine called, "How Long Does Withdrawl Last??" <P>I need feedback, (good or bad) please!!<P>Here's an update on my situation. This is a little long, but will explain my feelings on this issue a little more. <BR>Also, I found out last night that my WS says she is NOT confused. (At least, that is what she claims.) <BR>The following is a letter I wrote to her with the idea of letting her know my feelings w/o being judgemental, controlling, or munipulative. The idea was to allow her to see my point of view w/o LB'ing. Please let me know what you all think about what I said. Do you think this was a LB?<P>(Please note: Everywhere you see a "UPDATE 08/29/01", this was her answer to the question(s).) <P>The names have been changed to protect the guilty:<P>08/28/01<BR>Dear W, <P>Please except this as the only way I can convey my feelings (comfortably) to you w/o you feeling like I am being judgemental, munipulative, or controlling. By writing this down, I can read this over to be sure that I have not said anything that makes you feel this way. I will not lecture you, or try to corner you for any answers to what I am about to say. Please, just listen to what I have to say, and make your own conclusions and/or decisions. I do love you, and don't want to start any fights with you. On the contrary, I think we need to open up friendly lines of communications between each of us. I just want you to know what my feelings are, so you can tell me if I am making more out of this than it really is, or if there is some truth to it. OK?<P>First of all, I am very concerned that your 'rejection' (for lack of a better word) of my love for you is currently getting worse. I notice many 'little things' that lead me to feel this way. (I.E. The way you kiss me in the mornings...You used to give me full body hugs. Now, you seem to make a point of keeping your arms down at your sides, raising only your hands to my face, so that I can't give you a full body hug. You rarely give me any eye contact anymore when I am talking to you. You are always looking in other directions, as if searching for something/someone, etc. I don't know if you realize this or not, but your signal to me feels like: "I just don't want to look at you." (Once again, this is NOT a judgement on you. Just a feeling I get. OK? I hope I'm wrong about this.) <P>When I come up to you on the sofa in the evenings to kiss you, hug you, and gaze (lovingly) into your eyes, you are uncomfortable with this, you look away, it shows, and you will usually ask me something like, "What?" As if you are trying to say, "Please quit trying. I'm not interested in you." (NOT a judgement. Just a feeling I have. Once again, I hope I'm wrong, or I am blowing this out of proportion. Please let me know if I'm wrong. OK?)(UPDATE 08/29/01: She said that she doesn't like being stared at. It makes her uncomfortable. That's all!) <P>I have asked you many times, "What can I do to make you happy?" Your response is always, "I don't know. I don't even know what I'm feeling right now." W, I understand that you are confused right now. (I hope you don't find that judgemental. I don't mean to be, so if you are NOT confused...Please let me know. OK?) (UPDATE 08/29/01: This is where she told me that she is NOT confused. She knows how she feels, and is currently NOT in love w/ me.) But, if you can tell me specific things I can do to make you more comfortable with me, please tell me. OK? (UPDATE 08/29/01: (She said she didn't know what to tell me about what I can do.)<P>One thing you did say to me the other day that gives me some hope was, "BS, please be patient w/ me. I am trying to fall in love." When I asked, "With me?" You said, "Who else am I married to? Yes, you!" This really made me feel good! I really hope you meant what you said. (If not, please tell me so. OK?)<P>W, I will be patient w/ you. I hope this means that you realize that this may take some time, because for you to ask me to be patient with you, means that you are not in any hurry to develope these feelings immediately or else! Is this a correct statement? (UPDATE 08/29/01: She said she is trying to sort out her feelings, and it would be nice to fall in love w/ me, but says there has been no change in her feelings yet. And, says she doesn't know how long she can continue this way.) <P>I know that trust has been a major issue w/ us, and I think we both are working on this very hard! I want you to know that I appreciate all of your efforts. You really made me feel good the other day, when you asked me if I wanted to go w/ you to visit w/ friends of yours! I know it's just a little thing, but I was happy you asked me! (UPDATE 08/29/01: At this point she told me that she really wanted to go by herself, but knew I would panic or freak out with her absence.) <P>W, just the little things you do for me are very much appreciated by me! I know that I have a long way to go in order to earn your love and trust, and I will continue trying to do just that! <P>You mean the world to me, and your happiness is all that I want! Please believe me, when I say this, because I really mean it! I want you to be who you want to be. I want you to feel