Firstly, God bless our country and all who have lost, sadly it's not over yet.<P>Unlike the thousands of people who lost loved ones, I have a choice if I loose mine. In my past posts, I was trying to justify my A, now I know it was all me, and I need to get over it.<BR>BAck in June I left my H for the OM.(Basically, I didn't intend for it to go that far, but it did)I moved to another state to be near my family, and the OM was close. After we started to see each other, I felt it was wrong and wanted to go home, but H wouldn't let me stay in our home with him.It only lasted 10 days and my withdrawls from the OM were so bad and H was being so controlling of the situation that I moved away again. H thought we could go through counciling living apart, I thought we had to live in the same home to make it work. Now I'm back in another state, only a few miles from OM, trying to put things right. <BR>I just read the articles about infidelity, I can see where I went wrong in not staying away from OM. But on the other hand, H wouldn't accept any responsibility for the A, and uses it and everything in my past against me. He claims to want to work it out, but I feel these are just words.<BR>Now I know what I have to do, no contact with OM, no pictures of him, nothing.But I need help with the withdrawls,as well as staying totally away from him.Would it be right to try to talk H into letting me back in our house to help me with the great temptation I feel every time I think I need OM?I have never been addicted to anything in my life, I don't know how to get past this alone.I know we can work this out if I have his support and he would stop bringing up my past and using it against me.Should I have him come here and read some of this so he can see I need help?<BR>I don't believe it will be possible to not see OM here because it's a small town.I can't afford to move again, this mess has drained my resources, and my H hasn't been too good about getting me my child support.I either have to try to do this alone here, or move home.Is my H right in not letting me live with him? Can we go through marriage counciling like that???<BR>

As the BS I'm glad you are trying to work on your marriage. I do have one major problem with what you wrote though. You said that <B>"H wouldn't accept any responsibility for the A"</B> No offence but he shouldn't accept any responsibility for it. He didn't make you do it, you chose to have the affair. The marriage may have gotten bad, bad enough that you felt that an affair was what you needed. But, you could have chosen not to have an affair or you could have divorced your H first. <P>The affair is all you! Accept that and I think you will make a good step to helping him recommit. He should not use it or your past against you, I agree.<P>Please don't take this as a flame. I just get upset when I hear WSs say that the affair is of any responsibility of the BS. It isn't!

2fer,<BR>As a BS, I would have to agree with sad. I don't think that your BS NEEDS to take any responsibility for what you have done.<P>I personally took some of the responsibility in my WS's A. I realize that I didn't have to, but our problems stem from years of separation because of my job.<P>Accept the responsibility for your own actions. There is only one thing in life that everyone MUST do, everything else are decisions, right or wrong, that you must be willing to accept the consciquences for. You can't have the best of both worlds. Pay your taxes, you won't get fined or put in jail. Don't pay your taxes, the gov't will hunt you down, make you pay the taxes, put you in jail, and make you pay a fine.<P>I'll step off my soap box now.<P>I wish you luck. Make the right decisions, and you will soon get back what you want.<P>Pops

2fer,<P>Your honesty here and baring your soul is commenable. There is a lot to be learned and done to get back to where you were before. You want to be better than that though right? <P>Is your H to blame for your A? No, you are. But was your H to blame for the breakdown of your marriage? Well, it takes 2 to tango so probably. <P>Most Ws's take a long time to get to where you are (mentally and emotionally). Your H won't let you move home? <P>Well, what is his reasons? Is he willing to work with you? Is he getting help to be able to recognize when his help will be valuable for the both of you? <P>Finally, you are having a hard time <<<<hugs>>>>. Will it get better? Yes. In the meantime, know that it could get a bit harder before you feel relief and even then it will be slow but it can be progessive. <P>Don't give up. You are now having to fight for your family. Do your part to restore trust between you and your H. If he is not ready to recognize anything on his part, then let it be for the time being. <P>Trust me on this point. Why? Because many BS's have had to do the same to their WS's. It does not feel good on either side. Whoever does not to cooperation (on either side), will hinder the recovery process. <P>So be there and be patient. Vent here when you need to. Let us know when you need to talk. It is not an easy road but it is a well worn one. <P>Take Care,<BR>L. <BR>

