To those who don't know the story-H had an affair for almost a year. The OW recently broke it off with him, but she still calls "to see how everyone is doing". H hasn't talked to her in a week and we had the most awful weekend. Okay, now to the update.<P>HE actually initiated a conversation about us last night. He kept saying he was depressed and all I said was I'm here if you want to talk. At first, he said he didn't know why he was depressed and then it went to he didn't know what to say. Finally, he sat down and started talking to me.<P>Basically, it boils down to he still doesn't know what he wants to do (except be with me and continue to have her as his "best friend" <EA> while no sexual contact with her). He realizes that he will eventually have to make a decision, but he said if I forced him right now he would rather be alone. I told him that I would not force it right now, but that he would have to eventually make a decision. I also told him that any more physical affairs (with her or anyone else) would not be acceptable. His main thing with her is he could say anything to her and it wouldn't cause an argument and she could do the same with him. He said he could say he didn't like something and it didn't involve a 2 hour discussion. (Something I need to work on obviously.) He also said he's afraid things will go back to the way they were before if he cuts off all contact with her and I assured him it wouldn't (didn't do much good). It was a pretty long conversation on his end while I mainly listened and added my thoughts and opinions when necessary. I told him I did not in any way agree with him having contact with her and he would never get over her if they have continued contact, but that I would not force him to make a decision right now. He will have to make a decision in the future, but I feel that since he decided to open up to me that we may be making some progress. At least now I know what he found so appealing about her.<P>I'm very proud of myself (pat myself on the back). I remained calm and clear-headed throughout the entire conversation (even while he was singing her praises-gag). At one point, I even told him I'm going to answer your question as a friend and not as your wife-the question was about what if he couldn't ever let go of her. I stuck to my guns though and stood up for myself by saying I would not push RIGHT NOW, but that he would have to decide eventually. He says he wishes it wasn't up to him, but I told him he's the only one that can make this decision. I didn't cut him or her down. I did say some of the reasons I thought they got along so well is that it was a new relationship (dating and putting your best foot forward) and she knew she had a wife and two kids that she was in competition with. He ACTUALLY thought about that for a second and shook his head saying he could see what I was saying. I'm very proud of the fact that I didn't push right now and I didn't jump for joy when he understood what I was saying. I sat there as emotionless as possible discussing it with him.<P>I told him I would not bring up us until it got to the point where he had to make a decision (if he hadn't by then). I said if I get that overwhelming need of mine to talk about us I would either 1)write him a letter and give it to him and leave it up to him to read it or not; 2)write the letter and then tear it up; or 3)get on MB and vent everything here.<P>He has decided this is my outlet now and he has lost his oulet (OW). I told him he could come to me at any time and talk with me if he needed someone to talk to. I also said, "I'm human so I can't give you a 100% guarantee that I won't get upset, but I can give you a 100% guarantee that I will do my best to remain calm and think about it from both sides.<P>I think the fact that she is holding to breaking it off with him and isn't calling is why we had such a bad week. Yesterday I filled as many EN's as I could and literally bit my tongue to keep from LB'ing. I also held to the treating him like an adult. Poor thing had to get up and get his own drinks everytime he wanted one. He started the day by asking me if there were any clean glasses and I just sat on the couch and said no, I haven't washed them yet (instead of my usual jumping up to wash him one). He stood in the kitchen for a little while looking at me waiting and I just sat on the couch. Instead of washing a glass, he just came and sat down. After about 20 minutes, I got up and washed the dishes. I looked at him and said there are some clean glasses now, but instead of getting him a drink I walked back into the living room and sat down. (I'm not a messy housekeeper-we have very few cups and glasses because "I didn't do it" <kids> makes them disappear by either dropping and breaking them or taking them outside to dig in the dirt with.) I also wrote out all the bills for him so he could see what bills we have. (I've always taken care of that and it bothers him that he doesn't even know what bills we have.) He couldn't find anything to get upset about so the depression finally came out.<P>Sorry this is so long, didn't mean for it to be. Thanks for listening though.<P>Anna

