I am struggling with something that maybe someone else has been through. My h tells me that during his affair (feb-may & Sept-Oct) that although he did everything else physically possible with this ow, that he never actually went "all the way" (penis/vagina). So here was my question to him " If you got that hot and heavy and you "pleasured" her and she wanted it so bad, how could you stop?" His reply to this was that everytime he got to that point he would think of me and feel guilty (good answer!) Or the other explanation was that he was sometimes to drunk to even get it up.<P>There were lots of overnighters and naked "roll arounds" etc. so do any of you think I should believe him? I am struggling with this because I feel he has been honest with me about all my questions about his affair. Even down to the gory details. But this one thing still lingers in my head and I don't know if I should be so naive once again to believe or not.<BR>What are your thoughts on a man's ability to stop at the crucial point?

It's certainly possible, tmdm, but more to the point: why does it matter???<P>I know that there's the question of complete honesty (which I wholly endorse). But from your point, are there any other issues?? If he's seemingly honest about everything else, and he's been exhibiting honesty in his current behavior, I'd stop obsessing about it.<P>

I guess it's because going all the way for him is the total definition of an affair and that he doesn't want to admit that part either because he doesnt want to admit it or maybe he feels like he's protecting me or something , that's all. I'm not "obsessing", just wondering.

Hi there TMDM,<P>I agree with "It is possible but why does it matter?" For the same reasons that <B>K</B> listed and this one...<P>They did everything but actual intercourse? Well, then they essentially did everything. I find most of the other things that go on much more personal and intimate then ordinary intercourse. <P>Fact is they had an affair and now it is over. His honesty is wonderful. Build from there. (I know easier said than done!)<P>Try to put her and what they did out of your mind and out of your relationship. I know how hard that is. I don't do well at it sometimes and it eats me up and I think Love Busts for him. <P>Whenever this question comes into your head think of something else. For me I have to recite in my head...I choose the "Lords Prayer" and the "23 rd. Psalm." <P><P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

tmdm:<P>I have to agree with K.<P>However, since you asked, let me tell you my experience. When I confronted W about her affair, she tried to get out of it by telling me that all they did was "fool around." Touching, kissing, petting, but no sex. I bought it for a few hours until my brain caught up to the situation.<P>I <I>made</I> her tell me the rest of it because I just didn't see her "stopping" before it got out of hand. I was right. She had told me the other stuff to placate me in hopes that she wouldn't have to confess the full affair.<P>I think you're right to be suspicious, but being demanding and insisting that he is lying will not help. You need to encourage him to be completely honest with you. If you want to know EVERYTHING, you have to find a way for him to feel comfortable enough to tell you.<P>For me, I assured my wife that I wouldn't leave her, that I loved her, and that I wanted to work out our problems. I told her in no uncertain terms that I couldn't tolerate dishonesty in this regard, and that if she didn't tell me everything, and I found out LATER that more happened, I would have a VERY hard time ever trusting her again. I think she got the point that it was safe to confess all then, becuase she did.<P>Perhaps, if you create a safe environment for your H, he will be willing to be totally honest. Keep in mind that he MAY be telling you the truth. You are right NOT to trust him now, but you will need to learn to trust him if your marriage is to rebuild.<P>I wish I could tell you how to do that, but it's something you need to develop yourself. You should see a counselor who can help you with this. It's VERY important, IMHO, to have the guidance of a professional.<P>Please keep us posted on your progress.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

My H had a brief affair that he says did not go all the way. It took me months to believe him, but I do now. I would not have done things differently if he had, although I have to admit, it feels a little better thinking he didn't.<P>My H's affair was about 10 dates to a stranger he met in a bar. So emotional feelings were minimal and did not build and catch "fire".<P>His past behavior, (dating before marriage) indicated he did not take sex lightly.<P>I think it was "the next step" and he walked away before he took it. I discovered the affair while he was walking away.<P>Could I be wrong? Sure. It was the only part of his story which did not change and he could look me straight in the eyes and consistantly tell me.<P>Since this was how he defined an affair, I think not having sex helped him justify whatever he was doing. After a few months I think he began to feel the impact of what he did and he was truly remorseful and did see it as cheating, even without the sex.<P>Hope any of this helps.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Yeah, really...does it matter? He did everything else under the sun...and that is cheating. He pleasured her, kissed, and whatever else with her. I don't understand why that would be so important to know if he did or didn't. Isn't the fact that he did all those other things with her enough to know that he had an affair?