I do take full responsibility for the A, but H is using it to make me the whole cause of our problem, like he never did anything wrong since what he did gradually deteriorated our bonds, and what I did did it in one lump sum. He feels I can't put any blame on him since I can't come up with one huge glaring thing that he did wrong, like the little things didn't count.<BR>As for him not letting me back home, he doesn't trust me, which is exactly what Dr Harley says he should do. I need help getting off my addiction. Being away from home is like an alcoholic being made to live above a bar. I am within minutes of the OM, hours from home.I feel that even though I broke it off with the OM and am trying to get on the right track, the temptation is there and if I get weak, he will be here for me when H is not, and I don't want to fall backwards again. I need H to not trust me, monitor me, make me feel like he wants me to succeed in kicking this addiction. H claims to want to help me in any way, as long as I don't live with him.I can't see going to MC living apart.How do you work on the marriage apart?<BR>Thank you for your replies.I need help being strong, I've been the strong one helping everyone else all my life, now your here when I need it!

I think he doesn't trust you, apart from the betrayal of the A, is that you are still in close proximity to the OM, he probably thinks you and OM are having a right old time together there...<P>I suggest you move close to your H instead....get away from the temptation. Harley's suggest this, and since you are willing to move back to H, the move to a place nearby is just as good at the moment, will get you away from temptation, put you in proximity with H so you can try to depositi in his love bank, and Plan A and also I think it would make a BIG statement to your H.<P>Worth thinking about?

<BR>Dear 2fer:<P>I can understand your feelings in this situation....but being a BS I understand where your BS is coming from.<BR>I think he's saying he's willing to work on the marriage but not until you have given up OM...and that's understandable. The problem is that having been on MB for over a year and having seen so many of our WH on here dealing with the agony of withdrawal, I can see how difficult it is for you....your WH can not...to him the choice is clear...either you want him or you want OM...the choice is yours...he can't really see how you can want both and know that you must make a choice....and that choice is like giving up a vital part of yourself to come back to something you're not sure is going to work because of your experiences in the past. <P>But I think Nina is right...by continuing to live some distance away from WH and in the same environment as OM makes a statement you probably were not aware you were making to him...we BS learn to watch for what the WS does as opposed to what they say...and what you are doing is saying "I want to be near OM" even if you are not really feeling that (and you don't know that in your fog that is not what you are feeling). <P>So forget about going home...you made your choice when you had the affair and took the chance that this would be his reaction...just be grateful he is still willing to work on the marriage...move back to be near him...show your re-commitment to the marriage. Men particularily have a hard time dealing with OM in their wive's lives. <P>I think with your continuing commitment to rebuilding (and this will be blind commitment at first...because you cannot expect him to do much changing until he can begin to see that you are sincere in your commitment to repair the damage you have done...irregardless of his contibutions or faults in the breakup of the marriage) you may begin to see a willingness to open himself up to you again. He is willing and that perhaps is all you can expect right now.<P>Certainly if you could get him to come to MB and read some of the WS's experience it might make a difference in his attitude and make him realize how difficult this situation is for you and how he might be able to make it easier on you by being there for you through this withdrawal period.<BR>But don't expect it too soon...it takes time to work through the anger. This best thing in the world for him would be to come here...but it's hard to convince them of that. <P>If you can get pass withdrawal, MC should begin to help to forus in on what the marriage problems were (on both sides) and begin to deal with them...but that is for the future...you have to deal with what is right now...and it's really in your court right now.<P>Faye <BR>

I agree, I need to make the next move, but I don't have the money to move. it's the 15th of the month and still no child support(lost in the mail...)<BR>I have given up the OM completely, but I can't afford to get away myself.I want to.<BR>H and I had an agreement that neither of us would take any legal actions without first telling the other our intentions(such as child support,custody,divorce) this morning he informed me he has filed for divorce, the second time he has disregaurded this agreement! I know what I did was wrong, I'm trying to get him to understand my need for help, and he continues with his little white lies that brought all this on. I must be banging my head against the wall!<BR>I guess if I can't count on his honesty, we won't be able to do this. How can he expect me to be honest, while he isn't? Isn't that wrong?