Anna, you are doing just great! My WH has a very similar situation - he's back home with me now, but wants to keep OW as a 'friend'. I'm not pushing him to go to no contact with her because a) Her and her husband are expecting their first baby now, b) The EA only went physical the one time, and they had both had too much to drink that night and c) I believe it's better for him to find out himself just how much this is torturing him, and make the decision on his own.<P>I'm confident he'll get there - he had lunch with her last week (with my knowledge of course), and it affected him badly for 3 or 4 days afterwards - eventually he will notice a pattern and decide that it's just not worth it. In the meantime, I'm still Plan A'ing and making myself a warm, welcoming and affectionate wife to come home to at the end of a hard day. In this game, we have to let them learn their own lessons (the hard way usually). Keep up the great work,<P>hugs, Paint.

dumplin,<P>sounds like a big weekend for you, I am glad to hear he is telling you what worked for him and the OW, that is really valuable information, and from my perspective an indication that he might just be willing to let you try and meet that need!! big opportunity. <P>oh and just because i have a particular charge around it this morning i want to say that there is a huge difference between being caring for your husband, and treating him like a child. getting him a glass of water isnt treating him like a child, telling him for the twentieth time to put the dirty glass in the sink is. <P>other examples of treating someone like a child:<P>did you put those envelopes in the mail like i asked/told you to?<P>do you have your keys? wallet? sunglasses? <P>where are you going? (when you dont agree with the route he taking) Turn left here! <P>anything that starts or ends with the words "I Told YOU" or "How many times"<P>I guess i dont want you to confuse being gracious and caring with treating your H like a child. its not being nice that makes him feel like a child it the control and disrespect that does it.<P>and a general warning, expecting him to act all grown up will take some time, he has to literally grow into that role, be patient and giving during this time and you will reap the rewards.<P>------------------<BR>in loving service<BR>chaz

The no one to talk to thingy is a real issue, feeling isolated does push one toward op, and even moreso with men, cause they don't typically have the emotional support assets women do. Why can't he come here? It is annoymous, and he can even post without identifying your circumstances so we won't know he is your H (you would have to assure him you wouln't tell). Tell him it is not a place that beats up ws (well maybe a little) but rather a place where marital issues can be fully heard and discussed regardless of how right or wrong one is. I would also suggest you make this not choosing more of a negotiation, the no pa thing is a given, hardly a concession. Maybe he should have to agree to read the harley books, do questionaires etc. And IMO if he does ever start talking wiht ow, you say ok, but it must be in your presence, and that you will not say a word about it. Would be hard on you, but does help reduce the secrecy which is a good thing.

Paintbox-I am finally getting to where I agree with you. I mentioned to H that he will go through this cycle everytime they have contact (happy, depression, withdrawals). Hopefully, he will begin to see this and see that it is hurting him as much as it is me and her.<P>Chaz-When I told him I would treat him as an adult and not fix his plate for him, I was very pissed. I think he has gotten to where he is taking it for granted though. He actually got to where he would clap his hands (as a joke) and it really began to irritate me. I think the biggest problem I have is feeling like I'm obligated to do these things for him. What I'm hoping is that he can get to the point where he doesn't expect me to do it and appreciates when I do get him some water or something.<P>SNL-I did mention him coming here (and asked him to not read my posts right now) and he said it's not "his thing" (meaning he couldn't use it as an outlet). He also said he wouldn't want to read my posts because he knows right now that it would probably hurt more than help since I come in here to vent about him. I understand the part about my posts not helping right now because some of them have been pretty bad, but I don't understand why he wouldn't want to use this as an outlet. I did tell him there are BS, WS, and OP in here all together and that it's anonymous, but I let it drop because I didn't want him to think I was trying to force him to come to the site.<P>H said that when I ask he does tell me if he's talked to OW. I told him that I didn't want to have to ask-I wanted him to let me know. The reasons I gave him were 1)I don't want you to feel like "I have my head up your butt" (one of his favorite sayings) 2)I don't want you to feel like I'm accusing you of talking to her and 3)I don't think it's my place to ask you-I think you should tell me when you've talked to her. "That will only help build trust if you let me know without me having to ask." He agreed to tell me if she calls and if they talk and I really got him on the head up the butt thing. <P>To all of you, thanks for the help and encouragement.

