Sigh. I called and told my lawyer to stop the seperation papers (H was supposed to get served today). <P>I don't know why I did it. I feel like such a wuss. My H keeps talking and talking and not DOING the things he says he will... (point in case, he said he would tell/show me where he lived before school started - now he says that he never said that). How can I argue? He says he didn't say it, I say he did, it's a no-win battle.<P>We fought yesterday. Our fights always go like this:<BR>H: What is wrong? Why are you upset?<BR>Me: Same reasons as always.<BR>H: What? You can tell me.<BR>Me: You know what. I am not happy, I am still waiting for you to put actions behind your words.<P>Yada, yada, yada, my H gets upset and says he feels like I am making him do things and that I am controlling him again all because he won't do the no contact letter. He turns it all around and says I am threatening legal action against him and that I'm getting a seperation all because he won't do what I want...<P>(same old complaints). I asked him if he remembered what I said last time he brought this up? No. So, I went over it again, said that I feel XYZ and it's not going away. It would help if he started putting words behind his actions. He doesn't HAVE to do what I suggest, we can try to come up with alternate solutions TOGETHER that will have the same end result. <P>Twist, twist, I'm forcing him to do this horrific thing, blah, blah.<P>So, I guess I stopped the seperation because I am sick of him using that as my supposed "gun to his head". He says he feels like if he doesn't do these things then I don't want him and I'm getting a seperation. Which is sort of true in a way... So, I caved and gave in so that he won't have that as an excuse anymore. <P>Also, I don't want a seperation IF the things my husband says are true. I know, I know, I shouldn't believe him, but it's so hard to continue with the seperation when he's saying all this stuff and I want to believe him so bad.<P>When it all started I wanted a seperation to protect myself and get away from him because he was not committed and I kept getting hurt. But, I'm torn now. On the one hand, I want to see commitment and see that he is serious before I open myself up to get hurt again. But, on the other hand, is it really fair for me to keep going through with the seperation UNTIL my H proves he is serious? It's showing him I have no faith in him at all (which I wonder about) and I think he feels like he may NEVER be able to prove it, so it's a no-win situation. In other words, he may go through all this trouble and I'll get a seperation anyway and he'll get hurt...<P>So, it was probably the wrong thing to do, but I stopped it anyway. I'll try to have faith that my husband will act on his words like he keeps promising, and maybe now that he doesn't have this "gun" held to his head, he may feel more relaxed and not as pressured.<P>I don't have a good feeling about this, but I don't see what other choice I really have. Going through with the seperation isn't really showing my H that I appreciate all he HAS been trying to do, and the things that he HAS done/said.<P>It's like he has his own agenda/plan for doing everything, it's not working, but heaven forbid I talk to him about it, or suggest that we make decisions together. But, he IS trying, I can see that, so I can't just ignore that aspect of it either...<P>He keeps saying by December it will all be over and he will have completely proven to me that we will make it and he is serious. I just say, okay, but doing what we're doing right now isn't going to get us there.<P>Did I let him win again, or am I letting go, and trying to have faith in him? I don't know...<P>The seperation didn't start out as control, but I worry now that it is turning into a way for me to control his actions, that's another reason I stopped it. I no longer feel like I want it, it is just a lifeline for me incase my H is lying again, but I can't rationalize keeping it going just for that. Either I want it or I don't and I shouldn't let what my H doing affect it. I did want it, now I am not sure, so I should stop it if I am not sure...<P>One last thing, tell me if this makes sense: My H says he refuses to write down any of the things we agreed to because he doesn't want me going back to my attorney later on and using it against him. ???? He agreed to do X, and didn't do it, so my lawyer can somehow use it against him... I see absolutely no relevance and think he may just be trying to weasel out of it, but I can't think of how to be rational with this. I mean, after everything he has done, what difference will this make to the judge?<P>I want to end on a positive note. Here are the things my H HAS done that I appreciate, but I don't really feel like they are what I need (he has his reasons why they are better than sliced bread in his book, but they just don't mean that much to me):<BR>-Changed his schedule so that he is actually AT school (where OW is) more. He did this so that he would have LESS free time so that he will always be busy and not have time for her... Sort of makes sense in a weird way to me, I just focus on the AT SCHOOL MORE part of it.<BR>-Says he is going to spend all his free time / nights with me and the kids. I'm okay with this, but I feel like it is a tad overboard. Like he ASSUMES since he thinks I'm controlling that it's exactly what I want, him around all the time so I can see him and watch over him...<BR>-He calls all the time to tell me where he is or where he is going, when he woke up, if he's going out, etc. Again, I'm okay with this, but it's like he's trying to feed into the control again. Enabling me to control him. I didn't ask for these things and don't even feel like I need them, yet he thinks it's the best thing for me... It's nice that he is doing them, but in a way, it's like he's FORCING me to control him w/o me even having a part of it. I can see it now, I "forced" him to call because if he didn't then he just knows I would do Y, so I MADE him because he didn't want Y to happen, even though I didn't even ask for any of it... Just seems like a bad idea to me.<BR>-He SAYS he won't have anything to do with OW and doesn't want her. (I have BIG issues with this - heard similar stuff before, but to him, it's the best thing in the world that he swears to this and I should be all happy and believe him).<P>Do you think that the things he proposes will actually build up my trust, or not over time? What I asked that he do to prove himself is that stuff the Harley's recommend (change email/phone/no contact letter), but he has yet to do these (keeps saying he will do the first two and is thinking about the 3rd but doesn't feel like he needs to hurt OW anymore since it is over anyway).<P>Should I just be happy with what he IS doing and try to focus on that?<P>HbH

