I just can't believe it, she has been telling me how committed she was this whole time and I was feeling so much better. I was really feeling the love for her and I was getting over it, and starting to come out from under the dark cloud. I am in total disbelief and shock. <P>She is definitely not the person I thought I knew, and not the person I thought I was starting to know after d-day #1. She promised me there was no more to tell, and that she had told me everything. Now, she told me about the other 3 As and now she tells me that is it, there is no more to tell. How do I believe this? How can I trust her now that she has assured me that she has done nothing but be honest with me after d-day one, and I know now that she was lying the whole time?<P>I am so full of anger at these other As. I am angry that it was so meaningless to just give away sex like it meant nothing and our marriage ment nothing. I could never immagine that she could do this to me. I can understand falling into a relationship from a friendship, and that leading to sex. But, these 3 other As were just sex and nothing more. She never found sex to be a big EN so that isn't the reason she did it. I almost feel like she did it out of spite or to get even with me for some unknown reason. I have never done anything to her to deserve this other than be a faithful husband and love her more than life itself. She has been the world to me from the begining, and this is how she shows her love for me? I just don't get it.<P>For those of you that don't know, Keep Smiling and I have been in recovery since June 19, when I learned of only one A. All the As happened about 4 years ago. Three of the four happened within a month, and the fourth happened 6 months later. <P>Now I am afraid about the time I start to get over this she will land another bomb shell on me and break me back down to where I am now. Will this crap ever end, should I continue with our marriage? I know I love her, even though that feeling of love is just not present right now. I know I want to work this out, I just don't know if I can go through this again looking back at the past two months. I thought the one A was hard to deal with, and now this. <P>Ok I guess this was more of a vent, I am probably just looking for pitty, but it sure feels good typing my feelings Thanks for reading anyway.

SEM<P>I can totally relate. My DDay was Feb. H admitted a 1 night "almost" sex only 10 yrs ago & a one night fling 2 yrs ago. I was like everyone devated.<P>H swore that was it. I believed him. However, once you know that someone you had complete trust in has lied to you (and so easily) you start to think differently.<P><BR>Long story, short. It had taken H 6 months to confess to 4 A's all EA/PA over the past 13 yrs. 1 lasted 3 years !!!<P>I will probably never believe that was all there was. I could I ? How will you?<P>I keep writing over & over again...If they (WS) would only just tell it ALL from the start. Unfortunately they are cowards & selfish & don't yet understand the agony they will ultimately put us through.<P>I'm not sure I can offer any advice right now because I am in the middle of the same thing myself.<P>Just wanted to let you know I knoe how you feel & I feel for you. Good Luck

Thank you louser,<P>It helps to know I am not the only one dealing with this. This is very hard to take, after starting to get over the one A and BAMM I get hit with this. What makes it so hard Is I had to threaten to leave in order to get her to come forward with this, cause I knew she wasn't telling me everything. So do I believe this is it, I can't like you I don't know if I ever will.<P>

Hi SEM,<P>I haven't responded to you before, but I have been following your story the last few days.<P>Someone in another post said that your W may have told you because she felt she could trust YOU enough to deal with this. From my own experience, my H didn't tell me a lot of stuff because he didn't trust my reaction to it, KNEW I would never get over it, LB on him big time, and also he would hurt me. Also there was an element in him that felt I didn't need to know everything, so he kept secrets from me, which I found out about anyway, and this was far more hurtful than if he had told me. You have to remember that the logic of a WS is not sound, and to some extent, based on selfishness.<P>BUT, you ask how you are going to get over this. You have to want that. You have to look deep in yourself and find if there can be forgiveness and trust for your wife. And this is a process, it will take you some time to accomplish.<P>Let me share what happened with me. I finally came to a point that I knew the situation was not improving for me because I would not forgive or trust. Note I said WOULD not, not COULD not. It was tearing me apart, I was suspicious of everything my h did.<P>One day I had quite a talk to myself, which ended with the realisation that I could not go on with the marriage if I could not truly forgive. And I DID want my marriage. So, 8 months after D-Day, I decided to let it go.<P>But 8 months was too long for my h...he couldn't handle my anger, constant questions, suspicions, my fears he would do it again and all the rest. Two days after I told him that finally our marriage could move forward, because I forgave him truly in my heart, he told me he was leaving me. He could not trust me to stick to this after 8 months of living hell, for both of us.<P>The sooner you can come to terms with this and let it go, really let it go, the sooner you will heal, and your marriage too. I believe your wife told you all because she trusts you can do this. If you want your marriage enough, you will.<P>Just my thoughts...