Okay, Chaz. Now I've had time to digest what you were saying about being gracious and treating someone like a child. I am trying to rein in my desire to say "Don't forget blah, blah, blah". I know that's treating him like a child (now) and I've done it for a long time. It started because he is forgetful (and will admit it) and I would get so irritated when he was supposed to do something and half the time I ended up doing it or having to ask over and over until it was done. Am I right in my thinking?<P>I still think I am taken for granted on being "Donna Reed" though. My H is not handicapped in anyway (well, maybe except the fog surrounding his brain right now) and he is capable of getting up and making his drink as much as I am (sometimes more-have a very clingy 3 year old-LOL). I didn't mind it until it went from asking to demanding and then the clapping just threw it over the edge. He does it all in play, but it infuriates me.<P>To lighten the mood--H told me that clapping his hands at me was his way of saying please so I started (only did this a few times and he quit clapping) patting my butt (implying kiss my butt) and told him that meant "you're welcome".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dumplin:<BR><B>Okay, Chaz. Now I've had time to digest what you were saying about being gracious and treating someone like a child. I am trying to rein in my desire to say "Don't forget blah, blah, blah". I know that's treating him like a child (now) and I've done it for a long time. It started because he is forgetful (and will admit it) and I would get so irritated when he was supposed to do something and half the time I ended up doing it or having to ask over and over until it was done. Am I right in my thinking?</B><P>im not sure what your asking, is it righ to be reminding him all the time?? if thats your question absolutly not.<BR>he is capable of handling the reprecussions of not doing something or forgetting something by constantly reminding him your re-enforcing the behavior. if you can in your head say "hes a grown man and should be able to do this on his own", bite your lip and let him either do it or fall down not doing it. if he forgets to mail the cable bill and it gets cut off, well its not the end of the world and ill bet he doesnt let it happen again! And i know you would never let it happen, and i know you could remind him blah bla bla! but thats not what will create the sense of self in your husband you want. Your mothering him will make him act like your son and not your H.<P><B>I still think I am taken for granted on being "Donna Reed" though. My H is not handicapped in anyway (well, maybe except the fog surrounding his brain right now) and he is capable of getting up and making his drink as much as I am (sometimes more-have a very clingy 3 year old-LOL).</B><P>do what you enjoy doing for him, if you dont enjoy it your doing it for the wrong reason. if it brings you pleasure to get the drink do it. if not your right he has the ability to do it himself.<P><B>I didn't mind it until it went from asking to demanding and then the clapping just threw it over the edge. He does it all in play, but it infuriates me.<P>To lighten the mood--H told me that clapping his hands at me was his way of saying please so I started (only did this a few times and he quit clapping) patting my butt (implying kiss my butt) and told him that meant "you're welcome".</B><P>that was an excellent response i love it! your h has a responsibility to recieve your actions graciously as well if he isnt then you wont find pleasure in doing it. it all comes full circle.<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Sorry not to make myself clearer. I meant am I right in my thinking that action (reminders) is treating him like a child. You already answered the question for me, but I wanted to clarify myself. Thanks for the support.

Hi dumplin I am so proud of you for the way you handled yourself this weekend. I know it's hard. I'm sure you made some deposits into your H's love bank this weekend because he probably thought sooner or later she'll blow up. Good job! Just remember be consistent eat, breath and sleep plan A. Hang in there.<BR>cybil

Thanks Cybil. I haven't been able to come on at home after work because H has started spending more time at home. I know I'm seeing alot of good signs, but I'm still worried. I'm afraid to let my guard down. He says he needs his space to figure everything out (whether to quit talking to her or risk losing his family). I'm giving him his space, but I'm terrified that I'm being taken for a fool and there is something bigger going on.

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