Found the name of OM #2(who was actually the first A). Found out where he worked called to talk to him. He is on vacation this week so they gave me his home phone number. <P> I don't really know why I did it but I called his home. OM was not at home. But his Fiancée' was and answered. I started asking to talk to him and she said he was out of town. I asked when she expected him back, and a couple other questions. She got suspicious of my questions and started asking me why I needed him.<P> I kept trying not to tell her. I did not want to give the pain I have had to this woman who is supposed to marry this guy soon. However I kept thinking 'here was the OM having an affair on his future W and getting away with it'. I could not have this happening to what sounded like a wonderful person. So I told her about her future H and my W.<P> She was extremely upset with the news of course. But she almost immediatly believed it was true. She was very polite and thankful that someone would tell her this before she married the guy. She was to call him where he was staying out of town and confront him with news.<P> I asked her to call me back and let me know how it went and if he admitted to what he did. She had not called for some time, so I got concerned and called her back. She was crying as the news had hit her. She had not talked to Fiancée' as yet but promised to call back as soon as she talked to him.<P> Well in the mean time I realized what was going to happen when he comes home. First thing he is going to do is talk to my W and say keep denying everything. So when W came in I decided I would have to confront her and come clean with spyware and knowledge of the A.<P> I stayed pretty calm throughout the first part of the conversation. She at first denied the whole thing, until I showed her what she had written to friend. When she saw the spyware she kind of freaked out. It was a major LB on my part but I felt I had to show her or she would find out in a day or so anyway. She tried to make everything my fault, and I did take responsibility for my part in spyware and failing to meet her needs prior to the As. <P> I told W that it would not matter that there was 2 As. I still want the same things as before. Her and I both putting 100% into the marriage. I could and would forgive this new A. She never told me one way or another what she would do, and I did not push her to a decision. I walked over and held her and we kissed and things improved vastly.<P> Right then OMs Fiancée' called crying. W answered the phone and heard her crying and gave me the phone real fast. Fiancée' asked, begged, to talk to W. She wanted some small proof that what I told her was fact. W would not talk to this girl at all(I was quite disgusted at this). So I asked her to tell me something, anything to help this woman. Wife looked VERY sad but would not say a word. In the end Fiancée' thanked me for telling her, and said that she didn't need to talk to W. Just hearing me asking W to talk to her was enough to make her know it was true.<P> W was very despondent after that, very sad. I am affraid I have opened up her demons. I am worried that she will do something stupid as she realizes what she has done to this couple. Our own marriage doesn't seem to matter to her at all. But knowing that she is the cause of this future couple possibly not making it is eating on her. <P> I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I hope it is in the right direction. I will not push her to make any decision about us at this time. I know I LBed big time on this whole thing. I truely felt that I had no choice. This young lady had to know about her future H.<P> Did I screw this up big time or did I do what had to be done to prevent this from happening to this couple later in their lives? I just felt so bad for her. I could not just let this guy fool her until it was too late, and they were married.<P> Ok, let me have it everyone. I fudged up right?<P> jd<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited September 13, 2001).]

I don't know JD, I could be wrong, but from what *I* understand, a love buster is a selfish demand, dishonesty, annoying habits, and an angry outburst.<P>How does what you have done fall underneath any of those categories? IMO, none of what you did falls underneath that--UNLESS your wife considers you trying to get to the bottom of her truths an annoying habit???? I don't see how that could be defined as a love buster. You are trying to preserve your love and the only way to rebuild after these affairs is to rebuild on an honest foundation.<P>Maybe others who have experience in Plan A will be able to tell you if what you did was screwing everything up. I just don't see it, personally.<P>Whatever happens between OM and his fiance is their business from this point. Sure, OM may contact your W and try to devise some scheme, but at this point, they both have to realize it's over with all the deception already.<P>I think you should just lay low for now. Let your wife process everything that has happened and give her some time out. & yourself--sounds like you need some time out from all this too. If I were you, I don't think it is necessary to keep contacting OMs house, I think one call is enough. Let them work out their own problems and perhaps now you and your wife can move forward in working out yours.<P>At least now your wife can quit the lies already... but from what I have been reading out here, this may not necessarily be the end of the WSs foggy, moose-worm brained lies, nor refusal to gaze into the mirror of truth. We'll see?<P>Keep your prayers going up! & I will too! *sigh* But no, I don't think it was considered love busting. The angry outburst, punching a hole in the door, yes, IMO that is definitely a love buster. Exposing the truth in a full circle, nah, not a love buster in my book?!

