Some observations and comments for some of you regardless of which side of the infidelity you are on.<BR>Dr. Harley has indicated in various articles on the subject that affairs rarely lead to marriage and that 25% of those that do end in divorce. I really have no idea whether or not these statistics are correct or not but I will take his word for it. <P>I think it is safe to assume that when men have an affair (I use that term to describe a sexual relationship outside of marriage) they may have no intention of ever leaving their spouse and family. It is just that - an "affair". If a woman has an affair, however, it is in all likelihood because her emotional needs were not met and she was very depressed in her marriage. She does not usually enter into an affair lightly. She probably really believes she is "in love" with the other person. She is more likely to leave her spouse although it is extremely painful especially if there are children involved. Now if the love interest of hers is married too and does not leave his spouse, then she will return to her spouse usually and try to work it out.<P>But what if the love interest leaves his spouse, proceeds with the legalities and is adamant that he wants to spend the rest of his life with her? He says things like:<P>"I love you forever"<BR>"You are the love of my life"<BR>"I will love you until the day I die"<BR>"I cherish you, adore you"<BR>"I love you unconditionally"<BR>"I have never been so much in love before"<BR>"Even if no intimacy, I will love you forever"<BR>"You are such a treasure, a gift"<BR>"You are so beautiful"<BR>"I will always be there for you, no matter what your decision"<BR>"I will always be waiting in the wings for you and will never love another again"<P>What if these are not just "words" - he has shown it in his actions.<P>What if the feelings are mutual? What if she is married to a verbally and emotionally abusive spouse (even though he is a Christian) who has a created dissension in the home with his behaviour to the detriment of his wife and children?<P>OK now a couple of observations:<P>The effect of divorce on the children - always painted very negatively and I am sure in some cases, it is. However, I know personally of a situation where two people began an affair (through work), both left their spouses of 10+ years, both had children, they ended up marrying. The wife became a well-known author, her daughter (from the first marriage who was 10 at the time of the divorce) became a leading television commentator and the husband became a supreme court judge. In this case, the children seemed to fare much better (certainly financially) and socially through the divorce.<P>Often from the pulpit we hear tbe story about David and Bathsheba and the effects of adultery on David and his children. However, in my opinion, God was more angered by the murder of Uriah. Also David's children were not necessarily all wayward because of the adultery. One of David's first wives, Micala (daughter of Saul) had a "Jezebel" spirit and usurped David's authority. She mocked him. Such attitudes will cause spiritual disobedience in the children. Also David had many wives, many children and didn't have time to father them all properly. There was a lot of sibling rivalry. Can we honestly say all of the turmoil was caused by his adultery?<P>Now, remember this is what you don't hear from the pulpit. The illicit union of David and Bathsheba produced one of the greatest kings of all time, Solomon. So good came out of the union. God's grace prevails despite sin. If David and Bathsheba had never gotten together, would there have ever been a Solomon.<P>If Henry VIII had never began an illicit affair with Anne Boleyn, we would never have had a Queen Elizabeth I, one of the greatest rulers in England's history.<P>I am not condoning affairs, I am simply making some observations that are often overlooked or neglected when looking at history.<P>I listened to a program on WDCX the other day on children of divorced parents, and all the pain, etc. that this caused. Two individuals, now both either psychologists or counsellors, products of divorced families, spoke on their feelings and problems because of the divorce. However, both individuals appeared to have achieved success in their lives, were obviously alot more intuitive when it came to relationships in their own lives and were more mature about such matters. I thought to myself, well these children, although did have pain, came out pretty well, despite the premise they are trying to accomplish with this program. Also I noted that some very important information was left out of the program; did these children have regular contact with their father after the divorce; did either parent remarry; did the father provide child support; did they have a relationship with the step-parent? We heard none of this so I wondered about the sincerity of the program.<P>Obviously children that do not see their father and end up living in poverty because of lack of child support suffer a great deal more than most.<P>But we all know of people, famous or otherwise, whose parents were divorced and they seem to be quite successful in life in all aspects, perhaps even more so than those of us who lived with 2 parents who were very unhappy and did not teach us much about relationships, either in words or actions. <P>My parents stayed together for 35 years, then my father left - said he hadn't been happy for many years. Well what was the point of that? What does that show me and my siblings? That you should stay together until your children are grown and then leave because the pain will be less. It wasn't less but it was much more confusing at that age. At least if he had left a lot earlier it would have given both of them a chance to meet someone else and remarry and then I may have had a relationship with a step-parent. <P>This is what I say to women who are in an unhappy marriage; if your husband does not treasure you, cherish you, love, honour and respect you, he is breaking his vows that he made at the altar. Never mind "adultery". That is not the only way to break the vows. People forget about all the other vows and focus on the adultery. Adultery can be forgiven and should be forgiven if the "wayward" spouse repents, gives it up and wants to rebuild. The other broken vows are much harder to rebuild. If your husband is not prepared to love you as Christ loved the church (i.e. honour, respect, cherish, treasure) then you don't have a marriage. Either you do something about it in rebuilding, going to counselling, reading - if you want to and are committed to the marriage. If not, then you need to set some boundaries. As a wife, you are entitled to be loved, cherished and respect and your emotional needs met by your husband. You should demand that. If he is not willing to provide you with that, he has broken his vows and you need to move on (I don't necessarily mean divorce) but you need to do something to change your life. Don't settle for anything less. You deserve to be loved and cherished. <P>TO the husbands:<P>Read Malachi 2:13-16. "You cover the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping and with groaning...Yet you say, For what reason? Because the Lord has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant."<P>Divorce is the result of dealing with your wife "treacherously" i.e. not loving her as Christ loved the church (honour, cherish, respect, treasure, love). An affair by your wife is the result of dealing with your wife "treacherously" as well.<P>If men could love their wives this way, more marriages would stay together, women would in turn love and respect their husbands; it would be easy for women to do this and meet their husbands emotional needs. But the husbands have to take the first step in the hierarchy of spiritual authority.<P>If you don't love your wife, someone else will.<BR>

