Orchid<P>go back & read Bramble's post again. There is good advice in there. <P>prayers<BR>g

Orchid...{{{Hugggz}}}<P>OK...I am pissed now!! This has to stop...tell your H to call her bluff and both go to the doctor together and get the pregnancy test...and give you a copy of the report with the results. Tell him you will pay for the visit!!! At least that way, you will all know the truth for once..and the miscarriage part? Well, if she *miscarries* in response to going to the doc, then its pretty obvious the game she is playing!! If your H needs a reason to leave her, then her lying about another P should do it, otherwise you can then call his bluff too!!<P>You neednt lower yourself to her standards, just getting real proof. And if, in fact she is pregnant, then H can have her. If indeed she is lying, and he still won't leave her, she can have him!! Either way, you either get your H back and start recovery, or you boot him, and start YOUR life over!! Either way, YOU deserve to know the truth and get YOUR life moving forward!! You need to get H away from her, or she is gonna poison his life even more, but then that is his decision.<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Psycho-rabbit-bit** is at it again, huh?<P>Orchid, you've gotten some great advice from others on this thread, all I can offer is a great big hug.<P><<<<<<<<<<<ORCHID>>>>>>>><P>I worry about you. Please write us and let us know how you are doing today.<BR>HbH

How are you today Orchid?<P>You are at the TOP of my prayer list...please print out BrambleRoses' post to you...put it on your fridge!<P>You are too good a person to allow yourself to be treated this way continually....<P>Love,<BR>Cali

Morning all,<P>Thank you for your support. Am I sitting on the pity pot? I hope not. Sure does sound like it. I am very very tired. Still in pain in my arms and shoulders. Setting my personal aches aside, here is the latest.<P>Sing, just to let you know, I did as you instructed. I read Bramble Road's thread, thrice (hm..... 1 extra time just to make sure I am getting it). <P>BR, you are right, I am not as strong as before. I want to be, I am getting very tired of all this and desparately want off. No I do not want to impose more pain on my son and I. Before I go further, let me add the next saga. <P>After my post to you all, H came home and guess who called. OW left a message on his cell asking if he was ok and for him to please call because she was wondering if his W had done more 'damage' to him. Hm..... H did not want to call her back. He was fed up with her blowing things out of proportion. I asked him to please call her back but with me there. <P>He did. The conversation was about 25 minutes. Too long for me but hey, I'm the impatient, wacko wife remember? Anyway, H said, he did not appreciate her call and yelling at me. It was not her business to take matters to the police and that she was blowing it out of porportion. It was an accident and leave it alone. H said he took care of it to his satisfaction and that it was done. He also told her that if she is pregnant she could call once a month(I did not agree to this and will be discussing this with him tonight). Just to let him know of any changes and if there are none, not to call. Also he would not be calling her anymore. She then brought up the abortion option. Now she well knows H's stand on abortion. H feels this was a test on her part. H said if the child is his he will discuss responsibility at that time. She said something about him abandoning her. He said he has a family that he has made a vow to care for and needs to keep his word. He said that his son loves him more than he ever loved his father and now he needs to return that love. So she started saying see you don't love your family..... he stopped her and said, yes but I need to learn how to love them again. <P>Setting boundaries. Yes, definitely needs to be done in any situation. Agreeable boundaries yes. H said last night that he still feels weak and can go either way, to please understand and try to be patient with him. He says he is trying very hard to stay with his family because he knows this is the right decision. Right decision or not, his heart or at least 1/2 of it is still pulling the wrong way. This was an eye opener that I wanted to share with all in recovery, just because they are home doesn't mean their heart is all home. <P>Today, he said he is at home (after doing a morning run) and is going to work getting his life back in order. Will see what that means tonight. <P>Am I afraid of a D? Not as much as I thought. I am more concerned as to why I am reacting so strongly, with my nerves. I know what I should be doing, my body is just revolting. I need to physically get my strength back. My head knows but my body is very tired of what I have put it through. Oh no, physical revolt. Never heard that discussed here before. <P>I spoke to a nice couple last night and she said that I was having different type of anxiety attacks. Her H wanted to shake up my H. I wish he could. Both helped me calm down. <P>I am not shaking as much today but still feel very nervous. I am at work and feel more secure here than at home. (wonder why? - ha ha). <P>So where do I go from here? Again, not sure. I know where I am and know where I need to be. OW must be out of my life. I keep repeating that over and over again. Each episode makes that need more evident. <P>More crazy stories coming? I hope not, but for those you that have been with me since the beginning, you know I have never let you guys down in that dept. Not by choice mind you, I never claimed to be a good writer, these real life incidents just keep coming and coming. Oh yea like that dern bunny..... there we go with the rabbits again! <P>L. <P>BTW BTDT and TrueHeart, as always you come through with keen insight. Thanks for your support, I do appreciate it and will take to heart all your advice. I called H at work this morning and requested that we set agreeable guidelines so we can both make this work. I did let him know this was hard for me also. We will meet tonight and yes I do want proof of her pregnancy. This take my word for it stuff is for the birds. Seeing my situation distress you all out here on the board makes me sad. I do appreciate you all not writing me off as a looney....... LOL!!! <P>What do I still love about this man? I am working on remembering the good times. My son just asked last night that he wished his dad would stay with us forever. Hm..... this little guy sure does know when to lay it on thick... Then as he was getting ready for bed, he asked why was dad on the phone and not talking to mom...... another eye opener. That was all he said, but it sure drove the point home to H. H told our son good night and off he skipped to bed. I wish I could do the same. <P>Again thanks to all. <P>L.