jd,<P>not sure you LB'd - that depends on how your wife reacted (or will react) towards you in the aftermath of all this and if you really have hard evidence that an affair was/is in progress. It sounds like you had. And it sounds like your wife knows it too. The only danger is in confronting your W and the OMs fiancee with assertions and/or suspicions. If this is the case then you may have a problem. <P>However, if you're sure an affair was in progress then there are some positives here - you've put yourself back in control of your own destiny. That's good. You've also given the OMs fiancee a chance at getting her life back. That's also good isn't it? You've also denied both your W and the OM the benefit of secrecy and therefore the ability to deny that there is a relationship. You've forced their hand so they have to confront the situation and start dealing with it.<P>But now you need to develop a plan of going forwards. How will you deal with your W, the OMs fiancee and the OM? As far as your W is concerned you clearly need to stay within the framework of a good PlanA but you also need to consider where this leaves your W and how she feels. Keep the communication channels open - talk, talk, talk.<P>As far as the OMs fiancee is concerned - I'd probably stay clear. She's going to want to forget your W real quick and therefore anything connected with her - which includes you. I remember talking to the W of my WSs H 4 years back. We talked two to three times on the phone and then I never wanted to talk to her again. I'd be civil towards her if I saw her on the street but I don't want to meet her for coffee and cake.<P>As far as the OM is concerned - he'll either call you to vent is anger or he'll stay clear. Depends on whether you are right or wrong in terms of your information on the A.<P>And finally, everybody has to take the responsibility and the consequence of their actions. And that includes you. You didn't ask for this, nobody deserves betrayal and it sounds like you#re dealing with it in the best way you can. <P>So, stand tall and good luck,<P>- Freddy.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 13, 2001).]

JD,<BR>I agreed with what the others have said. We cannot completely give up our rights to the truth, in an effort to avoid LB's. I just feel so sad, because it sounds like your W is exactly like my H, in that they can't come clean on anything until they are "caught". It makes it so hard to EVER establish trust again. I feel so badly for you, because you are being made to feel guilty and you are the one who wants truth. Nothing but truth. My H has done the same to me, but each time (last night was the most recent) another lie comes out, I find it easier not to take on the guilt of it. I have counseling in a few minutes (thank God); after this newest development with me and my H, I hope he has SOME sort of good strategy for me to get through it. I will be thinking of you and praying. Don't take responsibility for ANYTHING that you haven't done.<BR>MOM

Dear Jdmac1,<P>I do not believe you made a mistake, although I think you may be trying to "justify" your actions just a little. From your description, it does not appear that you placed the initial call with the intention of informing this OM's fiance of the A.<P>That said, it appears to me that the outcome was positive. Everything is now out in the open, and your W has been reassured that her "secret" will not turn you away.<P>I understand how painful it is to know that your W's "guilt" may be related to what she may have done to the OM's relationship, not your marriage. My H also had that initial reaction. <P>In one of our conversations after D-day #2, I commented that it sounded like his A was the OW's exit A, that their relationship was what convinced her that she was strong enough to make it on her own. OW had been married for a couple of years, was incredibly selfish, was disappointed in her H's financial support and refused to follow him to another state when he found a better job. By this time my H and OW were involved in an EA. After OW and her H separated, the EA became a PA. My H had never even considered that he had had anything to do with her decision to divorce her H. Pretty incredible, huh?<P>Sometime after I made that comment, my H said: "I think you may be right about the exit A. What was I doing? Here I am a 42-year-old man screwing up a marriage that was only a few years old. And you know the worst thing, I really liked the OW's H. He's a good guy. I don't think she ever really gave him a chance."<P>Although I wanted to scream: "AND WHAT IN THE H*** DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE DONE TO OUR MARRIAGE," I instead calmly said: "You are not responsible for OW's choices. You have interfered with their marriage, but she made the choice to become involved in a relationship she knew was wrong, and she made the choice to divorce her H." I then hugged him.<P>My H is now finally considering my feelings, not her's, first. However, as painful as it is to know that they are considering the impact on others, not you, that impact is positive. It is a realization that their choices have very real consequences. It is a realization that the fantasy - no one will get hurt - is just that, a fantasy.<P>Be prepared to be supportive as the realization of the pain she has caused begins to set in. You love her. As difficult as it is, I know you can do it.<P>Julie<P>