Hi 2fer:<P>It's part of the anger....forcing the issue by filing for divorce...or by threatening to file...hold strong...tell him you don't want a divorce...you want to work on the marriage.<P>Don't get hung up in the truth thing...it's not the time to expect him to abide by what he says...such it would be nice and the "honorable" thing to do...but in his hurt and pain he may not be capable of dealing with it any other way then to lash out at you to vent.<P>Please...please...please...remember that to him "you" are the infidel here...and all bets are off...you should have no expectations of honesty, fidelity or support...you traded those away when you had the affair. I'm not saying this is how he will always feel...but for now you have to deal with it if you want your marriage back....deal with it and except it for what it is...the backlash of your having the affair and his pain from it.<P>Let him experience his pain and his anger...he needs this...and be understanding of it....but at the same time...firm in the belief that you can get pass it and that you are willing to do what needs to be done.<P>As for moving back near him...if you don't have the money...explain this to him...that you want to move back to be nearer him and try to work this out...but that you may need his help to do so...don't let him assume that you are staying because of anything to do with OP. This is going to be hard for you in the face of his anger...but in a way dealing with him and his righteous anger (in his view) will serve to convince him of your sincerity in wanting the marriage back. Certainly running or getting angry in return in the face of the first test (filing for divorce) will not convince him of that.<P>Just like we WS learn...let your expectations be low right now and let time do its job and just hang on tight.<P>Faye<BR>

You can't afford to move-<P>Talk to H about this and ask him to help you move back in a set amount of time. Explain to him that you've made a huge mistake and you want him closer to the kids and yourself to remedy the situation. Plan A and B are going to have to be combined efforts in your situation.<P>He says he filed for divorce-<P>You mentioned that this is the second time he disreguarded your agreement. What did he do the first time? <P>It also seems to me your H is still very angry and hurt by your A. Put yourself in his shoes....... We each handle situations in different ways. Your risk of this A was losing your H. That may have to be one of the consequences you have to face is your H chooses to go that route. It may happen. It may need to happen, from your H's view point, in order for him to start his recovery. The more there is to resent the longer the resentment lasts.<P>You know what you did was wrong-<P>I am glad you are feeling guilty for your A. It shows you have shown some remorse and regret. This will benefit you and your H. On the other hand, are you only feeling this way because of your withdrawal symtoms? Now that you have cut all contact with OM, if that be the case, you are feeling lonely like never before. Do you really want your H back or is all of this fog talk? Withdrawal talk?<P>If you do want your M back, then some radical changes must be made. <P>He continues with his little white lies that brought this on-<P>What little white lies that brought what on? Your A or this current venting post? Take responsibility for your own part in all this. Your H must take responsibility for his part. Yes, you two are both to blame for the break down of the M, like someone mentioned in an earlier post, but you had the A. Your H didn't do that to you or force you to, did he? <P>Be honest about what? You are not being completely honest with him, with yourself, or both? Your H is confused just as much as you. Once again, you have to help your own confusion and your H must help his by asking and answering the pertinent questions. You both have to make choices and then act on them. Then you come together with compremise and agreement. It is your choices that conflict cause his choice may not be your choice. Time is the tie breaker.<P>Two wrongs don't make a right. This is one situation where pride must me put on the back burner. No judgements or demands can be made. Your H will look at it as if you are feeling some sort of justification on your part for your A and get defensive. Plan A is your weapon and Plan B is your H's. By all means necessary, DO NOT LOVE BUSTER!!<P>Conclusion-<P>2fer, until you prove yourself to him, you may have to face the fact that he will never want you back in the house. So, then you have to make the choice to continue to work on the M outside the house, but in close proximity to your H. In time, if your husband so chooses, slowly but surely, results will turn in favor of your M and you being back together as a family.<P>So, no more banging your head. Just act. 'Practice what you preach...Actions speak louder than words'. Your word has no clout with your H right now because of the A. It is your actions that will catch your H's eye.<P>Just put a proposal on the table and wait for a reply-<P>For example, maybe you should just say that you know you both have alot on your plates and together you both have things to think about. You should apologize once again for the A and then tell him you take full responsibility for your actions. You know it is hard for him and you don't blame him for how he feeling. (You in his shoes)<P>Then say, you think it is best that the time apart and space...give you some perspective, but you would like to be closer to him. Not just for the children's sakes, but for the M sake too. Ask if he would like to give it a chance to just see where things went wrong; stay seperated but just see so that atleast, God forbidden, if it doesn't work, you both know you did everything in your power to try. In proposing that, ask him to help you move closer to a agreeable place. Ask him what he thinks about it and then when he has time, to get back with you with his thoughts.<P>You see, 2fer, you can't make him feel rushed and he must feel, with complete confidence, that your A with the OM is over and there is no contact WHATSOEVER.<P>Whatever you choose to do, all my best wishes and prayors are with you. Have patience, be strong, and ACT.<P> Clouds <BR>

