Well I am back from my time away. What a joke that was. All I did the whole time was pine over being away from my wife.<P> Last week I found a mans phone number in her wallet. When confronted she said it was for a friend of hers. PLEASE! My W still will not commit to anything. <P> One of my children came in and picked up the phone(while I was away)after my W had been talking on it. Child hit redial and a man answered. Child asked his mom who it was and she denied talking to anyone(this after children saw her talking on phone).<P> WHY? WHY am I having such a hard time just ending this marriage? It is clear that my W will not change, will not love me again, will not give up this new lifestyle. So why do I feel like I will die if I cannot save my marriage? WHY CAN'T I END THIS???<P> Everytime something new comes along and knocks me down it gets harder. Not harder to love my W. But, harder to 'not' go off the deep end and do GREAT harm to the people involved. I know where that will lead. So again I ask......<P> WHY CAN I NOT END THIS?<P> I would especially like to hear from WAT, RICK37, and H2Y.<P> jd

Well, I'm not the guys you wanted to hear from, but I'm sure they'll be here.....<P>It's because you love her, and you believe there's a chance to save your marriage - using the Harley principles of Plan A and Plan B. You've seen the success stories here, and you have enough hope in your heart to believe it can work for you.<P>You are not crazy. We are all here for those same reasons - or similar .<P> Keep hanging in there jd, and I look forward to seeing what those guys will tell you too.

J.<P>I feel the same exact way as you. I sometimes think it's just fear of the unknown. I don't want to even think about being with anyone else, being alone, being a single parent. I can't live with him or without him. I often feel like I'd rather die than make a decision.<P>I need advice too. It's been 6 1/2 months since I "bluffed" my H into confessing. It never seems to get better. I have been faithfully plan Aing, go weekly to a marriage counselor (with H), kids are in weekly therapy.<BR>But, I still fel like I can't move.<P>Sorry, I probably didn't help, although I know for me it really helps to know that others feel the same.

Yo, buddy... I feel your pain.<P>I've not been posting lately just because I haven't had the strength or the heart. Faith1's been propping me up via ICQ, but I feel very much the way you do...<P>Why?<P>My W continues in full force with her OM... Continues to give me less and less hope from her behavior... And yet I still want to work it out more than ever.<P>I did something kind of interesting this morning... I did a search for my oldest posts and read some of them. They go back to the end of June of this year... And I was amazed at how I seemed to really have a better grip on things then as opposed to now... What's happening to me? Is the lack of results wearing thin? It's very hard to not harbor expectations.<P>I'm like you -- I don't know why I am giving a @#$@.<P>I think it's because I am an inordinately loyal person. I am committed until she pries that ring off my finger. To use (poorly, I might add) some U2 lyrics, I'm "stuck in a moment and can't get out of it." I can't let go of the good moments with her, even though the pile of bad ones have long since overflowed and obscured the rest.<P>Sometimes it helps me to refocus by remembering that Plan A is NOT about changing the other person. It's just setting the stage for the possible return from the fog.<P>Let me think and I'll see if I can come up with something better than these ramblings.<P>About the anger -- another lyric comes to mind, courtesy of Stroke 9 (Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back soundtrack):<P>"How many people wanna kick some @$$?" ("I do, I do!")<P>Take it easy,<BR>zen

Thanks Faith, Louser, and Zen<P> It does help somewhat to know that others are feeling the same as I am. But when I strip that down I feel worse really. I would not wish this kind of emotional upheaval on the devil himself. That others have to go through this hurts as well.<P> Fath1, I am trying to hang in. It gets so damn hard to do though. I keep trying to pull myself up enough to look at this from the outside and all I see is more of the same. So why can't I just end it?<P> I guess that makes me a pretty weak person huh?<P> jd