like you can do anything you want to do, and know that I will support you and validate you in everything you do. <P>I know that I have been difficult to live with, especially lately. And, I know that you are seeing a part of me that you have never seen before. I realize that (probably) a part of you doesn't know how to deal with this new person I've become. I am trying with all that I am to make sure that we have a chance to find a love for each other that neither of us knew exists! A true and deep love that we both can feel proud of! I will promise you that I will never stop trying to show you this love. And, at the same time, I will attempt to NOT smother you. I know this is an issue for you. I'm sorry for your feeling this way, because I really don't mean to smother you. (UPDATE 08/29/01: She had no comment on this.) <P>You know, it's kind of funny, but when you get a "Wake-Up" call like the one you gave me, it shocks you into action! Know what I mean? When you pursue someone (for the fear of loosing their love) you find yourself falling "In Love" with them all over again! I am in love with you, W! For the first time in a long time! I am truly infatuated with you! You are my every thought of every day! I love your looks, your inner beauty, your smell, your clothes, everything about you turns me on! (UPDATE 08/29/01: She had no comment on this.) <P>All I ask of you is to just think for a moment about this................................<P>What if I weren't here tomorrow? How would you feel about what could have been between us today? (UPDATE 08/29/01: She said she didn't know how she would feel, cause I've always been there.) <P>Or, what if I (eventually) gave up on ever being able to earn your love, and left you forever, or found someone else to love? How would that make you feel? (UPDATE: She had no comment on this. She just shrugged her shoulders.) <P>Maybe you don't know the answers to these questions, but (as you know) anything can happen. <P>I am trying to live every day with the thought that there may never be a tomorrow! What would I do if I lost you tomorrow? I would want to know that I did my best to make you happy, and loved you with all of my heart, so that if tomorrow never comes........I'm at peace with myself knowing that I gave of myself and all that I am for someone I love as much as myself. Does this make any sense? Just something to think about...<P>I love you, W.<P>BS<P>(UPDATE 08/29/01: After I had finished reading this letter to her, she really had nothing to say except, "BS, I know how you feel. And, I'm sorry. But, nothing has changed. I don't know what to tell you but that we both are trying. I have seen the change in you. Mainly, in your showing affection towards me. And, It's nice. But, my feelings haven't changed since D-Day. I will continue to try, but I can't make you any promises. OK?" I said, "OK. Can we both just focus on the positive things?" She said, "Isn't that what we have been doing?" I said, "Yes, but haven't we made any progress in the last couple of weeks?" She said, "Yes. Things have been more positive, and I thing we have moved a little forward. But, don't try to over-anylize things! Don't corner me, and ask me if I feel anything yet! OK?" I said, "OK. I love you.") <P>We kissed and hugged each other, and went on w/ our regular evening. <P>Please tell me what you guys think about what I did. Was this the right thing to do, or should I just keep my mouth shut? Thanks for any advice you may offer!<P>HT <P>

Hurt - you have just done what I have been considering doing for a little while now. I am very new at this, and my opinion is just that - there are others who I am sure will have their wisdom to share. My general impression when I read your letter and your W's responses was one of her really feeling cornered. As much as I want answers right now in my situation, this is a process that seems to take a lot of time. Perhaps if you take the feedback you got from her and backed off a bit, you might create more space for her to respond in a way you would like. Just a thought - good luck<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtTired:<BR><B>This was copied from another thread of mine called, "How Long Does Withdrawl Last??" <P>I need feedback, (good or bad) please!!<P>Here's an update on my situation. This is a little long, but will explain my feelings on this issue a little more. <BR>Also, I found out last night that my WS says she is NOT confused. (At least, that is what she claims.) <BR>The following is a letter I wrote to her with the idea of letting her know my feelings w/o being judgemental, controlling, or munipulative. The idea was to allow her to see my point of view w/o LB'ing. Please let me know what you all think about what I said. Do you think this was a LB?