Clouds,<BR>"You mentioned that this is the second time he disreguarded your agreement. What did he do the first time? "<BR>The first time he went to talk to a lawyer about trying to take the kids from me. He doesn't want me to drop any legal bombs, but at the same time he wants the element of surprise on his side.<P>"I am glad you are feeling guilty for your A. It shows you have shown some remorse and regret. This will benefit you and your H. On the other hand, are you only feeling this way because of your withdrawal symtoms? Now that you have cut all contact with OM, if that be the case, you are feeling lonely like never before. Do you really want your H back or is all of this fog talk? Withdrawal talk?"<BR>Surprisingly,I felt lonely the first time I cut it off with the OM,I had a pic of him, got lonely,stared to look at it, and BAM! The addiction was back in full swing, I did all I could to convince myself I had to get back to the OM.<BR>Now it's been 3 days and I know that's not long, but I feel better.Maybe even relieved a little. I don't long to see or talk to him,I don't even miss his friendship.I'm sure if I did get weak or lonely I'd consider contacting him, but for now I'm holding my own.I told H I needed his help to keep from being tempted to contact the OM.I know I shouldn't evpect him to be able to relate to that, but I feel he needs to know.<P>"What little white lies that brought what on? Your A or this current venting post? "<BR>The ones that pushed me from him. He promises alot, but doesn't follow through. In result I would feel resentful, if I said anything to him, I was "nagging", so I learned to deal with everything myself. Eventually we quit talking, which was a terrible loss since we used to talk for hours on end. While I was mad at him, I totally forgot all the good times, all the times we were best friends. That's why I feel we can salvage this and be even better.<P>One thing I am trying to do right is to be calm and not LB.He is the type to lash out,take anything I say and turn it arround to use against me. He says terrible things. I know he has every right to be hurt and angry, so I am trying to overlook this right now.But this does make it hard for me to open up to him 100%. I fear he'll use anything I devulge to him against me in the future.I guess that's a chance I'll have to take right now.<P>I have one possibility to move closer to him, I can let him have the kids and I can get a room somewhere. I'll loose alot of money on deposits and furniture, and I run the risk of loosing my kids if he won't try to work the M out. That's the part I'm not comfortable with. I need to be with my kids and I wouldn't be able to go on if I lost them.<BR>I can put aside all my pride and pay my debts, but I never want to loose my kids.<BR>I have tried to explain what happened to me to him, but I think he thinks all this stuff is bullsh*t right now.<P>As for choosing between H and the OM, there is no choice.I can't even see why I left H.It wasn't the OM's fault, he didn't talk me into it, I wanted to be talked into it.H made the comment that he wished he knew what the OM said to talk me into this A, I wish he knew, too. Then we'd still be a family.I know he could learn if we had a chance to work with a MC and talk it out.I also need to get help myself, I tend to run from a bad situation.I want stability in my life, I want to be reassured that everything will be alright,bad times will be overcome.I am not as strong as I try to make out I am, I need help.<P>Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond to my post!<P>