I think you need to go back and reread my last post to you last week <P>By stopping the separation, sounds like you really were using it to manipulate and control. You proved him right!<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

hmmmm....all over by december huh? Just in time for her to move out of state.<P>I guess its up to you. Let him do his thing for the next few months and know that you get the "prize" at the end cuz she's leaving.<P>Sounds to me like he's controlling the situation more than you.<P>

<B>H: What? You can tell me.<BR>Me: You know what. I am not happy, I am still waiting for you to put actions behind your words.</B><BR>Give him specifics. “It would make me happy for you to do xyz.“<P><B>I want to see commitment and see that he is serious before I open myself up to get hurt again.</B><BR>How could he show you he is committed (not to an insane asylum )?<P>Tell him, “I cannot force you to do anything. Our marriage is not working and I would like it to. If you did xyz, it would show me you are doing something to improve the situation.” <P><B>Here are the things my H HAS done that I appreciate,</B><BR>Have you told him you appreciate these things?<P>It sounds as if you have done this stuff. When it comes up, don’t change the subject to other issues.<P>When he says, “I changed my schedule, washed the dishes and fed the kids” tell him, “That’s great. Those are good things to do and they really help out. I need for you to do (change email/phone/no contact letter, whatever). These things will help me to see you are committed to repairing the relationship.”<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

sorry chris but I disagree.....<P>He'd turn all of that around to her telling him what to do.<P>Call lawyer. Send papers. Take care of YOU. (do you want him back after he's done with her?)<P>Make your decision and stick to it.<P>

Unfortunately I told orchid last night (in a general discussion about ws) that I didn't believe a word your H said, but I hoped for the best....*sigh*, and here you are right on scheduel, I am sure lexxy is not surprised either, we know how this game is played...you know me by now, I ain't gotch much couth (as in uncouth), he is playing ya like a fiddle, and you are being a wuss. You need to understand why YOU are making the choices you make (your internal diaglog/filters). Feeling like a wuss is part of you inside screaming to be heard by your cognitive processes which hubby can play like a fine fiddle. Listen to your feelings!!! Feelings do count, and you know what to do....hold him ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>This is not about "losing" him, he is already lost, and all you are doing is making sure he stays lost when you enable him. Sucks doesn't it. Consider this surgury, you have to go under the knife if you don't want the cancer to kill ya. No one willingly goes under the knife, you MAKE yourself go under the knife. Makes me think about when I ran out of the dentist office (needed a cavity fixed) when he came at me with the needle...I need it had to be fixed, I just couldn't make myself be brave..... of course I was about 12, how old are you? Serve the darn papers girl, they won't end anything if it is meant to be, but not serving em does mean your chances of a meaningful marriage are reduced.<p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited September 04, 2001).]

Hi Lexxy. I know, I know... He seems to think that as soon as she is gone for good I will be just fine with everything, I'm trying not to read more into it.<P>BR, you make me want to call up my lawyer and start the whole thing all over again. It really bothers me that I have given in to his "words" again, but they SOUND so good. He makes me believe, even though I don't WANT to. The things he does/says makes me NOT want to go through with the seperation, because I WANT to believe him.<P>But, I am scared that he is not serious, and I am scared that I will get hurt again. But, that is no way to live. I can't just keep the seperation alive because it is my lifeline and I am scared.<P>I want to be seperated from that horrible, uncommitted person, I don't want them in my life, but I feel like at SOME point, I have to give him another chance. What if, what if, what if??? That's all that keeps going through my head.<P>IF what he tells me is true, then I don't want to be seperated. The problem is that I don't KNOW, and it's not fair for me to keep the seperation going just because I DON'T KNOW. Is it? How does that give him a chance to prove it??<P>I mean, you can think that I did the seperation just to get him to come around or force him to choose me, but I know in my heart that I was okay with either decision he made. I was done with the fence sitting and if he goes back, then I'm heading right over to the lawyers office again. I AM DONE. No more fence sitting.<P>This was the most important thing out of my last post:<BR>"The seperation didn't start out as control, but I worry now that it is turning into a way for me to control his actions, that's another reason I stopped it. I no longer feel like I want it, it is just a lifeline for me incase my H is lying again, but I can't rationalize keeping it going just for that. Either I want it or I don't and I shouldn't let what my H doing affect it. I did want it, now I am not sure, so I should stop it if I am not sure..."<P>As soon as I FELT my actions turning into controlling ones, I put a stop to them. Isn't that the way it should be???<P>Thanks BR.<BR>HbH