***I keep writing over & over again...If they (WS) would only just tell it ALL from the start. Unfortunately they are cowards & selfish & don't yet understand the agony they will ultimately put us through.****<P>Speaking from the other view point; I will say it is REALLY hard to "just tell it all." I had an affair only with one man and only because I fell in love with him. Never would I have risked everything for just sex. For one, we DO understand the agony. So we want to keep as much from our partner as possible. "If they don't know, it won't hurt them." Maybe it is a twisted reasoning. But I know that I didn't want to say things that would only hurt my mate and not divuldge anything relevant. Also, for me, I was/am reluctant to give up details and information because it still feels like MINE. Though it affects everyone, it all still feels like something that I have a right to protect and keep secure. Also when you get used to lying for so long, telling the truth becomes difficult.<P>From what I've read, it seems honesty will come in time, as will the trust (it's a learned behavior). Until then, maybe there are some things you are better off not knowing.

I also had to threaten. Actually after DDay #1 I lost 15lbs in 2 weeks and ended up in the hospital for 1 week. I told H I wouldn't get better if he didn't come clean. He confessed a "little" more, but really down played it. After 2 weeks of "hell" I finally realized how much I didn't know my H of 16 years. I asked him to finally tell all...(I bluffed & told him I had info)He said he couldn't tell me anymore & he was drawing the line. If it meant our M was over than so be it. Too many people would be hurt by his confessing. Talk about "blowing you away" I only suspected (I never realized how dangerous a bluff could be)<P>We went to MC and our C said he needed to tell me if he wanted to prove to me that he was sincere about working on our M. He refused. I said I wanted a D.<P>The next day he sat me down w/ tears & confessed to the rest (?)...I seemed ok. 8 hours later I woke up in an emergency room drinking charcoal & hooked up to all kinds of stuff. I had tried to commit suicide. I ended up in a Psychiatric center for over a week. I had him leave before I returned home. I had him back within days & we've been on this crazy rollercoaster ride ever since. He has confessed more details, but not more A's. The details are just as bad.<P>I have a hard time believing him after all that. I tend to think he's a sex addict a pathological liar.<P>He's out of the house again...it's sooo hard, but I can't believe him anymore. Sound familiar ??<P>How long have you been married ? Kids? etc etc<P>Lisa

Nina too, <P>Thank you for responding Well, your post really hit home. I am sorry to hear your H didn't want to continue your marriage, that has to be hard to finally get through all this and have it end anyway. I thank you for your encouragement, it means a lot. I understand exactly what you are saying, and after a little more thought tonight, I am willing and committed to recovering my marriage. This is really hard right now. W and I had a long talk tonight, and we both agree that we will do this together. She too is hurting, and sad, and confused, so she too needs to get over this. <P>Snobird, <P>Thank you for your view on this, it is always helpful to hear what the WS is thinking on these matters. I know I would have a hard time telling my W if I had been unfaithful. I have a problem lying though, and I cant seem to do it, I just feel to guilty. I have never been able to keep a secret from my W. I would like to say I am proud that I have never lied to her, but I think it is more a weakness than a strength, I just cant lie to her. <P>Lisa, <P>I am 26, We have been married 5 years together 8, and we have two children a 4 year boy, and 2year girl. <P>I am sorry you have these same problems they are very hard to deal with. I can now say I have the t-shirt <P>It is kind of funny, before the news of these other As, I used to think I had it so easy compared to everyone else here on MB. I used to look at those of us that had multiple As and think how can they stay in their marriage, I couldn't do it. Now I am that guy, and part of me is saying how can I stay in this marriage, I just cant do this. I know now why I am staying, it is the same reason I was faithful for 8 years, and the same reason I married my W....I am head over heals in love with her.