Buffy,<BR>I thank you for your insight about him filing for divorce.That one really threw me for a loop. Hopefully he was just threatening me.If he actually did do it, I'll just have to deal with it.<BR>Thanks also for giving wise words to start dealing with my end of this deal.<BR>I am hanging on.

2fer,<P>You have seemed to make up your mind that staying put is your best bet.<P>I am trying to read between the lines. Have you come clean with what you really want? Do you want to be married and do you want to be married to your H?<P>I think while going through withdrawal, asking your H to be part of it is too touchy for him. Your H is going through some real issues of his own. From the way you sound, it sounds that your H has chosen not to make the M work? What is his whole outtake on your M and its recovery? <P>It also sounds to me like he has not forgiven you yet nor is he ready to let it go. As far as LBing goes, he has no right to say degrading or disrespectful things to you either. I am glad you are trying not to LB and hopefully Plan Aing too. Being that you guys are in the midst of a Plan B, I think you should focus on you right now and let your H focus on himself.<P>If setting precautions is what you have to do to protect yourselves is what you think you should do, do it. Just don't tell him you've done it or he'll look at it as a LB just like you're looking at what he did as a LB.<P>Plan B is all about working on self. You should be focusing on what it is you feel you need. Unfortunately, that OM was not it. Figure out your needs and think back to why you married your H? Analyze your whole life so far and go to town on what needs fixing. <P>Become your H's friend. Mail things to him, e-mail him, write him letters, and send pictures to start some sort of a conversation line with him. Only call him regarding the kids and money issues. Call and ask how he is doing sometimes but nothing else. You be the one to say you have to go cook, run errands, deal with the kids or are gonna let him go and hang up the phone-EVERYTIME. If he is LBing, you will have to take a stand on it. I think Dr. Harley says something about this in his resentment section.<P>I know this is hard and that it hurts. I also know what you are going through with the withdrawal. Write in a journal and post here as much as possible at rough times like this. Focus on you and your kids. Better yourself and your financial situation too just as a precaution. Read, read, and read!! You came to the right place for help. NO CONTACT WITH OM!!!! 3 days is good but not enough. <P>Hang in there!<BR>Clouds<BR> <BR>

Clouds,<BR>Yes I have made up my mind I want to be married to H. I have told him everything I've learned here this morning. Either he'll use it against me or he'll start to see I mean business, I want to do all I can to recover our M.<BR>As for staying put, it's not my first choice, but I really don't want to let him have the kids and turn that against me, one of his favorite phrases to accuse me of is "abandonment",and he'll swear on a stack of bibles I had abandoned them if it would serve him.I don't WANT to abandon the kids, I would just be letting them go back to their old school and home while I convince H we can save the M, but I'm scared to death he'll use it to his advantage. Then I'll have to get a lawyer to get them back,and I'm not financially prepared for that fight.<P>As for his outtake, he said this morning he doesn't want to be married to me anymore. He believes the A was the end of the marriage. We've had problems in the past, but none this drastic. Now he's talking to all his "friends" and their telling him things about me and the past, and he believes everything he hears. Now the "friends" are getting their kicks, starting trouble, and H and I are paying for it.<BR>But he did say he'd talk to me more about it, guess he had to confer with his friends first.He never knew a M could recover from and A.<P>Thank you for your advice, I'll just try to give it time.Try to be friends with him.<BR>If the risk factor goes down in any way, I'll try moving closer to him, at least for the kids sake. He talked me into leaving my D with him, and I believe this was a grave mistake, but he won't let her go. I don't like my kids being split up.I should have never agreed to it. But he haad her convinced she would be happier with him (He can afford to do things with her that I can't)<BR>Thanks again.