Be careful.<P>Have you considered that he may be "trying" the bare minimum to keep you around until his time is up with OM?<P>Are you using the separation to control him? Maybe. So what?<P>Are you ever going to be able to reconcile if he doesn't outright choose you now? Are you gonna feel ok with getting him back because she left?<P>Maybe its ok to force him to choose you now. Whats he losing by doing that? A couple months with her? I guess I'd want to know if he'd risk a life with you over a couple months with her. <P>If I were in your situation, I'd force the issue right now. If I were to consider a future with him I would want to know it wasn't by default.<P>And if he's not willing to protect your feelings vs. a couple months with her -- I'd want to know that too.<P>

Hurt ~<P>If you reread my last post to you on the other thread, then you know that I think that YOU are not emotionally ready for separation yet.<P>BUT having said that, you need to think really long and hard about something. I haven't read one single WS reply to you with: "Hang in there Hurt, he's coming around!" Instead, all of them are basically telling you what is obvious to us, your H isn't trying, he's playing games.<P>As I tried to point out to Orchid earlier, theres a difference btwn trying and doing.<P>He's not doing.<P>You are both still trying to control each other.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<B>sorry chris but I disagree.....</B><BR>It’s not a matter of us disagreeing or not. It is a matter of following MB principles.<P><B>He'd turn all of that around to her telling him what to do.</B><BR>Very likely. Which is why you tell him he will do what he wants but IN ORDER TO SHOW HER he is doing something, he needs to do xyz.<P><B>(do you want him back after he's done with her?)</B><BR>If she knew for sure, she wouldn’t need to post here.<P><B>Make your decision and stick to it.</B><BR>But make sure you it is a decision you are satisfied with NOT a decision you will be forced to live with. Don’t burn your bridges before you have even crossed them.<P>HbH,<BR>Don’t use the threat of separation as something to control him or get something you want. You use it to help you legally if he is going to screw you over. If you don’t want a separation, don’t get one.<P>If the pain is too much for you to take and he is waffling, then Plan B. But this must be only AFTER a model Plan A. You CAN do Plan B without legal separation.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hurt ~ I want you to go back and read your recent posts.<P>How many of the following words do you see?<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>Why...? <BR><LI>What if...? <BR><LI>Yes, but...<BR><LI>I can't...<BR><LI>I'll try...<BR><LI>Why...?<BR></UL><P>The main reason most of us ask why is because we believe with a little more knowledge and a few more details, we can "control" the situation and or person. Asking "why" only wastes our energy - it rarely changes anything.<P><B>What if…?</B><P>What if's keep us from living in the reality of the moment and also keep us from admitting we are powerless. When we are in the past with the "whys" and the future with the "what ifs" we loose today. Today is the only day we have. <P><B>Yes, but…</B><P>When we "yes but…" we are not listening to what others have to say. We are being self centered and self absorbed, and in essence saying we are so unique that what has worked for countless others will not work in our situation. Each time we "yes but" we are cooking up excuses inside our heads and our minds are closed. <P><B>I can't...</B><P>This is our biggest lie to ourselves. The truth is not that we can't, but that we won't. It is where we let fear have control over our lives. <P><B>I'll try...</B><P>The saying, "to try is to lie" refers to how easily we fall into making excuses. If we say, "I'll try" we lack commitment. "I'll try" allows us to bide our time while looking for an excuse not to do whatever we have said we'll try. <BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Hi all. Boy, I'm popular today. Thank you all for your support.<P>Lexxy - Hmmm... I think you actually almost agree with what I did. I seperated because my H was fence sitting and couldn't commit or decide what he wanted. It was about me, it was what I wanted, I refused to live in limbo anymore. My choice to stop the paperwork comes now that he has said "I am committed to you." He actually said these words (among others). We talked about it at length, and it seems so genuine this time...<P>But, I am scared to believe. <P>I have to go, H is here to watch the kids while I go shopping. <P>Will write more later.<BR>HbH<P>

