Things are not getting any better between WH and I since d-day 3-29-01 we are nearly at the 6mos.point. I'm so frustrated and resentful I think it may be time for me to move on to Plan B. This weekend we went to N.Y. to see my father in the hospital we had a decent day yesterday. Today the kids had games so that takes up a good portion of the day. He met me at the game sits behind me but doesn't talk to me acts like he doesn't want to be bothered in public. He puts on this facade like doesn't want people to see that we can get along. As soon as I left middle D game I'm at the grocery store and my cell is ringing and he is asking me what I was talking to one of our friends about she and her H and my H use to be really good friends and hang out now we just don't have the time and she was unaware that we were separated. She commented on how much weight I've lost. I've always been fairly slim but when you lose 25lbs people notice. She ask if I was okay and I told her that H and I are S. she was shocked said she couldn't believe it and that she thought we were one of those couples that would be together forever. Surprise! So did I. Anyway he wants to know what I told her and I said the truth. Why is he so worried about what other people think of him? Earlier today he told me that he can't move home because he's not in love with me. I said no because you are in love with someone else. Of course he ended the conversation by hanging up on me. Remember my WH is the one who still denies everything EA and PA because his so called friend is a married woman still living w/her H. I can't do this anymore. I think it's time for some tough love Plan B here. My middle D wouldn't even talk to him today. She says H is a jerk. I am not putting anything in her head I know H loves the kids but he is not putting them first. He wants to be alone then I think it;s time for that to happen. I know it's not going to be easy for me because I'm the one who is not consistent. Please I need some advice.How do I plan B with kids? I know I will have to talk to him regarding the kids or money. If I didn't have to rely on him to help with the finances I would be okay. U even took off my weddng ring today because I've had enough of this fence sitting, limbo land, bull****, whatever you want to call it. Tomorrow I see my counselor. Doesn't matter what happens WH is not coming home. I think I need to move on and I am so scared to do that. The thought of being alone for good, being a single parent seems so overwhelming to me. My H knows that I am not good at no contact. I really need some advice/encouragement. Thanks<BR>cybil

Hi Cybil,<P>Got you post and wanted to give you a <<hug>>. Oh yea, they can admit because of the OW being married? Typical fogese logic. So you are telling the truth? He is angry?<P>So was my H. Angry that everyone knew everything. I said, that is not true but if he would like me to, I will start telling more people. H thought I was bluffing so he sort of dared me. So I did. The neighbors on either sides are closer to my parents age. I told them because they watch out for me. They already knew something was arye. <P>I then gave H the option to go tell people himself. Hmmph.... such a good thing he and ow are doing. Ya know? Real love all that malarky. The bottom line is that they were embarressed about it as they should have been but are bulies to the BS. So I deflated the bullies and called their bluffs. Sent out a lot of questions with no answers. OW is great at jumping to conclusions so it was easy. It was not lies, they were questions of which the answers were questionable. Ex: Is OW engaged in drugs? Why? Her traffic in and out of the country was similar to patterns by known drug trafficers. Did I know for sure? Her travels to Asai, yes. I did know the pattern of some drug trafficers because of some info I received. No big secret stuff, just info. Enough to make you wonder. Oh, there was much more. <P>The point to all this Cybil, is if he is afraid of what others might think, this is good. This means that a part of his conscience is still working. That is a positive sign. However, the road back to a healthy conscience is long and hard. Be prepared for that along with your children. Plan B is hard when children are invovled. I did not do a 'good' plan B but enough to get H's attention. If I did a better one, maybe he wouldn't have waffled so much, not sure..... <P>Here's a note: I kept plan B limited to contact allowed for financial matters, mail and child visitations discussions. It was hard. But one of the noticeable highlights came from OW. She almost immediately told H to watch out for me because I was getting 'cold and business like and that I must be up to something'. <P>Wow even OW noticed a bad plan B. Of course, H started talking about coming home in about 2 weeks. Even sooner but I am not counting the babbling. It also started LB's between OW and WS almost immediately. All that with a bad plan B. Can you imagine what a good one might have produced?<P>Hope this helps. Just remember be safe and be careful. <P>L. <BR>

Orchid thanks for the insight. I know it's not going to be easy and I'm sure there will be many times that I will want to pick up that phone and call him. Sometimes I just wish that I could turn this around and do a role reversal just so H would know what it feels like. I'm so predictable and reliable and responsible that he knows I would never do anything out of the ordinary. Maybe that's what I need to do. I can only hope that I can stick to this. It may be a litle easier because like I said middle D doesn't even want to talk to him and lately she's been saying things like "Daddy doesn't care" or "Yeah he says he's only a phone call away." I know I've made it to easy for him. Do I want to save my M? I'm not even sure of that anymore. Thanks again orchid.<BR>C

IMO, there is no such thing as a perfect plan B when you have kids that are not adults yet. <P>One of the 'tough love' strategies I did with my H was a fairly strict visitation schedule. When I had seen a lawyer back when my crap all started, he gave me a copy of standard visitation guidelines based on the ages of the kids. The schedule is based on one parent having primary custody (which would be you from what I understand), and it lists the suggested hours/days for visitations typical during a separation or divorce. If you would like to know them, just let me know the ages of your kids, and I'll post it on this thread for you, k?<P>Basically, this is one way you can knock some reality into your H if you want to. If he truly wants to separate, then he ought to know what some of the consequences of his actions will be.<P>If you are ready for plan B, then you know it. Whatever your decision is, you know we're here for you.<P>Karen<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Topie25 (edited September 16, 2001).]

Thanks Karen. The ages of the kids are 7, 11, and 17. I feel as though I have to do something bcause this situation is going no where. If he wants to be separated and alone then he's got it. He's had nearly 6mos. to do something constructive like at least go to counseling either with or without me and he doesn't want to do that either. Now I'm done with his waffling I must make some decisions.<BR>C

cybil - first, thanks for your response to my post.<P>Second, ditto Orchid and Karen.<P>Re: Plan B. Have you demonstrated your Plan A improvements? Even though I didn't do this, I now preach that Plan B should be implemented whenever the Plan A improvements have been demonstrated AND a physical separation has occurred. You may meet this criteria.<P>Please consider crafting a Plan B letter. Even if you aren't ready to send it, just writing it seems to help many BSs sort out their feelings.<P>One question. I do not know if you considered contacting OW's H. Perhaps you have valid reasons not to, but with the implementation of Plan B, you should send a copy of the letter to OW and, in this case, perhaps an information letter to her H. Plan B is a big step, so there's logic to doing a few other things at the same time.<P>Remember, although Plan B is primarily for your protection, it does have an impact on the WS and the most bang for the buck comes on the heels of a final period of pristine Plan A. So, start your pristine Plan A push now - NO LBs!!!<P>WAT

Thanks WAT. No, I have not contacted OW's H at this point because I do not have enough evidence YET. I have been very patient in doing this because OW has convinced her H that I am crazy. Imagine that. I went to see my counselor today and he says I shouldn't implement Plan B yet. He said I should back off a little by not contacting H when he calls or comes over just be very nice no LB's no venting to him. Geeze I just don't know how much longer I can stick to Plan A when I see no effort on his part. Thanks for the advice Dave I really appreciate it.<BR>C