Integrity is what we are when nobody is looking.<P>You made a choice. That choice was to tell someone else the truth about a life altering decision they were about to make. One cannot make a total decision unless one has all the information to work with. Her *adulterous fiancee* was not about to give her all the information. Fortunately, for her, you were able to be honest and forthright with her. Now it is up to her and OM, whether or not they make it. At least, now she can make the proper decision, having all the facts about him, right?<P>You may have LB'd in your W eyes, because she is still not telling the truth, but did she not deserve to be spied on? Was she being *radically honest*? Was she being trustworthy? When do you get to feel free of her chains? I dont see where you did anything wrong jd, in fact, you may have saved another doomed relationship, and future MBer here. Be proud of yourself, and your motives. <P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

A mistake? From who's perspective?<P>From Fiance's? NOOOOO. I wish someone (ANYONE) would have told me that the man I was about to marry was cheating on me. He was having an affair that carried on to the early months of our marriage. I would have thanked God for you if you had told me back then!<P>From WS's? NOOOOOO. You stated facts in a non-confrontational calm manner. Maybe it would be a LB if you were disrespectful, angry etc. But it sounds like you handled it fine.<P>From OM's? well he might think so...lol....but who cares? Its his mistake, let him make amends for it. Not your problem.<P>So do YOU think you made a mistake? I don't!<P>

You get an A+ jd, you did everything perfectly. And this is why I have come to believe one should always reveal the truth to those in the dark (even as I tried my darnest to prevent my w from doing so to owh). The truth always stands on its own, and in the long run gaurantees the best outcome. Is very rare IMO for anyone to really consider the truth, revealed dispassionately, and without primary motive being personal gain, a LB. As for the spyware, well in the unwriten code of ws'dom we fully recognize your right, and expect you, to spy and snoop, we just act offended because it is a useful tool to counterract those efforts by the bs.<P>As for the other couple, the truth is always a perfect defense, you have done nothing to affect them, the truth was allready there....but what you have done is save (or at least given her the chance to run away) this woman from making a terrible life decision, you deserve a medal.

JD...<P>Hope your feeling better now that it seems that no one here really sees much "fault" in what you did.<P>You are a good person & I'm sure the hardest part was telling that poor girl & knowing the grief she will be in.<P>However, look at it positively, you may have saved her from a life of lies.<P>Cheaters stay cheaters until they completely understand the damage they do.<P>If it weren't such a "big" deal & he wasn't too "ashamed" of it don't you think he would have told her ?<P>That's 1 thing I wonder about. Do all these people the have extra marital affairs & date married people ...Do they ever tell their future spouses ?? Probably not. Is it our responsibility to tell their spouses ?? Probably not, but we will if we have the chance.

You did just fine! I think it is a huge reality check for your W as well.<P>Hang in there

jd,<P>Ok I just typed a really cool response thinking this OM you're talking about was the one your W was still in contact with, and after thinking about it I was incorrect.<P>So, with everything everyone else has said, I don't think I have anything to add. Other than I am glad you have told your W what you know, now maybe she will see that you are sill willing to work on the marriage even if you know everything....Hopefully that is everything. I think that may have been the reason your W hasn't come around, maybe she felt that she has done so much that you wouldn't ever forgive her.<P>Hey, and think the Chiefs don't have a chance against the Broncos, not even on a good day.