Okay, hopefully I can finish now (H is in other room doing homework - part of spending all his FREE time here with us...)<P>Lexxy - As I was saying. I did force the issue. I was not okay with him having his fun with OW for the next 4 months and then him expecting me to take him back in January. I'm still not. Last contact was about 6 weeks ago (that I know of - always got to throw that in there y'no). And, he ACTS like there has been no contact (based on what I read from other WS's and his past behavior, but I never really know). No, Lexxy, I could not take him back if he did this to me, I made that perfectly clear to him. If he wants her, go have her and leave me the he** alone.<P>SnL - Yeah, I know I should serve the papers. But IT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT. Not anymore. At this point in my life, I AM using the seperation as a lifeline, much like the WS keeps OW on the side as a lifeline. It wasn't my original intent, but ALOT has happened these past two weeks and NOW that is what it's about. How can I ask my H to do more for me and do the things I need to prove that he is serious when I'm not even really acknowledging the effort he IS making (by keeping the seperation looming over our heads)?? He is REALLY trying, I can feel it, it just aggravates the he** out of me because he won't do what I would like, or what I suggest, but it's obvious he's trying. He's just doing the THINGS HE thinks are best or most important for me (as evidenced by the fact that he sees me as wanting to be controlling, so therefore he's with me every free moment and calling to "check-in" all the time - controlling things). These are the things that HE thinks are best for me, but they're not what I want. He just won't listen to me...<P>Counseling should help that when we start next week (another thing that helps with my decision to hold off on seperation).<P>BR - I see what you mean. But, I'm sorry, ready or not, I was not staying in that god-awful limboland place anymore, and I'm not going back. I'm sorry, I won't do it, not again. And I'm not about to do Plan B #4, seperation was the only other option as I saw it.<P>Now that I'm not in limbo (the whole purpose for the seperation in the first place), I guess it just feels wrong to continue with the seperation as it stands. I can't start using it to make him do the things that I feel he should be doing, and THAT is what was starting to happen. So, I needed to stop it because it is no longer what I want. I don't feel like I am in limbo anymore, so to hold on to that seperation lifeline is just blocking our recovery.<P>I liked your post on the different QUESTIONS... Made me think alot. Yes, he is still trying to control me alot instead of doing. But there's nothing I can do about that, just let him go do his thing. But does this mean I just ignore him while he's doing this? I can't very well re-start the paperwork, not after I made the big step forward to try and show him that I was going to start to believe in him again and especially after it's no longer what I want...<P>Chris - thank you for your support. I don't know if you were following my story, but the others here are just looking out for me. The answers you provided me with are PERFECT for the typical marriage, and maybe they will eventually work for my marriage as well, but only time will tell. Both my husband and I have alot to learn. My H is one to have severe mood swings that are very difficult to live with. I have come to realize that this is the WAY he IS, in all aspects. If he loves you and cares about you, he is the best person you've ever met. But get under his skin, or if he starts to resent you, and your his biggest enemy. This pertains to both his mood swings and him in general...<P>My husband was one of the best men I've ever met up until about 3 years ago (7 years of this). Then the resentment started and his attitude towards me changed. No respect, the verbal/emotional abuse, etc, leading right up to the affair. <P>My friends here are concerned for me because of my descriptions of the past 3 years and what it did to me mentally. <P>But I still believe that this is not the way my H truly is inside. Yes, he needs help, and he is getting it finally. What more can I ask for??<P>To all - Thank you for your posts and kick in the a**. I don't know what is the RIGHT thing to do. Just because I stopped the seperation does not mean that I am just jumping in and letting my H off the hook. It was a step forward that I took in order to show my H that I was serious and that I was in it for the long haul (and my way of showing him that I appreciated the things he IS doing for me). I asked him what he thought it meant, and he said he took it to mean that I still need him to show me some things and prove himself to me and that he has to do it fast. (don't ask me about the fast part, something about if he doesn't, then I will file again and he will lose his last chance...). Not what I meant at all, and I told him that, but I wasn't going to argue too much, hey if he wants to think he needs to do something fast, let him!!<P>I wanted HIM to SHOW me first, is that too much to ask? Yes, it was, because I wanted him to show me MY way. He has already shown me what I needed to see, he just did it HIS way. Now if we could just do it OUR way, I think we'll be just fine...<P>I've come to a better understanding of things since my first post. At first, I had just called the lawyer and I was just so mad at myself for giving in to my H and BELIEVING in him. All my fears, anxieties, and lack of trust came out in that post. BUT I CHOSE TO FACE MY FEAR instead of hiding behind it. <P>To hide behind my fear would be to keep the seperation alive and to use it as a lifeline. STOPPING the seperation was alot harder on me than it ever would have been to keep it going. I chose to stop it because I chose to face my fears and I chose to believe in my H again...<P>I still fear that choice (as many do), but I know I can live with whatever may come of it. I fear that it was the wrong decision, I fear that I will get hurt again, I fear lots of things, but as long as I don't get sent back to freakin' limboland again, I think I can deal fairly well with what lies ahead...<P>Thank you everyone.<BR>HbH