tmdm: It would / does matter to me. I would care. Every little thing that happens matters. It shows how completely one has given themselves to each other. The emotional part was harder for me than the sexual. I think it matters alot.<P>Question is does it make a difference? Will it change the outcome? And do you really want to know? Sometimes I wished I didn't.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

TMDM:<P>It is very possible for him to be telling the truth. I have had similar experiences were I had a so-called emotional affair with some (alot)"fooling" around, but not "all" the way. Whatever that means. A couple of these types of relationships lasted a very long time and never went beyond touchy-feely, etc. Others escalated to "full-Blown" sexual relationships. All too often the final step into a sexually active (intercourse) affair signalled the end of a wonderful and exciting relationship. <P>But the real issue here is not whether penis entered vagina it is whether or not she is in his heart and he in hers. If that's the case then the P/V thing is of little consequence. It is still a very real affair and has to be treated as such.<P>Endless

TMDM:<P>It is very possible for him to be telling the truth. I have had similar experiences were I had a so-called emotional affair with some (alot)"fooling" around, but not "all" the way. Whatever that means. A couple of these types of relationships lasted a very long time and never went beyond touchy-feely, etc. Others escalated to "full-Blown" sexual relationships. All too often the final step into a sexually active (intercourse) affair signalled the end of a wonderful and exciting relationship. <P>But the real issue here is not whether penis entered vagina it is whether or not she is in his heart and he in hers. If that's the case then the P/V thing is of little consequence. It is still a very real affair and has to be treated as such.<P>Endless

Perhaps his guilt was so much that when it came down to it, he just kind of "petered out" when it came down to business. I think it is very believable.

I think it can be true. My H also said they never had intercourse. Not that it matters as far as me considering it an affair. The thing that I would like to know but don't know about how to ask in a non-love busting way is why he didn't. I know it won't change anything and I am probably better off not knowing. I guess I would like to think he didn't "go all the way" because he loved me...<P>Jaded Heart

Tmdm<BR> My husband says the very same thing to me. I dont know if I can believe him or not though because they spent the whole weekend together, in the same bed.He swears that he<BR> couldnt perform when it came down to it but that he did give her oral sex. He claims he couldnt even get it up for her to give him <BR> oral sex. In my situation I find it hard to believe, I mean I read the emails he had sent her,telling her how much he loved and wanted her.I asked her over the phone what they had done and she said everything.I dont know what difference it makes now, as far as I'm concerned, when they started sneaking around thats when it became an affair.Maybe your husband is telling you the truth, mine,<BR> well thats a different story.

I guess the point seems to be it's like digging half of a hole. You can't. A physical affair is a physical affair.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

tmdm,<P>I know what you are going through. In my first marriage my husband was the betrayer. He had been having an affair, and when confronted said pretty much the same thing your H is telling you "We didn't go all the way" Of course, I didn't buy it. I told him that if we were to have any chance at all of saving our marriage, he had to be honest with me...what I call Brutal Honesty. He swore to me that there was never any penetration. I could not accept that answer from him. He became the perfect husband (for about a minute) and we ended up divorcing. Only after the divorce did he finally tell me that he had indeed slept with this woman on numerous occasions, while we were still married. <P>So yes, I agree with you...it's important to know every detail. If you don't know every detail, you imagine the things that 'could have' 'might have' happened. And that just drives ya nuts. It is so much easier to deal with everything if you know exactly what you are dealing with.<P>Gabbie<p>[This message has been edited by Gabbie (edited November 11, 1999).]