Hi 2fer:<P>If I was guessing I would question whether control was a problem in your marriage. Was it?<P>After reading your later posts it struck me that rather then anger what you H is expressing is loss of control....of you...of the situation. Is he taking hard line positions with you hoping that he can feel in control again? First thing he did was check on having custody of the children...the lawyer probably told him this would probably not be possible...as long as you continued to be a good mother. Now he's trying to control the situation by initiating the divorce....and treatening you with it.<P>This control thing is an extention of his pain but also could be a major source of problems in the marriage. Some men don't like to not be in control...it's against their nature...and the wife having an affair seems to be a situation totally out of their control. The question about OM leading you into the affair was interesting...as if you didn't have a mind of your own.<P>I anticipate that you will be pushed to the limit by your H...in punishment, for retribution...if you can hang on I think he may eventually realize what he will be giving up and mellow out a little. If you can managing to maintain your cool while he goes through this then there may be a chance to put it back together...but he definitely needs to work on his control issues...I think. Am I wrong?<P>Please keep your kids with you..even if you can't move...the power of being able to hurt you by having the kids and not giving them back is too great a temptation in his frame of mind...and can be used against you (especially against a women) if the worst comes to divorce.<P>I wish I thought there would be an easy answer to all this but I don't see any except time and your continued commitment to restoring the relationship.<P>Faye<BR>

Faye, <BR>You are exactly right. In '98 we had problems, I moved out and sought counciling.I was told I was in a controlling relationship, possibly to the point of abuse. He found out and DEMANDED I never talk to those people again.( It was a womens organization) So I then suggested MC. He went once, found out we BOTH had done things wrong, and said it wasn't for him.He convinced me that I was never abused, he had never hit me or called me names.So I moved home, no further counciling.<BR>Now with that planted in his head, he quickly came up with a story that I was the one that was being controlling, this time.He said I tried to take control of the checkbook and business.I did, but only after he blew it off so much that the bills were getting late, for no reason but laziness! As I said before, I learned to deal with things myself for lack of help. He is a master of turning things arround.<BR>I DON'T want control.I'd like to be able to focus on ME and our kids.For years I did all our bookwork,did a fair portion of the work for the business,and did 99% of the house work, shopping,laundry...I am a natural giver,probably to a fault.During all these years,we did alot together recreationally, but he also persued recreational activities regularly on his own and with his friends.All this I agreed to,even the trips for several days,I simply didn't need his help, I didn't get it anyway. But I believe I must have built up resentment at not having anything to do myself.The computer was then my outlet, I could work on it in my "free" time, at home, without his permission.I learned alot about it, a friend got me into a chat room, and some poor, lonely guy found me interesting and fulfilled my need to be told how wonderful I was, and for being reassured.After time(I don't even recall when it all started,it wasn't a big event)I got curious.I met him once to take a pic for a friend he had online that wanted to see who he was, then I was hooked.I'm not one to try to fool arround behind H back,I don't lie well. So I moved out, feeling that somewhere there was someone that appreciated me. I kept contact with the OM through out this, and moved near him.Had I been worried about my M at the time, I wouldn't have done it, but I was letting my taker run things, I guess.I was selfish.<BR>Anyhow, now I'm rambling. But that's a brief history, I think you hit the control issue on the head.<BR>Thank you for reading between the lines.<BR>I'm probably in for a long fight, hope I don't wear down.<p>[This message has been edited by 2fer (edited September 23, 2001).]

Bumping...