<P>(Please note: Everywhere you see a "UPDATE 08/29/01", this was her answer to the question(s).) <P>The names have been changed to protect the guilty:<P>08/28/01<BR>Dear W, <P>Please except this as the only way I can convey my feelings (comfortably) to you w/o you feeling like I am being judgemental, munipulative, or controlling. By writing this down, I can read this over to be sure that I have not said anything that makes you feel this way. I will not lecture you, or try to corner you for any answers to what I am about to say. Please, just listen to what I have to say, and make your own conclusions and/or decisions. I do love you, and don't want to start any fights with you. On the contrary, I think we need to open up friendly lines of communications between each of us. I just want you to know what my feelings are, so you can tell me if I am making more out of this than it really is, or if there is some truth to it. OK?<P>First of all, I am very concerned that your 'rejection' (for lack of a better word) of my love for you is currently getting worse. I notice many 'little things' that lead me to feel this way. (I.E. The way you kiss me in the mornings...You used to give me full body hugs. Now, you seem to make a point of keeping your arms down at your sides, raising only your hands to my face, so that I can't give you a full body hug. You rarely give me any eye contact anymore when I am talking to you. You are always looking in other directions, as if searching for something/someone, etc. I don't know if you realize this or not, but your signal to me feels like: "I just don't want to look at you." (Once again, this is NOT a judgement on you. Just a feeling I get. OK? I hope I'm wrong about this.) <P>When I come up to you on the sofa in the evenings to kiss you, hug you, and gaze (lovingly) into your eyes, you are uncomfortable with this, you look away, it shows, and you will usually ask me something like, "What?" As if you are trying to say, "Please quit trying. I'm not interested in you." (NOT a judgement. Just a feeling I have. Once again, I hope I'm wrong, or I am blowing this out of proportion. Please let me know if I'm wrong. OK?)(UPDATE 08/29/01: She said that she doesn't like being stared at. It makes her uncomfortable. That's all!) <P>I have asked you many times, "What can I do to make you happy?" Your response is always, "I don't know. I don't even know what I'm feeling right now." W, I understand that you are confused right now. (I hope you don't find that judgemental. I don't mean to be, so if you are NOT confused...Please let me know. OK?) (UPDATE 08/29/01: This is where she told me that she is NOT confused. She knows how she feels, and is currently NOT in love w/ me.) But, if you can tell me specific things I can do to make you more comfortable with me, please tell me. OK? (UPDATE 08/29/01: (She said she didn't know what to tell me about what I can do.)<P>One thing you did say to me the other day that gives me some hope was, "BS, please be patient w/ me. I am trying to fall in love." When I asked, "With me?" You said, "Who else am I married to? Yes, you!" This really made me feel good! I really hope you meant what you said. (If not, please tell me so. OK?)<P>W, I will be patient w/ you. I hope this means that you realize that this may take some time, because for you to ask me to be patient with you, means that you are not in any hurry to develope these feelings immediately or else! Is this a correct statement? (UPDATE 08/29/01: She said she is trying to sort out her feelings, and it would be nice to fall in love w/ me, but says there has been no change in her feelings yet. And, says she doesn't know how long she can continue this way.) <P>I know that trust has been a major issue w/ us, and I think we both are working on this very hard! I want you to know that I appreciate all of your efforts. You really made me feel good the other day, when you asked me if I wanted to go w/ you to visit w/ friends of yours! I know it's just a little thing, but I was happy you asked me! (UPDATE 08/29/01: At this point she told me that she really wanted to go by herself, but knew I would panic or freak out with her absence.) <P>W, just the little things you do for me are very much appreciated by me! I know that I have a long way to go in order to earn your love and trust, and I will continue trying to do just that! <P>You mean the world to me, and your happiness is all that I want! Please believe me, when I say this, because I really mean it! I want you to be who you want to be. I want you to feel like you can do anything you want to do, and know that I will support you and validate you in everything you do. <P>I know that I have been difficult to live with, especially lately. And, I know that you are seeing a part of me that you have never seen before. I realize that (probably) a part of you doesn't know how to deal with this new person I've become. I am trying with all that I am to make sure that we have a chance to find a love for each other that neither of us knew exists! A true and deep love that we both can feel proud of! I will promise you that I will never stop trying to show you this love. And, at the same time, I will attempt to NOT smother you. I know this is an issue for you. I'm sorry for your feeling this way, because I really don't mean to smother you. (UPDATE 08/29/01: She had no comment on this.) <P>You know, it's kind of funny, but when you get a "Wake-Up" call like the one you gave me, it shocks you into action! Know what I mean? When you pursue someone (for the fear of loosing their love) you find yourself falling "In Love" with them all over again! I am in love with you, W! For the first time in a long time! I am truly infatuated with you! You are my every thought of every day! I love your looks, your inner beauty, your smell, your clothes, everything about you turns me on! (UPDATE 08/29/01: She had no comment on this.) <P>All I ask of you is to just think for a moment about this................................