That is it SEM,<P> I knew you would find the reason you needed. It will be hard for sure. But working together you and KS can make it and be happy. Once you both make that decision and then follow through, you can do anything. <P> Wish I could say the same for me <P> Hey man, my Chiefs are gonna kick all kinds of Donkey butts when the two meet. When do they play anyway?(sorry, couldn't resist)<P> jd

Snobird,<BR>Did you end up telling your H of your A?

snobird,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Speaking from the other view point; I will say it is REALLY hard to "just tell it all." I had an affair only with one man and only because I fell in love with him. Never would I have risked everything for just sex. For one, we DO understand the agony. So we want to keep as much from our partner as possible. "If they don't know, it won't hurt them." Maybe it is a twisted reasoning. But I know that I didn't want to say things that would only hurt my mate and not divuldge anything relevant. Also, for me, I was/am reluctant to give up details and information because it still feels like MINE. Though it affects everyone, it all still feels like something that I have a right to protect and keep secure. Also when you get used to lying for so long, telling the truth becomes difficult.<P>From what I've read, it seems honesty will come in time, as will the trust (it's a learned behavior). Until then, maybe there are some things you are better off not knowing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I'm sorry but this seems to be typical WS reasonong. How can you justify the continued pain to your BS? If A BS feels they need the information, ANY and ALL information should be given. Why can't WSes SEE that to keep these kinds of secrets is NOT helping the BS? In fact the WS is only ADDING to the pain and torment of the BS by not coming clean completely and honestly. <P> Why can't you see that a BS would have visions of the information that could and most likely would be far worse than anything the WS could say? You say you feel like the information is YOURS. Thing is, your marriage is not about ONLY you. Selfishness. Plain and simple. You think you are protecting us BS. Believe me when I tell you that you are NOT.<P> How can a WS ever expect that they would be trusted again if they are not forthcoming with everything? Let me say that you WILL NEVER be trusted if you are not answering ALL of your BS questions. Whether you WSes believe it or not, TRUST IS EARNED. Not something that you will ever get again, by hiding facts and giving half truths.<P> jd<BR>

Just a comment:<P>I don't think all BSs want to be told the nitty gritty. I certainly don't want to be. But if I ask a question then I don't want to be lied to. There's a difference. There's another issue and that is, that knowing the nitty gritty isn't going to help anybody, is it? It just hurts more.<P>From the WS perspective, I've learned that what they had in the A is (often) something very special. Something that the BS hasn't or simply can't give them. Why should they divulge the details. However, if directly asked a question it takes a lot of courage to say what's going on. You should have seen my W when I confronted her with the evidence. She was a complete mess.<P>Just some thoughts, that's all.<P><BR>

JD<P>So glad to hear that someone else thinks like me...<P>If my H had told me all that I know now I know it would be different...but now I just keep waiting for the "next" bomb to drop<P>Especially now with all this terrorism...<P>I asked my H if he were on the plane who would he have called me or the OW<P>Or How would he have felt if at any time he had been in a fatal accident & I found at his funeral about the A's because of the OW being there & crying for her lost "love"<P>YUK !! Can't WS see the "big" picture. It's so much more than the "here & now"...<P>Lisa