Thanks for your support everyone.<P> I really did not expect that most would think I did the right thing. EVEN THE WSes. WOW!!! I feel much better about bringing everything out(including the spyware).<P> I do not know what the next few days and weeks will bring. I do know that I still love my W very much. <P> I will continue to work for the saving of our M. I hope and pray that she does awaken, so to speak, now that supposedly everything is out in the open. Well everything except details. Whether anyone thinks it is right or not, I do need and can get over the details. <P> Thanks all. <P> jd

Hi JD,<P>IMHO, no LB. Your intention to talk to OM. He was not available. Would I have wanted to know if OWs H called me? Yep..... would it make me cry? Yep. Would I be mad at the BS who called? No. Would I be hurt? Yes. <P>An LB? This is when hurt is done with the intent to hurt. Did you LB the OM's fiancee? No, she said thanks for telling her. Did you LB your W? No, because you were not talking to your W, your actions were towards the OM or OM's househould (OM's fiancee). <P>Logical deduction? Probably. Make you feel better? Maybe a little. Will your W feel better? No. Is that ok? Yes. <P>Now you can see how much your W is interested in recovery. Can't sit on the fence on this on WS. Hm....... Repercussions are coming either way. JD, you will see something..... maybe not all good but definitely something. <P>Have you rocked the boat? Yep. Did you need to? Well you thought so. Now you all get to live with the results. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Even if the worse thing happends (W's D on you), it is better than living on the fence. Limboland is not a fun place to be. Also, you may have saved another person for being married to an OM. <P>JD, I would not consider what you did a mistake. It is a hard lesson to learn. Would your W have learned this without your intervention? Not sure......only W knows this one and maybe even she would not know. Point is, is that the course has been set for movement. Now it is up to her and OM on how they will have to answer for their actions. <P>JD, take care of yourself. Now step back and watch. This could be a bit rough but you will survive it. So don't beat yourself up. Part of how you can help your W heal. Bitter pill to swallow but it can have a happier ending if all work towards it. <P><BR>L.

JD,<BR>It may have been a LB, but you did it for your M. Just like my H, I am now glad that he did what he did. I know it had to be done so someone could save our M. I don't blame him for one bit. In fact, I wasn't really ever mad that he did it.<P>Stay strong. Our prayer's are with you both. Sherry

Thanks O, and KS<P> To be perfectly honest I was more worried about W finding out about the spyware than finding out I contacted(or tried to contact)OM. The spying part was a LBer for her. She did get very upset that I used it. But today was pretty good. We had talked some, were friendly, and will likely be intimate later this evening. <P> W does not want to give details of this A just as she did not want to give details of the other one. I will Plan A with gusto from this point and maybe she will give me details later. No pressure from me. <P> As for OM and fiancee, I will back off anything to do with them. UNLESS fiancee asks for my help or support. It will give me great pleasure to confrot this,ahem, gentleman. I did mention this to W and she did not seem to mind if that were to happen. Almost as if she gave me a green light to confront him. I told his fiancee I wanted to do this but would not if she asked me not to. She told me she would not ask me that. If he did it he deserved what he gets. But I have decided to let fiancee be the judge of that. If he continues to lie to her I would do it. I know, I know, wrong move on my part if that happens. But......<P> jd

wow. this sounds like good news! hmmmm.... you are on the right track, I believe. Plan A with gusto! You can do it!

Jd,<BR>I agree with Faith. Keep up the great news.<BR>I hope this good news gets better.

My God, JD, I am proud of you for performing a real act of kindness to this young lady. You may have saved her from a life of hell with a dishonest cad. At the very worst, she will now know what kind of man he really is and if she does stay with him, it will be from an informed position AND not from ignorance. I only wish someone had been decent enough to tell me the truth about my hubby BEFORE I married him. <P>I think you did good in bringing all the truth to the surface. Now maybe you can get somewhere in this situation.

Hi JD, I applaud you your efforts loudly!! I think you're actions were justified. Your wife will realize that with truth comes freedom. <P>Good luck.