<P>What if I weren't here tomorrow? How would you feel about what could have been between us today? (UPDATE 08/29/01: She said she didn't know how she would feel, cause I've always been there.) <P>Or, what if I (eventually) gave up on ever being able to earn your love, and left you forever, or found someone else to love? How would that make you feel? (UPDATE: She had no comment on this. She just shrugged her shoulders.) <P>Maybe you don't know the answers to these questions, but (as you know) anything can happen. <P>I am trying to live every day with the thought that there may never be a tomorrow! What would I do if I lost you tomorrow? I would want to know that I did my best to make you happy, and loved you with all of my heart, so that if tomorrow never comes........I'm at peace with myself knowing that I gave of myself and all that I am for someone I love as much as myself. Does this make any sense? Just something to think about...<P>I love you, W.<P>BS<P>(UPDATE 08/29/01: After I had finished reading this letter to her, she really had nothing to say except, "BS, I know how you feel. And, I'm sorry. But, nothing has changed. I don't know what to tell you but that we both are trying. I have seen the change in you. Mainly, in your showing affection towards me. And, It's nice. But, my feelings haven't changed since D-Day. I will continue to try, but I can't make you any promises. OK?" I said, "OK. Can we both just focus on the positive things?" She said, "Isn't that what we have been doing?" I said, "Yes, but haven't we made any progress in the last couple of weeks?" She said, "Yes. Things have been more positive, and I thing we have moved a little forward. But, don't try to over-anylize things! Don't corner me, and ask me if I feel anything yet! OK?" I said, "OK. I love you.") <P>We kissed and hugged each other, and went on w/ our regular evening. <P>Please tell me what you guys think about what I did. Was this the right thing to do, or should I just keep my mouth shut? Thanks for any advice you may offer!<P>HT <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Dear HurtTired,<BR>Boy do you sound like me. I don't want to hurt your feelings, so please take this in the spirit in which it is given. STOP BEING SO NEEDY!!! Please understand that I started out EXACTLY THIS WAY to try to "win" my H back. Your W is feeling very overwhelmed even without all that you said in the letter. This letter sounds a bit manipulative, even though you said that you weren't trying to be that way. Please, Please don't get mad at me for this, because I truly behaved exactly this way when my H first came home. You NEED to back off and try to be patient. Try to just be your W's friend for now. I jumped in with both feet and I ended up almost drowning from it. The last few days I've finally stopped focusing on my H's every move, and I'm feeling MUCH LESS WORRIED about the outcome of things. Can you be loving; YES. Are you being somewhat smothering right now; YES. Was I doing the same thing; YES, YES, YES! All it ended up doing was pushing my H further and further away. Up until the last couple of days I was lucky to get a dry peck on the cheek when he said goodbye in the mornings. In the last few days, since I have stopped focusing on what I'm NOT getting from him, he's actually started giving a little more. Hopefully I haven't totally pissed you off with my candor, but I just want to stop you from making the same mistakes I did. Something my friend said to me the other night hit me over the head like a ton of bricks. She said "Kari, why are you trying so hard to MAKE Scott love you? Does he have to MAKE you love him?" Something to think about. I'm not saying back off totally, just try not to seem so needy. Be who you need to be, try not to LB and hopefully your M will survive. My prayers go out to you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Myownme:<BR><B>Dear HurtTired,<BR>Boy do you sound like me. I don't want to hurt your feelings, so please take this in the spirit in which it is given. STOP BEING SO NEEDY!!! Please understand that I started out EXACTLY THIS WAY to try to "win" my H back. Your W is feeling very overwhelmed even without all that you said in the letter. This letter sounds a bit manipulative, even though you said that you weren't trying to be that way. Please, Please don't get mad at me for this, because I truly behaved exactly this way when my H first came home. You NEED to back off and try to be patient. Try to just be your W's friend for now. I jumped in with both feet and I ended up almost drowning from it. The last few days I've finally stopped focusing on my H's every move, and I'm feeling MUCH