Snobird,<BR>Did you end up telling your H of your A?******No, SHE told him. But when he asked me I admitted it all. I wouldn't have told if things would have just quietly ended on their own. That type of ending probably wouldn't have happened. I know that this site promotes telling anyway, but I'm not totally convinced, yet.<BR> <P>I'm sorry but this seems to be typical WS reasonong. How can you justify the continued pain to your BS? If A BS feels they need the information, ANY and ALL information should be given.*********As in MY case; What continued pain? I had one and only one affair. He knows all that is associated with just that. THAT is the main thing that needs to be dealt with. I realize if there were multiple affairs, that should be addressed honestly. But in the beginning, H did ask me personal questions; "Was the sex great?" etc. I told him honestly and believe me he wished he hadn't asked (though I was careful with my reply). I don't rub in or even mention the fact that I still love Him. Why should I? I'm sure he knows feelings still exist, why torture him with that fact. The only thing I show to him is caring support and an honest effort to fix things. <P>Why can't you see that a BS would have visions of the information that could and most likely would be far worse than anything the WS could say?*****Actually me tell what exactly happened would only add color to his pain. In time his "visions" will fade.<P>You say you feel like the information is YOURS. Thing is, your marriage is not about ONLY you. Selfishness. Plain and simple. You think you are protecting us BS. Believe me when I tell you that you are NOT.******Do YOU want to hear the details of great sex? Or how about the night we managed to do it 5 times? Or maybe the details of the wedding He and I planned? NO, you don't. THOSE are the things that I say are MINE and mine only. I would be selfish if I aired all of that out.<P>How can a WS ever expect that they would be trusted again if they are not forthcoming with everything?****I don't expect to be trusted any time soon. But in order for H and I to go on, we have to give each other a little bit of slack in the lead. But if either one of us hangs ourselves on that rope, then the other one has the right to bail out.<P>I think it is far, far kinder to temper your honesty with discression. Know what are the important facts to deal with and try to stay away from the details that don't address any real issues.<P>Sorry for you pain, JD. <BR>

snobird,<P>you were right to keep those details to yourself. That's the kinda devastating stuff that nightmares for a BS are made of.<P>good luck,<P>

Ok, with all this talk about the whole truth, and what a WS feels they should and shouldn't tell the BS. I feel I need to add my perspective.<P>This is what I told my W and exactly how I feel.<P>I feel I married my W to be faithful and honest, and to share our lives together. When we married we gave up ourselves to become one with the person we love. Everything we do from the time we marry should be done for the both of you, to make you both happy, and to share your lives together. Sex is something that should stay between the two of you. It is a product or sign of the love you share. It also belongs to the marriage, or to both parties in the marriage. You and your body not only belong to you but to your spouce, your body no longer is just yours it is possessed by both of you. <P><BR>With that in mind, If you chose to go off and have an affair, you are giving part of your marriage away, if not all. You are giving part of your spouce away, his heart, his soul, and his trust. You are giving up something that doesn't belong to just you, you are giving up something that means a lot to both parties. With that, I want to know what was given, what was stolen from me. I want to know all the details to know what I need to get back, and what I will never get back. <P>In my opinion, when you are married and you have an affair, you are giving away something that doesn't belong to you, so you as a WS should tell the BS what part of us you gave away. You left us with no choice in what you did, so give us the truth to everything, so we can decide if you gave away the whole marriage, or if there is enough left to continue with the marriage. <P>I feel like my W gave away sex to these other men, but she also gave them my heart, my trust, my marriage, my life, my childrens lives, everything I know and want was given. My marriage is my life, my heart and soul are in it and belong to it, and I want every detail of what was given.