Good morning Orchid,<P>It's not about what's going on with him anymore. It's about you now. The drama he choses to create is having ill effects on you? First and foremost you must protect yourself, Orchid.<P>This continued cry of OC, which has a "history" of never producing an OC should not be drawing you into thinking about how you can support him, it should be telling you that this charade will continue until someone breaks the chain in the interactions in this triangle. Who better than you Orchid? Neither one of them can seem to do it. They at least deserve each other right now, but you Orchid deserve better, much, much better.<P>Run, don't walk away from all of this mess. If he's serious he'll get his ACT together and come prove it to you. If he doesn't, you're 10 steps ahead in your personal recovery, and away from all of the stress which is damaging you.WIN/WIN<P>You are letting OW have way too much power. Don't give her the power to influence YOUR life.Do not speak to her, do not even acknowledge her existence, she isn't worth it. You do not need to think about her, there is nothing you can do about anything she does. Get a restraining order if you have to (I would) and be done with her.<P>Go forward Orchid, don't let anything they do keep you down.<P>

Orchid ~ your H is not emotionally "done" with the OW. I think you are physically reacting to the fact that you are struggling to control many things that you cant control, and create a fantasy of your own, instead of facing up to reality.<P>Acceptance. Your H is not done, even though he is "trying" to choose you.<P>Frankly, "trying" is an excuse to keep fence sitting and to continue what he's always done.<P>My H "tried" and I filed for divorce, remember? His idea of "trying" was to work on his marriage and date on the side.<P>The second time around, the time that he actually moved home, was when he stopped "trying" and DID what he was supposed to do.<P>You disrespect your H and yourself by assuming this is the best that he can do. You are taking away his responsiblity by making him less than an adult capable of making his own choices.<P>I wish you could see clearly what you are doing to yourself and to your H.<P>((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