LESS WORRIED about the outcome of things. Can you be loving; YES. Are you being somewhat smothering right now; YES. Was I doing the same thing; YES, YES, YES! All it ended up doing was pushing my H further and further away. Up until the last couple of days I was lucky to get a dry peck on the cheek when he said goodbye in the mornings. In the last few days, since I have stopped focusing on what I'm NOT getting from him, he's actually started giving a little more. Hopefully I haven't totally pissed you off with my candor, but I just want to stop you from making the same mistakes I did. Something my friend said to me the other night hit me over the head like a ton of bricks. She said "Kari, why are you trying so hard to MAKE Scott love you? Does he have to MAKE you love him?" Something to think about. I'm not saying back off totally, just try not to seem so needy. Be who you need to be, try not to LB and hopefully your M will survive. My prayers go out to you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Myownme: I do NOT take offense at what you just said to me. It does make perfect sense! I, too, had a friend tell me that I was TRYING TOO HARD! I think this is true in my case. I am trying very hard to show my love and feelings to my W. I do believe that this is probably why she feels smothered. <P>My problem is that I can't seem to get a grip on the "Trust" issue! The fact that she is currently NOT in love w/ me makes me believe that I will loose her to the OM or someone else if the A is truly over! <P>I know what you're thinking....I have no control over what she will ultimately decide to do, but it's still hard! That's why I asked her what she would do if I wasn't here tomorrow. I'm trying to get her to think about that possibility. <P>Thanks for the input. I know I have to give her space, and stop pressuring her. I will do my best!<P>Sable: Thanks for your input as well. It does make sense! <P>God Bless all of you!<P>HT<P>

I agree with Myownme. You have to ease up on your neediness towards your W.<P>I too am the BS, and I know all too well about all of the questions running through your head. But you know what? Your W honestly cannot answer them for you. The answers you got are the truth. She doesn't know what she wants for herself or for you.<P>This is where your plan A efforts help her to want you, and only you. Listen to the little things she tells you (about likes and dislikes), and follow her lead and suggestions (as minor as they may seem). Continue doing nice things for her (without overdoing it, that is just smothering). And keep on working on you.<P>As much as you want to ask her questions, keep them to a bare minimum. Come here and ask instead. Every small or big question you ask about your M will likely turn her away from you. I say that, because that is what my WH told me. Even now that we are in recovery, it is hard for him to deal with it all. Every question I ask regarding his A's, he says, feels like a physical blow to him. Would you want to be around someone who was beating you up all the time? No. Neither would anyone.<P>Writing your letter was a good idea, in order to get your feelings out. But I wouldn't suggest any more like that to your W. An idea that many of us have used at one time or another on here is to write letters to your W sharing your feelings, no matter how positive or negative they are. But DO NOT give them to her. You need to get your feelings out in the open, but right now, she can't handle them. When you're ready, you can tear up your letters or burn them. It's a wonderful closure and release. Come here for strength. We are here to help you whenever we can.<P>Take care,<BR>Karen<BR>

Another word, if I may. I'm not sure if you are a Christian, so don't mean to offend, but I have a song on tape that has helped me tremendously. The chorus is this:<P>I come boldly, TRUSTING ONLY, your redeeming LOVE<BR>Flowing freely, from your side now, your atoning blood<BR>Like a river, like a fountain, like a cleansing flood<BR>I pour out my worship to you, for your redeeming LOVE...<P>Get your LOVE, TRUST, CARE, GRACE, MERCY, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, HAPPINESS all from God. He's there to FILL YOU UP.<P>Trust is the hardest part of this for me. Honestly, I do NOT at this time know if I will ever get past that part of it. It's like you said; no matter HOW much you beg or plead, if they're going to lie, they're going to lie.<P>Ask God for discernment. Get your truth from him, because even if your W does tell you what you want to hear and it IS the truth, you won't believe it right now anyway!!<P>

Hi HT, I agree very much with the others although we, as WS's want so much to hear the "right" answers. We want to hear our WS's tell us that we're the one they've chosen. We want so much for our WS's to be who they were prior to the A. However, generally, this doesn't happen overnight. I would suggest that you let go a little. Live with no expectations of your WS. Although this brings with it fear and uncertainty for you, it does the same for your WS. <P>Don't ask any more questions. Keep it simple and uncomplicated. <P>Good luck!