ok, well, this is a tough topic.. SEM, I thought I remembered you posting on H2Y's "secrets" thread a while back.... here's the link..... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/012165.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/012165.html</A> <P>I agree that everything should be discussed - if the BS wants to know. BS's need to really think and be sure what it is that we WANT to know - some of us need everything - some of us want all the details, but can we live without some of them?? We have to decide what we can live with or without. But I definitely think the WS should answer all questions - if they truly are ready to rebuild the marriage. This may take time, and will require patience from both spouses - perhaps for the WS to acknowlde the need for honesty, but that "now is not the right time". A delicate dance indeed between the WS and BS, but everyone should acknowledge that honesty and openness is VITAL. . <P>Questions, imagination, fears, doubt - can destroy trust and survival of the marriage depends on clarifing all these things for the comfort and security of the "inquiring minds wanna know" spouse.<P>What is most painful - as has been listed here - is when we the BS feel that we know the whole truth and nuttin' but the truth, and then MORE truth comes out later.... just spill it all so we know what we are dealing with. What are you scared of, WS? You committed these acts outside your marraige. If your BS is willing to forgive you and rebuild - APPRECIATE that and tell them everything. If they won't forgive you for the WHOLE truth and nuttin' but the truth - well, you wanted out of the marriage anyway, didn't ya?<P>so, face the music - put it all on the table - let the chips fall where they may - we're dealing with hearts, souls and minds here - real life. we owe it to be honest with each other.<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited September 13, 2001).]

Exactly SEM, Faith1.<P> I will add this....How can I forgive what I don't know about. <BR> I know, we can dance around the virtue of not knowing so why would I need to forgive.....Because when these things come out later, things the BS has already asked about and assured of, it totally ruins any trust that has been rebuilt. That's it. You might as well start from scratch. <P> I don't care the question. If I ask be honest and tell me. I have thought about it before I asked. If I didn't feel I could take it I would not ask.<P> And it doesn't matter to me(BS)if you have had 1 affair or 10. Get all that out of the way right from the beginning. I know you are scared, not for me like some WS say(maybe to some degree). I feel that you really do care and want to save your M or you would be gone anyway. So, I think you are simply not sure that you want to lose the BS right now. That is why you do not tell, you don't think we would want to stay and fix the M if we knew all the details. WRONG!<P> SEM and others are proof of that. As am I. To me there can be no worse pain than the betrayal you have already committed.<P> jd

SEM:<P>Your thinking is exactly like mine. I believe that is why it is so hard to go forward. I could never make such a mockary of my marriage as my H did.<P>My MC says it's a "loss of innosense".<P>I don't know what to do. <P>Luckily you are young. My H started his A's 13yrs ago when I was 28 with only 2 kids. How uncaring for him to "control" my life all these years. Now I'm 41 with 4 kids.

Well, thank you all for your responses.<P>Funny this turned from my feeling sorry for my self, into a very good topic, IMO. <P>I think I did leave one thing out that needed to be said. I probably should go back and read my posts, but just too lazy. <P>I think the WS made some major decisions in my life without me knowing about it, She chose to have 4 As, and I didn't have a choice in that, and yes it directly affected me and my life by its self and together with my W. That was even before I learned of the one A, and before I learned of the 3 others. It has done damage to our marriage without the details and truths out. Now, it is time for the WS to come clean and give me some choices back. I want to be able to chose if this is what I want, and who I want. I am the victim of her As and her choices, and I now want to be able to decide if I am married to the right person and the honest person I thought I was married to. <P>I didn't marry my wife for what she has done, but for who she was, and now I am learning I didn't really know who she was. So I want to know everything about who she is, and yes, what she has done in our marriage may affect the way I see her and how I see who she really is. <P>So, for all these reasons I feel that a BS should be given their choices back, and if they chose to hear the details however painful or damaging they are, the WS shouldn't have the choice to keep it from them. The WS should be honest for once and give us what we want to hear, and let us (BS) decide whether we want to continue our marriage or not. I don't want to continue my marriage if I don't know the truth, and if I don't know everything that was taken from me.

I guess I just had another thought... of course, we all know that in our Plan A efforts, part of the goal of Plan A is to create an environment in which the WS feels "Safe" to disclose information. We BS's must provide an environment free from Disrespectful Judgments, angry outbursts, selfish demands, and annoying habits. So we can let all of you WS's know how imporatnt it IS to us for YOU to be honest, but we also know how important it is for US to provide the right comfort, in our responses, questions, and mature communication of respect and trust. If we cry, scream, threaten, preach, put down, etc. etc. etc.... I don't blame WS at all for wanting to keep stuff inside...<P>