<B>This is what I say to women who are in an unhappy marriage; if your husband does not treasure you, cherish you, love, honour and respect you, he is breaking his vows that he made at the altar.</B><P>All so nicely said, FFG. Yes, there are many ways to fail your spouse and often the affair is not the first or even worst transgression. Good advise for all of us. Appreciate it.<P>Sno<BR>

Your observations are biased and onesided. For every sucess story you could find for children of divorce you would likely find two or more where the child is an emotional wreck. Child may be sucessful, but money is NO indication of a healthy individual. <P> Marriage or relationships are NOT a onesided deal. If you or anyone else believes this is so you will continue to have problems. Yes MEN are supposed to do all the things you list....BUT, so are the women in marriage supposed to do these things. We are ALL supposed to love our spouse as ourselves, because our spouse IS supposed to be a real part of us.<P> You post verses from the Bible to support what you say. PLEASE read MORE of what the Bible has to say on the subject. From the standpoint of BOTH man and wife. Believe me when I say that you will find much more than something that can be percieved as onesided. <P> Marriage is NOT about how our spouse treats us without regard to how we treat them. Marriage IS TWO-SIDED. Got it?<P> jd

Bump for your reply, and others.

FFG,<P>You said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She probably really believes she is "in<BR>love" with the other person. She is more likely to leave her spouse although it is extremely painful especially if there are children involved. Now if the love interest of hers is married too and does not leave his spouse, then she will return to her spouse usually and try to work it out.<P>But what if the love interest leaves his spouse, proceeds with the legalities and is adamant that he wants to spend the rest of his life with her? He says things like:<P> "I love you forever"<BR> "You are the love of my life"<BR> "I will love you until the day I die"<BR> "I cherish you, adore you"<BR> "I love you unconditionally"<BR> "I have never been so much in love before"<BR> "Even if no intimacy, I will love you forever"<BR> "You are such a treasure, a gift"<BR> "You are so beautiful"<BR> "I will always be there for you, no matter what your decision"<BR> "I will always be waiting in the wings for you and will never love another again"<P>What if these are not just "words" - he has shown it in his actions.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have a question: Is this the kind of man you would want to be with??<P>By your very definition this man must of violated every marriage vow or he wouldn't be having an affair. It is clearly his fault. Your biblical references suggest that you could and should never marry a divoced man, because clearly the failure of his marriage was due to him and him alone.<P>I am reading between the lines here, but you seem to be justifying your own affair by your H's behavior. Pretty normal and often seen on this site. But, you will accept the same behavior from OM.<P>However, it is hard to argue with the idea that an H should treat his W well. I agree completely. However, I would suppose that the W should do the same.<P>But, if you like your logic, stick with it whole heartedly. You will find no men available to you except seriously flawed and failed men, and clearly they don't meet your standards for men.<P>As for the children issue, well the exception doesn't disprove the rule. The data is very clear and becoming clearer as the PC revolution of the last decade or so dies down. Divorce hurts children and it scars them. They may rise to great success but if you look closely they often have relationship problems, unless you don't consider affairs, and divorce a problem.<P>FFG, please do some more reading of the material here and the Bible. There a few passages left that just might be of help to you.<P>Just remember one thing: THERE IS NO PANCAKE SO FLAT THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TWO SIDES.<P>God Bless,<P>JL