HurtTired,<P>As a former WS, I found your letter extremely needy and very much manipulative. I know when I came home and then when I actually decided to try to make my marriage work again, I needed some space. Space to feel safe. I had seen changes in my H, but I had to believe them to be true before I could reconnect to him emotionally. I didn't want every kiss or hug or touch analyzed. I just wanted him to accept me for who I am and what I was trying to do now. Not for the past or what happened in our marriage previously.<BR>To give me to time to grieve the loss of the OM which there was. Time to rethink that our marriage would work out because I had convinced myself the it couldn't. And time to just be friends agains and to see if I liked him let along could love him.<P>He gave me all the space I needed. He would kiss me and however I responded, he made me feel that was okay. He would hug me and even if I didn't even respond, he would smile and ask how my day was. We started dating again with no expectations of anything. Just simple fun. <P>And I am happy to tell you that it worked. I love him more now than anytime before. So please be patient. As long as she is at home trying, the chances that she will learn to love you are very great.<BR>my prayers are with you.<BR>Debbie<P>------------------<BR>"I find the great thing in the world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving. To reach the port of heaven, we must sail sometimes with the wind and sometimes against it ---- but we must sail, not drift nor lie at anchor." Oliver Wendall Holmes

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Topie25:<BR><B><BR>I too am the BS, and I know all too well about all of the questions running through your head. But you know what? Your W honestly cannot answer them for you. The answers you got are the truth. She doesn't know what she wants for herself or for you. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Topie: <BR>I think this makes perfect sense. But, What did you do to help them find the truth? Did you just back off, and let them find it all by themselves? You see, I have a problem w/ not knowing how much love to give or not give! What is too much, or not enough?? I don't want to smother her, or make her feel like I'm not interested either. Confusing!! Make sense? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Topie25:<BR><B><BR>Continue doing nice things for her (without overdoing it, that is just smothering). And keep on working on you.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please define working on me. I can't think about me right now. She is in all of my thoughts and prayers, etc. I know that I need to concentrate more on me, but that means not being w/ her. Not sure how to handle that one yet. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Topie25:<BR><B><BR>Writing your letter was a good idea, in order to get your feelings out. But I wouldn't suggest any more like that to your W. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think you're right. It just made her more uncomfortable. Also, I've noticed when we don't discuss the relationship, things are better. It's just difficult to NOT check her "tire pressure" every now and then. Know what I mean? <P>Myownme & Terrified: Thanks for your support! I do trust in the Lord. And, I have asked him to Bless my WS every day! This seems to help.<P>Thanks you all, and God Bless all of you!<P>HT<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>HurtTired,<P>As a former WS, I found your letter extremely needy and very much manipulative. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I understand. I have been told that even though I have said that I'm not being judgemental, it still directs guilt towards my W, and that's munipulative! I will not do this again! <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B><BR>I am happy to tell you that it worked. I love him more now than anytime before. So please be patient. As long as she is at home trying, the chances that she will learn to love you are very great.