You know, while I'm thinking about this...<P>Orchid, WHAT ON EARTH are you thinking?<P>Agreeing that he can call OW with you present to discuss this whole situation?<P>I'm beginning to think that your H's fog is rubbing off on you.<P>There's nothing to discuss with her by either of you.<P>If he wants his family, then he needs to cut contact.<P>If she's pregnant, oh well. She can file for CS. She can contact your H through a lawyer.<P>There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for him to be talkign to her - and doing it in front of you, with your agreement is outrageous. How disrespectful of you - and YOU ARE AGREEING TO THIS STUFF!!!<P>Ok, sweetie, you need to step out of the fog! Please go back and re-read what I wrote earlier because I don't think you really connected with it.<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Orchid:<P>Though I have followed your story on this board for a while I haven't replied to many of your posts because you get such good advice from others. Let me say a couple of things.<P>1. I don't know how you have done this. You must be very strong to get to where you are and I admire your "sticking with it" to this point. Someday, perhaps your H will appreciate it.<P>2. You again are getting good advice, especially from those who are telling you to look out for YOU. <P>You said the following:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Orchid:<BR><B><P> This was an eye opener that I wanted to share with all in recovery, just because they are home doesn't mean their heart is all home. <P>L.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>This really struck a chord with me. My W (WS) is home but I sense that her heart hasn't followed her all the way. Don't get me wrong, we are working on it and I remain optimistic, but this is a good thing to know for those who see their spouse coming home or anticipate it. We BSs get so wrapped up in getting them home that we think that's the end of the work. <P>To paraphrase Churchill:<P>"This isn't the end, it is not the beginning of the end, but it may be the end of the beginning."<P>It's important that people keep in mind there is lots of work to be done after they come back.<P><BR>Good luck...stay strong<P>E

Orchid, I am so happy to hear from you. It sounds like you are much stronger today.<P>I have to agree with BR and MTHR on this one, but I am one to talk,huh? I just stopped the seperation papers (my way of getting out)...<P>I think you are doing good and your H is doing alot more positive stuff, and I know what you mean. You see your H trying, so at this point, how the heck do you leave?? BR, MTHR, I'd like to hear your response on this. <P>If you SEE them trying, but it's not necessarily EVERYTHING you need, or what YOU would like (need to let go of that control), how do you get out (or stay out in my case with the seperation - just posted an update if you're interested)?? How do you just turn around and say "NO, it isn't enough", when you see them trying?? I mean, is it really realistic to expect the WS to PROVE it all to you before you accept it and give them another chance? At what point does their TRYING constitute proof? <P>I know, when their actions match their words, but like in Orchid's case, her H is starting to put actions behind his words, not the way she would like it, but he's doing it. So, at what point is it REALLY REAL and constitute proof?? <P>At some point, you have to just take a chance, right??<P>Orchid, you are one special lady. I keep praying for you. OW needs to be struck by lightning or something...<P>I see you getting hurt again, as I do myself, but I don't see what other choices we have...<P>HbH

HBH <P>When you have situations that have become long( more than 4-6 months, IMHO) and complicated(lots of drama and manipulation going on)then the proof of their trying is that OW IS GONE,no connection between him to her whatsoever and aggressive attempts by him to limit any contact she may initiate and make you immediately aware of that contact. WS also needs to have a willingness to be GRACIOUSLY accountable for everything you need to begin to trust him again ie: time and money etc.,<P>

Orchid...<P>I am so sorry. You have always been great at answering post & that shows that you are truly loving & caring person. And like a lot of us BSers we are so nice that people walk all over us. Mostly our H's who take us for granted. Maybe your H will stop & take notice if you get stronger & stop letting him take you for granted. <P>He needs to stop feeling like he owes the "rabbit". He doesn't owe her anything. Too bad if she's upset. She entered into a relationship with a married man, why should she be owed anything for doing such an immoral thing.<P>As far as the pregnancy...when the OW in my situation told my H she was pregnant he said he didn't care. When she said she had an abortion..he said he didn't care. Guess what ? She never played the pregnancy card again.<P>Your H needs to make the OW think he doesn't care. If it's a fake, eventually it won't be if she knows she's getting attention.<P>Cell Phones should be banned.....they are destroying marriages left & right.<P><BR>Stay strong...YOU ARE THE BETTER PERSON {{{{big ones}}}}

Oh come on.....45 years old and pregnant???? Is it the second coming, or what????