(((((((jd)))))))) hugs to you, friend. <P>NOT a weak person at all, jd. Nope. You are doing the right thing, ya know? Weak for loving your wife??? No, sir. <P>Yep, it's hard as heck!! That's why we're here to help each other. We even know the right answers usually, but need someone to hold our hand or kick us in the rear. <P>You've seen Orchid's posts lately. I look at myself at least 6 times a day and ask myself why bother??? But I cry, pitch a fit, get depressed, and then somehow... and maybe it is plain-ole STUBBORNESS - somehow I decide that it's not quittin time. I can't give up on the person I love more than anything. YET. I will one day. His loss. But it's not time yet. But we all have our time limits.<P>How long have you been in Plan A? Harley says give it 6 months if you can..... then - you still don't give up - you move to a different plan. One that will inflict less pain on yourself on a daily basis.<P>Letting go - is a whole nother ball of wax, though. You said you wanted to "save your marriage". Well, technically that's why we're all at this web-site, but ACTUALLY, we can't save it. ok? I'm TERRIBLE at thinking every little move I make will make or break the whole deal. We are making valiant efforts to change ourselves, our attitudes, and love our spouses through their storms. We are gonna make mistakes, and we might blow it - yep. But at least we are giving it all we got - MUCH more than most people do when faced with our situations. But you do have to "let go", in a sense of taking responsibility for yourself, and not her.<P>soooo..... here's your goal.... Quit feeling like it all rests on your shoulders, and quit feeling like you will die if you lose her. I know that's easier said than done, but it's where you need to aim your car and drive. <P>You asked why you can't give up? It's because you're not ready. It's too soon. So don't. Have you done your best Plan A for 6 months? if so, think about Plan B. If not, come here and scream at the top of your lungs, and show your W the best you there is. SHe has to have a reason - safe, warm, restful - to come in out of the storm.<P>

J<P>The Problem:<P>We are "good" people who care about others. We stop & think carefully about our actions that effect other people. WE see the good in others. We want the good in others. We unfortunately "fall in love" with people who are unlike us. People who are selfich & sef centered. People who feel like they are owed something. <P>I believe this is something learned from childhood. It is a trait I encounter all too often. I think people can change...I hope.<P>If all the WS's could stop & think like us well.....

louser -- a brief disagreement....My H did not fall in love with a selfish or self-centered person.<BR>He turned me into one with 13 years of HIS selfish and self-centered behavior.<BR>Steve Harley calls it the "giver snap."<P>JD and Zen -- sorry for how you're feeling these days. Maybe its just a low point in the roller coaster. <P>

I'll throw in my 2 cents with Lexxxy...I know I did not marry a selfish or self-centered man. (Nor was I selfish and mean...in our case, we both failed each other a lot of times, but with good intentions always...fat lot of good they did!!!, both our giver's snapped, but I threw myself into hobbies/outside interests & he threw hiself into an EA).<P>However, despite marrying a good guy, for a while I had a very confused H who acted selfish and short-sighted. If I'd felt he was truly the person he was acting like at that time, I doubt I would have stuck things out. But, for many of us, there is hope that they will return to being the people we believe they really are (not the "alien" we so often joke that they have become).<P>jd-Are you still in Plan A? Maybe it is time to think about Plan B?<P>Kathi

Hi Lexxx,<P> Thanks for your input. However I do not think this time is a low point on the coaster ride. <P> Talked to my wife a few minutes ago and she is like well I am tired of fighting to save our marriage. Say what??? Sorry but she hasn't been trying at all. <P> Basically, when she gets home we will be through. All my energies will be pointed at making all the hurt and pain of the past few months go away.<P> Time to heal I think. I cannot go on like this any longer. To answer your question, six months. I found out (d-day)march 12. lol I have been so screwed up I often get that to come out may 12th. So yes I have been Plan Aing for close to 6 months.<P> jd

jd,<BR>What do you mean it will be over this evening? You're not going to do anything, please? Are you saying she's going to end the marriage? Are you ready for Plan B? That's fine. BUt that's your next step, not divorce.<P>Talk to us.... <p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited September 04, 2001).]

Hi jd. You know we all feel or have felt exactly where you are right now myself included. Yes it's hard, it's unfair and it just plain sucks to be the BS. Dont make any hasty decisions tonight. My 6th month of being separated will be at the end of Sept. and I decided that by then if my H hasn't made up his mind as to what he wants to do I was moving onto Plan B, that was until I talked to my counselor today and told him of my plan. He advised me to just take it day by day and see where we are by the end of Sept. he said I shouldn't set myself up like that. I know trust me we all know that it's easier said than done. As far as you thinking yu are weak that's not true not by a long shot! You came here looking for help and support that makes you a mighty strong man. Hang in there you are in my thoughts and prayers.<BR>cybil

Sorry to all those I may have offended. Seems like not matter what I say I get pissed on.<P>Kinda like my life.<P>Obviously this not the site for me.

Louser,<P> You did not offend me in the least. And, you were responding to my thread, so do not get down on yourself. I value your input just as much as any other person who is going through this crap. Reply to my comments anytime you wish.<P> jd

Everyone else,<P> I am going to post a new thread with the latest developments.<P> jd