<BR>my prayers are with you.<BR>Debbie<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks so much for the confidence booster! I needed to hear that! I hope and pray that my W, of 23 years, will find her love for me again, too. <P>Question for you Deb? Did you ever tell your H that you were NEVER "in love" w/ him? Or, did you tell him that you fell out of love with him? My WS says she has NEVER been "in love" w/ me! This scares the sh** out of me! She also still claims that there has NEVER been any A. OM is just a friend. (LOL!) But, maybe she is telling the truth! That really scares me though!<P>Thanks, and God Bless!<P>HT<P>

Dear HT:<P>Generally I agree with the others...but I would add that your WS is feeling very unsure herself right now about her feelings...your job is to confidently display to her that you are her best choice....not through being needy and smothering...but by presenting your best efforts to fulfill her needs and then expressing your confidence that you are capable of taking care of any need she may have....stability and confidence to women is very important...anything else may be considered weakness.<P>Faye

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B><BR>stability and confidence to women is very important...anything else may be considered weakness.<BR>Faye</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Very good point!! This is one of my W's major EN's! She has told me she looks for strength and security in a man. I will have to establish this for her. I know I can be strong for her, but how can I display this strength when I am so wounded right now??<P>HT

Rewriting your history is what they call it when the WS says things like "I was never in love with you." They actually convince themselves (some, not all) that the whole marriage was awful. It must be part of the justification for having the A and/or falling in love with the OP. It's all very common and part of the confusion they are in. Don't take most of what is said during this confusing time personally. I made that same mistake as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Myownme:<BR><B>Rewriting your history is what they call it when the WS says things like "I was never in love with you." They actually convince themselves (some, not all) that the whole marriage was awful. It must be part of the justification for having the A and/or falling in love with the OP. It's all very common and part of the confusion they are in. Don't take most of what is said during this confusing time personally. I made that same mistake as well. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for that piece of info! I've heard it called "Love Amnesia". My problem is that I can't proove the A, but have lots of "If it walks like a duck....."!! Also, I have caught her in many lies! She even denied knowing the OM, until I confronted her w/ the cell phone records. Then, she claimed that she never told me about him, cause I would be jealous! She says he's only a friend! (A friend she called every day, 8 to 10 times a day for 3 months! And, never even spoke his name to me! LOL!)<P>HT <P>

I simply cannot believe this. Your W could be my H. He said EXACTLY the same things. It's an A. No doubt about it. You'll get through this. I promise. You're still breathing, right? You WILL get through this.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Myownme:<BR><B>I simply cannot believe this. Your W could be my H. He said EXACTLY the same things. It's an A. No doubt about it. You'll get through this. I promise. You're still breathing, right? You WILL get through this.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know what's even funnier.....I can't even proove this guy exists! I have a name, but can't even get a PI that can find info on him! Know why?? He's an FBI Agent! No wonder I can't catch them!! <P>You're H isn't an FBI Agent is he?? LOL!<P>HT<P>[This message has been edited by HurtTired (edited August 29, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by HurtTired (edited August 29, 2001).]