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I'm so sorry you're going thru this. You've been one of the first to offer advice and support to me each time I've posted. I don't have any advice except maybe to take some time for yourself. We're virtually strangers but you've got my support and prayers. <P>MS

MTTHR, I understand - thank you. Your explanation does not fit my case, but it does fit Orchid's...<P>Orhid, listen to MTTHR, she gives wonderful advice.<P>HbH

Orchid,<P>thoughts & prayer going your way<P>

Oh Orchid i'm so sorry for you. You certainly do not need this crap. You need to seriously think about yourself. Your health is the most important issue here. Maybe you should take a break for a little while. Sounds like the OW needs to take a little break and check herself into a psych ward. <BR>I don't get it. Have no clue the kind of hold these so called women have on our H's. Enough is enough you have to worry about your health. Orchid please take care of yourself. You are in my thoughts and prayers.<BR>God Bless, <BR>cybil

Orchid, dear Orchid, what are you thinking of? Your H is playing bigtime games with you. If OW is a rabbit, what is he that he KEEPS ON HAVING UNPROTECTED SEX WITH HER???? That's the only way she could keep crying wolf. He's over 45, he must know which end of a condom goes where. And if he's been having unprotected sex with her, what little surprises is he bringing home to you? <P>You are such a good, sweet, intelligent person. You are usually the first to reach out a kind and supportive hand to others. You deserve far better than this irresponsible nitwit who is literally screwing up your life and hurting your child. <P>Remember what the police said? Your H has to get his act together. He has to be home or he has to be out. He is exposing you to pyschological abuse and battery, and perhaps physical harm from this psycho female. Worse than that, he is collaborating with her to hurt you.<P>NO CONTACT! A letter, written in your presence, witnessed by the nearest notary public, and sent by certified mail, by you. A restraining order on her. Record all calls to your phone - check with the police, I think it's legal if it's your own phone and you're being harassed by some crazy Fatal Attraction wannabe. If you're worried about that, just don't answer the phone, let the answering machine pick it up. Get yourself a cell phone and give that number only to close friends and family. If she calls on that, throw your H the hell out and file for divorce because she could only have gotten it from him. <P>Orchid, seriously, you have to protect yourself and your child. Who will take care of him if you're in hospital having a total stress breakdown? <P>

Hi Orchid,<BR>That's not really a "thumbs down" to you, it's a FREE NECK & SHOULDER MASSAGE from me to you! {{{{{RUB}}}}} {{{{{RUB}}}}} {{{{{RUB}}}}} {{{{{DIG}}}}} {{{{{DIG}}}}} {{{{{DIG}}}}}, Ahhhh, there ya go! Did you feel that? Nice huh? Mmmmmmm...<P>*sigh*<P>I hate it when adults' thoughtless acts affect our little ones. They speak truth from their hearts. They call it as they see it. It breaks your heart, but you have to be strong enough to give some strength to them. <P>The only thing I think of to say when my 2-year old OC said to me, "My daddy is nobody!" Was that he has a Father in Heaven who is the best daddy anyone could ever have... I knew my work would be cut out in trying to secure OC in GOD's love... I could never be his father, but I could acquaint him with the Heavenly Father...<P>But they sure do know how to tell it, don't they??? UGH!!! It just rips your heart because you can't change their reality in order to protect them from life. Every tough situation points us toward trusting God with our destiny.<P>Sending a special prayer and {{{{{HUG}}}}} to your boy...<P>As for your wandering, wondering hubby, have you ever heard this saying, "Hurting people hurt people." He's really hurting. He can't be happy seeing you this way. He needed an actual physical injury to offer his attempt to identify with your pain. On the other hand, he is not willing to do what it takes to STOP contributing to your feeling this way, so now it's up to you to say WHEN enough is enough.<P>Being the strong woman you are, something tells me there is more fight inside of you... We'll all have to wait and see now, won't we????????????? Hang in there, woman! <p>[This message has been edited by BINthereDUNthat (edited September 05, 2001).]

Orchid,<P> My prayers are with you. Hope you have a better day today.<P> jd<BR>