Helping your W find the 'truth' is one of the results of your plan A, or if necessary, plan B. You cannot force her into realizing anything she is doing is wrong. No matter what you say to her, she'll defend herself.. usually using the WS script (we never should have married, I was never in love with you, I'm not in love with you, etc). You're exactly right in that you need to back off some in order for her to find the 'truth'. But the backing off is only in terms of the rules of care (no LBing! no disrespectful judgements, no accusations, and no angry outbursts). You must also create a safe environment for her. To show her what marriage to you can be, and should always have been. But again, be careful of smothering.<P>There is always a point where your plan A is working great, and yet you still receive negative response from the WS. That is usually a sign that it's working, and they are upset because they aren't getting justification for their actions.<P>What is too much or not enough? Only you will know that. Work on it gradually, build it up some over time. And if she tells you that it's too much.. then slow down a bit. <P>Working on you is one of the main parts of plan A. You have already started that by not LBing and changing your ways. What kind of man did your W marry when she married you? Were you involved in any other activities? Are you still? If not, then why not? Working on you is giving yourself some space. Kick back and relax now and then. For most of us women on here, that involves shopping, bubble baths, 'girls nights out', etc. Something that REALLY worked well for me to get rid of frustration was moving furniture around. Couches are perfect. They're heavy, and can take a few good beatings without any retort. Consider working on you as being your time to re-energize. You need it. We all do.<P>Now, as far as checking her 'tire pressure' every now and then... grin... cute terminology there... be ever so careful as to how you word things to her. This is a good opportunity to practice your "I" statements. If she's ready to open up to you, she'll do that on her own. For example, telling her, "I really had a great time back when we did --------. That made me feel -------." Memories on her part will come back, and eventually she'll reminisce with you, and in turn, you'll both be depositing love bank units.<P>Karen<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Topie25:<BR><B><BR>Working on you is one of the main parts of plan A. You have already started that by not LBing and changing your ways. What kind of man did your W marry when she married you? Were you involved in any other activities? Are you still? If not, then why not? Working on you is giving yourself some space. Kick back and relax now and then. <BR>Consider working on you as being your time to re-energize. You need it. We all do.<P>Memories on her part will come back, and eventually she'll reminisce with you, and in turn, you'll both be depositing love bank units.<P>Karen<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks, Karen! Makes a lot of sense to me! <P>The working on me is (currently) what I'm having difficulty with. I feel like any time I spend on myself will only allow her the time to get w/ or talk w/ the OM. This really makes it difficult to ignor her, or leave her alone! But, I understamd that if I don't give her some "alone time", I'll be smothering her, and that's a bad LB! Yes?<P>As far as your question about what kind of man did she marry? I can tell you this much....I was very trusting of her, and I was very independent. I did my thing, and she did her thing. The problem started about 2 years ago when my father died, then my Mother became ill and almost died, I had a heart attack this last December and have had 2 surgeries since, wrecked my car, wrecked my motorcycle, and my job has added a tremendous amount of stress on both of us, Other than that, everything has been just fine! LOL!<P>Obviously, this has had an effect on both my WS and myself! I have been very selfish, and co-dependent on my W. Our sex life was almost non-existant for 2 years. I have told my W that I don't blame her if she (indeed) has had an A! I have appologized many times for my bad behavior these last 2 years. I have been so complacent and comfortable w/ the fact that my sweet, shy, submissive W would always be there for me, that I forgot to be there for her! I feel like crap for doing this to her! Yet, I am having a lot of trouble w/ the fact that she didn't say something to me much sooner about her feelings, before the A! <P>Anyways, thanks for letting me vent. And, thanks for your advice! God Bless you!<P>HT <P>

Those were some pretty traumatic events that occurred prior to her A. Many of us on here have had major tragedies as well, and they all contributed to the marriage environment. It's the ones that were beyond our control (like the death of your father) that make it all the more difficult. <P>But that's life. We don't always get what we want, but we still have to deal with it. Some of us do better than others. (in my situation, our almost 4 yr old son passed away suddenly in his sleep a few months before the brunt of this crap hit the fan).<P>Wishing your W would have shared her feelings with you before the A... hah!! Don't we all feel that way! But we obviously didn't know how to do that then. If anything, no matter what the outcome is with your marriage, thanks to MB, you will see these things coming, and you won't allow them to build up. <P>By the sounds of your posts on this thread, you've had a lot of lightbulbs turned on in your head. Isn't it a great feeling when that happens? Take your time now, with what you have learned. We're here for you whenever you need more advice or just need a good vent.<P>Karen<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Topie25:<BR><B><BR>By the sounds of your posts on this thread, you've had a lot of lightbulbs turned on in your head. Isn't it a great feeling when that happens? Take your time now, with what you have learned. We're here for you whenever you need more advice or just need a good vent.<P>Karen</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks, Karen! I really do appreciate everyone's advice, prayers, and comradeship! I WILL take my time. What else do I have? LOL! <P>I still have the question about how to let go of my WS, so I can spend more time on me? Is there any tid-bit of info, or a word I can say to myself that will help me concentrate on the right thing to do in order to let go and do my own thing? (Sorry, long sentence!)<P>Thanks in advance!<P>HT <BR>